Season 8 Roleplaying Guild Guide


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1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Agile Breastplate is 400gp, in the APG.

Scarab Sages

Serisan wrote:
The issue here is that none of the things mentioned should require any Fame. Everything is on the Always Available list.

But this sort of thing happens a lot. Seriously, we have 4 methods of purchase: Gold+Always Available, Gold+Fame, Gold+Chronicle Sheet, and Prestige Points.

Shadow Lodge

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John Whitaker wrote:

I would guess that the issue was "Agile" is not always available.

+1 Mithril Breastplate would be OK but not with Agile added in to the mix.

Agile isn't an enchantment; the base item is Agile Breastplate, which is a type of non-magical armor from the APG and UE that is basically a breastplate that with a lower ACP for Climb and jump checks.

So it's an Always Available mundane armor, made of an Always Available material, with an Always Available enchantment.

5/5

SCPRedMage wrote:
John Whitaker wrote:

I would guess that the issue was "Agile" is not always available.

+1 Mithril Breastplate would be OK but not with Agile added in to the mix.

Agile isn't an enchantment; the base item is Agile Breastplate, which is a type of non-magical armor from the APG and UE that is basically a breastplate that with a lower ACP for Climb and jump checks.

So it's an Always Available mundane armor, made of an Always Available material, with an Always Available enchantment.

To expand on this example, the +1 mithral agile breastplate is always available, per the above. Making that same armor +2 mithral agile breastplate then does have fame requirements because a +2 enhancement is not always available. For that you calculate the total price of the item, 400 gp (agile breastplate) + 4,000 gp (mithral) + 4,000 gp (+2 enhancement) = 8,400 gp, thus requiring 27 fame.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If one were to buy it in one lump sum, you would be correct... I think?

However, if someone bought it just as +1 Mithril Agile Breastplate, does a character need the fame to cover the cost (5400gp) or is it 'always available'?

I was told by a GM that Fame limits even 'Always Available' purchases. If this is incorrect then that could be due to the confusing nature of this beast, or why I am seeking clarity.

4/5 ****

Fame does not limit Always Available items.

4/5 ****

Things you can buy in PFS:

#1: Anything on the always available list
#2: Anything on your chronicle sheet
#3: Any legal item costing under 750/150gp by spending 2/1 prestiege
#4: Any legal item under your fame limit

Chronicle sheet and boons may include additional purchasing options.

1/5

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


If one were to buy it in one lump sum, you would be correct... I think?

However, if someone bought it just as +1 Mithril Agile Breastplate, does a character need the fame to cover the cost (5400gp) or is it 'always available'?

I was told by a GM that Fame limits even 'Always Available' purchases. If this is incorrect then that could be due to the confusing nature of this beast, or why I am seeking clarity.

The whole point of always available is that they bypass fame requirements.

4/5

Pirate Rob wrote:
Fame does not limit Always Available items.

In fact, if they were limited by Fame, they wouldn't be Always Available.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thank you very much for the clarification.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


If one were to buy it in one lump sum, you would be correct... I think?

However, if someone bought it just as +1 Mithril Agile Breastplate, does a character need the fame to cover the cost (5400gp) or is it 'always available'?

I was told by a GM that Fame limits even 'Always Available' purchases. If this is incorrect then that could be due to the confusing nature of this beast, or why I am seeking clarity.

Always available items don't have fame requirements, but for items that DO have fame requirements (Like whenever you want to upgrade to +2), your fame will need to cover the ENTIRE cost of the item, not just the portion that you are currently paying for. In your example, had the GM been correct about needing fame for the armor, he would have been incorrect in allowing you to split up the purchase as a means of bypassing fame requirements.

Sovereign Court 5/5

My reasoning for upgrading to be more clear is when I went to look on the forums I found two different answers to my question "Can I upgrade a rod of lesser metamagic feat to a rod of metamagic feat?". Then when I went to the guide to figure this out, I was still unsure whether I could or not, and if I am unsure and I have been doing this for awhile, I am sure a new player could be frustrated at this as well.

I also like to occasionally check behind myself to make sure I am doing things correctly and when I last tried to do that I could not easily find all the rules and procedures to do that in a timely manner. I would just like the guide and the clarification documents to be able to answer most of my questions.

