Before and after that one AP, Earth's presence or absence in Golarion's universe is essentially a non-issue. There are no signs that event the great city-ship that fell on Numeria ever visited it.
Cthulhu resides on Earth in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting. So there's that. There's been hints that the Strange Aeons AP might involve Earth in some way.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Conclusion: Space is a really, really big place.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just need to lay out two things for the OP:
1: Paizo doesn't exist in Pathfinder earth because Marvel Comics doesn't exist in the Marvel Cinematic Universe's Earth. The movie Terminator 2 doesn't exist in the universe of the Terminator movies. [Disregard all of this if you want to run a Last Action Hero campaign.]
2: In-Universe Golarion/Earth line up with 4713/1918 in their respective calendars. The whole 2015/4715 thing is an out-of-character measure used to conveniently tie together setting time with real world so you can easily remember what year a specific AP might have taken place in. It is not a canonical in-universe association.
Now I'm going to go research cool happenings from the 1920s.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Besides the Cthulhu tie-in, remember that the Osirioni pantheon does have direct carry-over to (Golarion) Earth's Ancient Egypt.
Given the level of cultural pastiche in Golarion, it's easy to assume that is ALL there is to Osirion, but it's actually more than that.
Still, the over-all tie in is not all that strong, and OPs hypothetical issues re: "Golarion Earth Paizo" are unlikely to be front-burnered.
And if they are... then you will have your answer.
|
The universe is so big, that by proability alone, there should be a lot of Golarions and Earths out there. Everything must exist, every possibility we have ever dreamed of is out there waiting to be discovered.
Uh, I really hope that you're kidding and don't really think that just because the universe is rather large that means that worlds with magic have to exist.
Developer
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The universe is so big, that by proability alone, there should be a lot of Golarions and Earths out there. Everything must exist, every possibility we have ever dreamed of is out there waiting to be discovered.Uh, I really hope that you're kidding and don't really think that just because the universe is rather large that means that worlds with magic have to exist.
Can you prove that they don't?
Can you prove that they don't?The universe is so big, that by proability alone, there should be a lot of Golarions and Earths out there. Everything must exist, every possibility we have ever dreamed of is out there waiting to be discovered.Uh, I really hope that you're kidding and don't really think that just because the universe is rather large that means that worlds with magic have to exist.
The burden of proof is always on the advocator.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Is our reality real? Are the people I talk to really people, or just polymorphed bags of holding? HOW CAN I LIVE WHEN I'M NOT SURE?
They sell special sunglasses which reveal a person's True Appearance..
Until you get a pair just relax calm down...countng to ten helps with that
OTOH, Marvel Comics does exist in the Marvel Comics universe. Various writers and editors have met some characters and even had disputes over the way they were portrayed in the comics. Obviously the comics in the MU aren't quite the same as the ones we read.I just need to lay out two things for the OP:
1: Paizo doesn't exist in Pathfinder earth because Marvel Comics doesn't exist in the Marvel Cinematic Universe's Earth. The movie Terminator 2 doesn't exist in the universe of the Terminator movies. [Disregard all of this if you want to run a Last Action Hero campaign.]
They also seem to exist in some capacity in the MCU. at least Captain America comics appeared in IM2 and CA:TFA and Patsy Walker comics appeared in Jessica Jones
|
Developer
|
Can you prove that they don't?The universe is so big, that by proability alone, there should be a lot of Golarions and Earths out there. Everything must exist, every possibility we have ever dreamed of is out there waiting to be discovered.Uh, I really hope that you're kidding and don't really think that just because the universe is rather large that means that worlds with magic have to exist.A whole lot of our fundamental understanding of the universe goes away if the laws of nature work differently elsewhere.
Beyond that, the Golarion universe has an awful lot of cosmology attached to it that would need to be universal in nature - gods, afterlife, other planes of existence etc. Now most of that is theoretically compatible with our world, mostly because we don't have any evidence of such things, but it's not compatible with any number of other fictional worlds where such things are defined. You can say the universe is big enough to have our Earth and Golarion in it, but it's not big enough to include Golarion and Middle-Earth, for example. The cosmologies don't mesh.
