Getting Merciless Butchery up and Running?

[ShroudedInLight]

Merciless Butchery wrote:

Prerequisite(s): Dastardly Finish, sneak attack +5d6, studied target class feature.

Benefit: As a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, you can attempt a coup de grace against a cowering, helpless, or stunned opponent that you have designated as your studied target.

So merciless butchery got changed at some point and now takes a standard action to activate instead of a swift Booo which means it now is much harder to trigger. I think it still works if you manage to land a Stunning fist during an AoO, but I'm unsure of whether or not I'm reading stunning fist correctly.

Regardless, with the action economy seriously hammered, how do you activate this feat effectively? Is there some method, either through AoO, move action, immediate action, free action, or swift action to set up this feat? Or is it too situational now, and just a worse version of throat slicer?

[nighttree]

Dotting.....

[SheepishEidolon]

ShroudedInLight wrote:

Or is it too situational now, and just a worse version of throat slicer?

Merciless Butchery works with two-handed weapons, against cowering, stunned or helpless foes and doesn't provoke an AOO. All these things set it apart from Throat Slicer.

And I guess it works best if you have some partner who throws some stun or sleep effects at the enemies...

[Claxon]

I think triggering cowering, helpless, or stunned is more difficult than anything else, the standard action instead of swift just means it can't be easily combo'd with Stunning Fist anymore.

Any combos I can think of to make a target cower or helpless is feat intensive enough that you might as well just make a grapple build with throat slicer. I'm actually working on a character currently that will pickup throat slicer since he will be able to go from grappled to pinned in a single round. Next round attempt to coup-de-grace.

[ShroudedInLight]

Claxon wrote:

I think triggering cowering, helpless, or stunned is more difficult than anything else, the standard action instead of swift just means it can't be easily combo'd with Stunning Fist anymore.

Any combos I can think of to make a target cower or helpless is feat intensive enough that you might as well just make a grapple build with throat slicer. I'm actually working on a character currently that will pickup throat slicer since he will be able to go from grappled to pinned in a single round. Next round attempt to coup-de-grace.

This was pretty much my thoughts on the matter, and why I compared the feat to Throat Slicer. Obviously, throat slicer and Merciless Butcher have their differences but throat slicer has ease of access down pat which could make it more viable. When the game gives you the ability to Coup, it is pretty much the focus of your build. Throat Slicer is not only easier to qualify for, but also easier to proc thanks to Grapples being easier than Cowers or Stuns to inflict.

Still, is there any way to activate Merciless Butcher that doesn't take two rounds?

[Rysky]

.... have the Monk in the party stun your target?

[Kris Verschaeve]

ShroudedInLight wrote:

Throat Slicer is not only easier to qualify for, but also easier to proc thanks to Grapples being easier than Cowers or Stuns to inflict.

/QUOTE]

And because ease of qualification => ease of outsource => action economy: if you somehow manage to make a grapple build that does the tie up in a single turn involve a familiar or animal companion, giving your furry friend throat slicer and you just saved a full turn...

[Kris Verschaeve]

Merciless butchery in one turn V1

Get an animal companion (3 feats) on the slayer / rogue (accelerated Sneak attack progression)

Animal companion must be strength based and have bludgeoning attack. get the cudgeler chain completely on the A C (bludgeoner, cudg style, cudg sweep, cudg takedown. can be done at 9th

Animal companion : charges and forces a stun (full round action)

You study (swift action),

You stroll (move action)

You coup de grace (standard action )

You whistle something sinister (free action)

[nighttree]

I had this feat on my list for my RMA build, but now I'm rethinking it......looks like it's to difficult to set up....

[Rysky]

Rysky wrote:

.... have the Monk in the party stun your target?

Or someone in the party who has access to hold person or some really strong fear effects.

[ShroudedInLight]

Having two people spend actions on Merciless Butcher is terrible, Kris has the right idea.