4/5 5/5

Torrquan: You can't, see FAQ

And I agree: this should be made more clear in the guide.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I do not see a metamagic rod as a named item.

4/5 5/5

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FAQ wrote:
Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

My opinion: It does not include a +X value: no upgrading.

Again: clarification required because it is not obvious to everyone (no attack, I might very well be wrong)

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Have to agree with Magabeus on this one.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

In general, lesser cannot be upgraded to normal, cannot be upgraded to greater (Though it would be nice if it could be.)

A less clear case: Can you upgrade a headband of int +4 to a headband of Aeriel Agility +4? (+4 int + fly 1/day)

Or a belt of Strength +2 to a Minotaur Belt (+2 strength and ignore difficult terrain on certain maneuvers.)

The Exchange 5/5

The FAQ outlines how you can upgrade magic weapons, armor and wondrous items with a +x numerical value.

Metamagic rods are Rods (not wondrous items, weapons or armor) with no +x numerical value, so they don't meet any of the allowances to be upgraded in PFS listed in the FAQ.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I'd like to have "named" item clarified. I remember asking Mike Brock abut this a while ago, but never received an answer. Below I've included a few examples. These are not to argue if any of them could be upgraded, but rather different examples of things I've heard called the definition of a "named item".

From a Chronicle Sheet:
Elven rune-cloak (price varies): This diaphanous cloak functions simultaneously as a cloak of elvenkind
and a cloak of resistance. To calculate its price, add 3,750 gp to the market price of a cloak of resistance. You may upgrade the resistance bonus to saving throws granted by the cloak following this same calculation (e.g. upgrading an elven rune-cloak’s resistance bonus from +1 to +2 costs 3,000 gp).

Difficult to tell, as it does note that it can be upgraded, but is that because, despite being a "unique" item, it otherwise fits the upgrading rules or because it's an additional special provision in the Boon? Personally, I'd lean towards the former.

Gamin the Mis/Reforged:
GAMIN THE MISFORGED
Aura faint transmutation; CL 5th
Slot none; Price 7,015 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
Alignment neutral good; Senses 30 ft.
Intelligence 10, Wisdom 11, Charisma 10; Ego 2; Language speech (Common)
DESCRIPTION
This glittering blade is clearly defective, and a rippling break runs from its tip to its hilt like a crack in a broken window. Gamin is a +1 allying mithral longsword with the permanent broken condition, and when held he can cast guidance on his wielder at will. Only a master swordsmith might repair Gamin’s imperfections, and the Pathfinder Society does not have access to such a resource at this time.
CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Magical Arms and Armor, guidance, magic weapon

Outside of the upgrade being a second Boon down the road, and it also being an Intelligent Item, this is probably the closest thing Pathfinder has to a traditional "named" item, (ie, Excalibur, Sturm's Brightblade Greatsword, or Bilbo's Sting).

Assassin's Dagger (CRB):
ASSASSIN’S DAGGER
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 9th
Slot none; Price 10,302 gp; Weight 1 lb.
DESCRIPTION
This wicked-looking, curved +2 dagger provides a +1 bonus to the
DC of a Fortitude save forced by the death attack of an assassin.
CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, slay living; Cost
5,302 gp

And here is where the grey area starts to come in. It's a +2 dagger that also adds a +1 to poison DCs. The main issue is that if this is a "named" item, well the two other specific weapons directly above it, (the Adamantine Battleaxe and Adamantine Dagger) are also "named" items, meaning you can't ever upgrade a non-magical Battelaxe or Dagger that just happens to be made up of Adamantine into a magical weapon. We can also easily follow that road to any Adamantine weapon following the same rule, which clearly is not correct, as we see magical adamantine weapons a plenty.