That pretty much shoots down the "Everything must exist, every possibility we have ever dreamed of is out there waiting to be discovered." concept. Some of the things we've dreamed of define the others out of existence.
Yeah, but no one's claiming that Middle Earth exists in the same universe as Golarion.
|
|
Can you prove that they don't?
Uh, I really hope that you're kidding and don't really think that just because the universe is rather large that means that worlds with magic have to exist.
I can prove that the fact that the Universe is very large (even if it was infinite which it isn't currently believed to be) does NOT mean that worlds with magic HAVE to exist.
Obviously I can't prove that magic does not exist. I suspect that you're smart enough to know that proving the nonexistence of something like magic is fundamentally impossible.
If you think Earth and Golarion being in the same universe is mind-blowing, then please, whatever you do, do not click on this link:
For the luvva whatever deity you worship, don't do it!
I'm warning you! I will not be responsible for cleaning the brains up off the floor when your head explodes!!!
They also seem to exist in some capacity in the MCU. at least Captain America comics appeared in IM2 and CA:TFA and Patsy Walker comics appeared in Jessica Jones
Many years ago (a decade plus-ish?) Marvel even had a month where they put out several Marvel Comics that were the Marvel comics as they exist in the Marvel Universe. As if that wasn't mind-blowing enough, the Captain America issue was not only drawn by Steve Rogers (who, in his own comic, actually did draw Cap for Marvel comics for a period of time), but written by Rick Jones!!
So what is the current year on earth for the current Golarion timeline 1920, 1921, etc?
It would be cool to visit earth in the 1920's in an AP that takes place mostly on earth would be cool. The occult classes, alchemist, rogue, brawler, gunslinger, slayer, and vigilante would all be good fits.
I have some thoughts about this. (Thread necromancy welcome.)
* * * * * * * *
And here's another thought: If Golarion managed to develop an RPG company that managed to get a little bit of knowledge of Earth, what would their game(s) be like?
And here's another thought: If Golarion managed to develop an RPG company that managed to get a little bit of knowledge of Earth, what would their game(s) be like?
Unflatteringly, I'm going to guess it would be something like an RPG version of Risk or Supremacy.
|
We don´t know if laws of physics and nature are the same for the entire universe yet. We don´t even know if the universe is real or a computer simulation. I know is improbable, but is not impossible.
And Middle-earth can be in the same universe as Golarion, just in a empty part of the universe and Eru just failed to share that there is more than he created himself.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I now have a mental image of the Paizo Observatory, where astronomer-developers use GOLEM* telescopes to monitor and record events on Golarion, 95 years out of date.
*G O L E M
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
And Middle-earth can be in the same universe as Golarion, just in a empty part of the universe and Eru just failed to share that there is more than he created himself.
Actually, Tolkien's stated intent was that Middle-earth was Earth... just during a 'mythological time'. Thus, Golarion and Earth being in the same universe would mean... Norgorber is actually Smeagol. Hence the whole 'split personality' and halfling associations. :]
Sméagol fell into a portal to Golarion, and absorbed the spirit of Sauron.
^Actually, that fills in a missing link in the evolution of Sauron into The Grinch . . . .
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
The answer is obvious....James Jacob is really Nex. He needed the money. So he sells storys in Golarion to us.
Think about it...we lack information on Nex...obviously he does not want us to make the connections.
And the information on Geb is obviously propaganda against him. Remember James' (or should I say Nex's) strong stance on how undead must be evil...
It is very clear.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The answer is obvious....James Jacob is really Nex. He needed the money. So he sells storys in Golarion to us.
Think about it...we lack information on Nex...obviously he does not want us to make the connections.
And the information on Geb is obviously propaganda against him. Remember James' (or should I say Nex's) strong stance on how undead must be evil...
It is very clear.