Celestial Armor:
CELESTIAL ARMOR
Aura faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th
Slot armor; Price 22,400 gp; Weight 20 lbs.
DESCRIPTION
This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that
it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its
presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor
check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%.
It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on
command (as the spell) once per day.
CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fly, creator must be
good; Cost 11,350 gp

The first time, a few years ago, I ever really saw the topic discussed in PFS revolved around this item, and as far as I recall it was officially ruled that you could not upgrade a +3 Mithral Chainmail armor to a Celestial Armor due to the fact that Celestial Armor calls ou it is made of Silver and Gold, (or at least looks like it). That's a little bit of a different topic, as the point was upgrading an otherwise allowed item into Celestial Armor, but, where does that leave Celestial Armor itself as far as being able to Upgrade. Sort of falls in the same spot as the Assassin's Dagger, including the difficulty of it almost immediately following the Specific Armor "Adamantine Breastplate" right there in the CRB, and we obviously know we can upgrade Adamantine Armor into magical Adamantine Armor.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

The special material non-magicals are in the CRB so you can find some in a randomly rolled loot hoard, not to serve as some kinda precedent for magic item rules.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

The point you are missing is trying to define just what a named magic item is. Traditionally speaking in the context of gaming, a named item is simply something like "Muser's Rapier". It may or may not have any exceptional magical abilities, (being just a +1 Rapier that the folkhero Muser used 362 years ago when he fended off a Goblin horde until he fell to their overwhelming numbers). Its still just a +1 Rapier, but with a name and back story.

4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere

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DM Beckett wrote:
The point you are missing is trying to define just what a named magic item is. Traditionally speaking in the context of gaming, a named item is simply something like "Muser's Rapier". It may or may not have any exceptional magical abilities, (being just a +1 Rapier that the folkhero Muser used 362 years ago when he fended off a Goblin horde until he fell to their overwhelming numbers). Its still just a +1 Rapier, but with a name and back story.

See, because I know him, I can imagine the specific kind of scream he'd let out when the little green buggers pull him down into their midst and start tearing him apart.

<3

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Anything you could buy by just putting elements together, like a mithral shirt, is not considered named, even if a description of it falls in that section of the book. All other items that cannot be bought by simply adding the elements together, like an assassin's dagger, is considered named.

We can try to make this more clear in the guide.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Andrew Christian wrote:

Anything you could buy by just putting elements together, like a mithral shirt, is not considered named, even if a description of it falls in that section of the book. All other items that cannot be bought by simply adding the elements together, like an assassin's dagger, is considered named.

We can try to make this more clear in the guide.

For clarity sake. I am pretty sure this is stated in either an FAQ, or a dev post somewhere.

Grand Lodge 4/5

DM Beckett wrote:
The point you are missing is trying to define just what a named magic item is. Traditionally speaking in the context of gaming, a named item is simply something like "Muser's Rapier". It may or may not have any exceptional magical abilities, (being just a +1 Rapier that the folkhero Muser used 362 years ago when he fended off a Goblin horde until he fell to their overwhelming numbers). Its still just a +1 Rapier, but with a name and back story.

And at least one of your examples is something that is explicitly not magic, so it doesn't fall into the named MAGIC item rules.

And, to be honest, "Muser's Rapier" cannot be upgraded, at least, not if you want it to remain "Muser's Rapier". Once it changes from matching Muser's Rapier, in any fashion, it is no longer Muser's Rapier.

And, another thing to remember, is that the no upgrading named items rule is to, yet again, avoid table variation.

For Celestial Armor, as an example, there are several ways to break out the cost, which wind up with different costs for upgrading it from +3 to +4.

So, instead of adding a novel to cover all the possible named magical items, and the costs to upgrade each one in PFS, they just said, "No.".

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Please, be gentle with my rapier.

Scarab Sages

Regarding named weapons, I've been unclear if PFS supports upgrading TO named items. (Very clearly opposed to altering existing named items.)

The FAQ indirectly supports it, but I seem to get opposite reactions when I suggest it as an option on the PFS boards.

Named items also, really need a specific mention to what size they are allowed to be, as it is really not covered for PFS play. Some people think the weapon's size qualifies as an alteration, while others see the grey area. From the previous PFS guide, I am unclear on the intention here.

And regarding fame, I'm still unclear if the fame cost is related to the total cost of the item, or the cost to improve the item from the state it is presently in to the upgraded state...

Grand Lodge 2/5

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
And regarding fame, I'm still unclear if the fame cost is related to the total cost of the item, or the cost to improve the item from the state it is presently in to the upgraded state...

Just the first quick example I pulled out of the stickied topic at the top of this forum.

Quote:

Q: I have a +1 greatsword (2350 gp). Can I upgrade it to a +2 weapon?