Aaaaaaaand I know what my next tabloid article's gonna be about.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Golarion doesn't exist in the same reality as the Earth we live on. Rather, it coexists with a "Pulp Earth" where the mythos is real, and probably a lot of other genre stuff.Well, yeah. I suppose what I and my players are struggling with is whether or not Pulp-Earth is identical to ours (but with magic and whatnot. Which, according to RoW,exists but is sort of lost and secret on Earth), and if the answer is yes (as Brandon's foreward to Rasputin Must Die seems to indicate), then how does the fourth-wall breaking stuff like Paizo (or in-universe us, for that matter) work?The answer to that is the same as the one that distinguishes fact from fiction. If we take for fact that Golarion is real (cause we all believe that, right?), then the fourth-wall is merely the boundary between non-fiction and fantasy. The fourth wall is the boundary between reality and outside observers, so if we aren't actually outside the universe in which Golarion exists, there is no fourth wall. We're simply writing non-fiction works about a world in a distant part of the galaxy.
At least I keep telling myself that.
Guys I think we found Durvin Gest. I think he's a Paizo employee.
Of course, Earth and Golarion could be in the same universe, and people on each planet still write fiction and even role-playing games about the other(*). After all, at least on Earth, people do this for Earth all the time . . . .
(*)I'd like to see what the Golarion-sourced RPGs about Earth are like.
|
|
We don´t know if laws of physics and nature are the same for the entire universe yet. We don´t even know if the universe is real or a computer simulation. I know is improbable, but is not impossible.
And Middle-earth can be in the same universe as Golarion, just in a empty part of the universe and Eru just failed to share that there is more than he created himself.
Not really. I mean you could have something that looked like Middle Earth, but Eru wasn't actually God the Creator, but it wouldn't actually be Middle Earth.
Much like a Golarion wouldn't actually be the same without it's cosmology.
Even infinite space just doesn't do what you want it to do.
Eru could have created Middle-Earth and even the entire universe, we don´t know who created Golarion´s universe. Maybe the gods are just Valar called by a different name. People from Middle-Earth are just misinformed by how much else there is.
Earth is so small and by sheer chance there is so much. The universe is so big, that we can barelly grasp how much.
|
Creative Director
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
So, if I'm clear on this, if 4715=1920, (and assuming James is letting Brandon Hodge have his moment, so that in-universe Earth in 2015 is identical to ours), then in-universe Paizo is roughly chronicling the events of Golarion's history about a century ago (somehow; that's not all that important) and are publishing their findings as a fictional role-playing game. Possibly to avoid the nuthouse. Am I in the ballpark with our theories so far?
That's actually not "me letting Brandon have his moment' at all. That's Brandon writing to the spec that myself and Rob hired him to write to. Pretty much all of the "how does Golarion interact with Earth" big picture behind the scenes stuff was a significant part of what we on the Adventure Path team (mostly Rob, but with lots of help from myself and Adam and a few others). We put all that info into a 20,000 word outline and then the actual adventure authors get hired and write from those initial notes and structures we create.
Until this volume, we'd never EVER said what year a Golarion year equates to in an Earth year. It's not something we said in the Inner Sea World Guide, that's for sure.
The In-Universe Earth that player characters visit in "Rasputin Must Die" is part of Golarion's overall canon now, and as time goes forward in Golarion, time goes forward on Earth as well. If we were to publish an adventure this year, in 2016, where the PCs go to Earth again, they would visit Earth in the year 1921, which is 3 years later than the Earth in "Rasputin Must Die" which was published in 2013, 3 years ago.
If we wanted Golarion PCs to visit earth at another time period, then time travel would have to be involved.
|
Creative Director
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
100 light years is a VERY near part of the Galaxy. It's basically right next door. Not at all distant :-) :-) :-)We're simply writing non-fiction works about a world in a distant part of the galaxy.