A: Yes. You can spend 6,000 more gp if and only if you have enough fame to pay for the final item. In this example, your final item price is 8,350 gp and requires 27 fame to purchase (Table 5-3, pg 26).

Is this not clear to you?

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

Regarding named weapons, I've been unclear if PFS supports upgrading TO named items. (Very clearly opposed to altering existing named items.)

The FAQ indirectly supports it, but I seem to get opposite reactions when I suggest it as an option on the PFS boards.

Named items also, really need a specific mention to what size they are allowed to be, as it is really not covered for PFS play. Some people think the weapon's size qualifies as an alteration, while others see the grey area. From the previous PFS guide, I am unclear on the intention here.

And regarding fame, I'm still unclear if the fame cost is related to the total cost of the item, or the cost to improve the item from the state it is presently in to the upgraded state...

faq wrote:


Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?
Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions.

It really can't be made much clearer than that that it is allowed.

Unless the named item says it only comes in one size (I think there may may be a few that start out with a variation on "This large battle axe...") you can buy it in any size, and thus you can upgrade to it in any size.

Can you link the thread where you were told no? Maybe there is something you were missing?

Liberty's Edge 4/5

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For the next guide, could we get a page with all of the GM-friendly tables on it?
-Ability Score Costs
-Day Job Check Rewards
-Generic Prestige Awards
-Spellcasting Costs for Common Spells
-Fame and Item Purchases
-APL and Subtier (assuming there's a chart)
-Whatever other new sweet helpful tools will be in the new guide

I usually make my own, but I think this would help a lot of GMs, particularly new ones.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—San Antonio

John Whitaker wrote:

I would guess that the issue was "Agile" is not always available.

+1 Mithril Breastplate would be OK but not with Agile added in to the mix.

"Agile" (in this case) is not a special attribute added to armor, an Agile Breastplate is a mundane item and always available for 400 GP. See the Advanced Player Guide and Ultimate Equipment.

4/5

Captain Tally-Ho! wrote:

For the next guide, could we get a page with all of the GM-friendly tables on it?

-Ability Score Costs
-Day Job Check Rewards
-Generic Prestige Awards
-Spellcasting Costs for Common Spells
-Fame and Item Purchases
-APL and Subtier (assuming there's a chart)
-Whatever other new sweet helpful tools will be in the new guide

I usually make my own, but I think this would help a lot of GMs, particularly new ones.

If this could be in landscape format, so that it could be printed out and pinned to a GM screen, that would be incredibly useful.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Captain Tally-Ho! wrote:

For the next guide, could we get a page with all of the GM-friendly tables on it?

-Ability Score Costs
-Day Job Check Rewards
-Generic Prestige Awards
-Spellcasting Costs for Common Spells
-Fame and Item Purchases
-APL and Subtier (assuming there's a chart)
-Whatever other new sweet helpful tools will be in the new guide

I usually make my own, but I think this would help a lot of GMs, particularly new ones.

THIS sheet doesn't have all of that info but has a lot of it and is extremely useful.

Grand Lodge 2/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

All of those crafting rules are completely irrelevant in PFS.

5/5 5/55/55/5

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Can we just call it the pathfinder society guide?

Grand Lodge 2/5

Darrell Impey UK wrote:
All of those crafting rules are completely irrelevant in PFS.

I don't know what PFS you're playing, but the PFS everyone else is playing allows alchemists to use craft alchemy to craft.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Here is a landscape page of tables I created for my GM screen

Grand Lodge 2/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
claudekennilol wrote:
Darrell Impey UK wrote:
All of those crafting rules are completely irrelevant in PFS.
I don't know what PFS you're playing, but the PFS everyone else is playing allows alchemists to use craft alchemy to craft.

True, but as there is no passage of time between adventures, you don't need to calculate how long you take to craft them.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Darrell Impey UK wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Darrell Impey UK wrote:
All of those crafting rules are completely irrelevant in PFS.
I don't know what PFS you're playing, but the PFS everyone else is playing allows alchemists to use craft alchemy to craft.
True, but as there is no passage of time between adventures, you don't need to calculate how long you take to craft them.

It's more true than "all of those crafting rules are completely irrelevant in PFS." I don't see how one piece of superfluous information negates the usefulness of the sheet as a whole.

Grand Lodge 2/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I wasn't intending to imply that it did, and I apologise if it came over that wsy.

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