And that's why I nixed Mark's theory about where Golarion is, frankly, because Golarion is in a different galaxy than Earth; a galaxy where magic is more common. And Androffa (from Iron Gods) is in a THIRD galaxy. I want all these three planets to be super far apart because that helps to KEEP them separate and, frankly, because it gives us more time to maintain the illusion about whether or not there IS a Golarion out there. As Mark points out, there are stars in our galaxy that you can observe at 93 light years away, and that's too close for me.
Mark's central flaw to his theory is the assumption that he's basing it on science and the idea that light is a constant and that nothing can travel faster than that. When something travels instantaneously (like teleport, or the Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga), all that science logic breaks down. If something traveling faster than the speed of light appears to be traveling back in time, then something traveling INFINITELY faster than that (as in the case of instant travel like this) breaks that assumption entirely. Which means Golarion could essentially be anywhere.
That all said, if it IS 93 light years away... that's probably far enough away that by the time science can prove or disprove things, I'll be dead anyway so it'll be someone else's problem to worry about.
|
Creative Director
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just assumed they were on different planes. Different Universes, same multi-verse.
In Pathfinder-Campaign-Setting cosmology, there are no alternate material planes. Only the Prime.
The correspondence between our years and Golarion years, where 2016 = 4716, is a convenience for the writers and readers/players. The actual in-game year is 1920 AD = 4716 AR. The question of whether in the game universe the history of Earth will play out in the same way as it did in the real world is a moot point. The in-game timeline hasn't gotten there yet and in all likelihood never will reach the point where one has to decide "Ok, in the campaign setting, did Gary Gygax invent Dungeons and Dragons?" because, let's be realistic, the chances are Paizo won't be around in 50 years, and if they are, they probably won't be publishing the same things they are today.
Not quite true. Just because we haven't talked about "alternate material planes" yet in print doesn't mean they don't exist.
But yeah, that's irrelevant to this discussion, because Golarion and the Earth presented in Rasputin Must Die are indeed in the same universe/Material Plane.
|
Creative Director
|
Before and after that one AP, Earth's presence or absence in Golarion's universe is essentially a non-issue. There are no signs that event the great city-ship that fell on Numeria ever visited it.
In fact, in Iron Gods...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There is no "sheer chance". Not in the world made by Eru. Nor is there a complicated mess of Inner & Outer planes and various different afterlives.
You don't know that. One of the few things that we do know about the universe created by Eru is that we don't know enough about it to say what is and isn't possible. This is fairly explicit -- the vision of Eru is unknowable by lesser beings, even Melkor.
At the very least, we know the old FR setting is at least 100 years behind Golarion, if they are both in the same universe as the Earth being visited by both. Because Elminster is coming here in the modern age, of course ;)
I don't think he's visited here since 4e, however, and supposedly he has a link to Yellowstone National Park circa 1880, tho...
==Aelryinth
At the very least, we know the old FR setting is at least 100 years behind Golarion, if they are both in the same universe as the Earth being visited by both. Because Elminster is coming here in the modern age, of course ;)
I don't think he's visited here since 4e, however, and supposedly he has a link to Yellowstone National Park circa 1880, tho...
Elminster may be capable of time travel. So, for that matter, may Baba Yaga, but she has not chosen to display that capacity so far.
D:
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The In-Universe Earth that player characters visit in "Rasputin Must Die" is part of Golarion's overall canon now, and as time goes forward in Golarion, time goes forward on Earth as well. If we were to publish an adventure this year, in 2016, where the PCs go to Earth again, they would visit Earth in the year 1921, which is 3 years later than the Earth in "Rasputin Must Die" which was published in 2013, 3 years ago.
Hm, It's probably (not) a coincidence that this is prime Call of Cthulhu era times. It wouldn't surprise me if Strange Aeons took a trip to a major mythos site on Earth.
So, if I'm clear on this, if 4715=1920, (and assuming James is letting Brandon Hodge have his moment, so that in-universe Earth in 2015 is identical to ours), then in-universe Paizo is roughly chronicling the events of Golarion's history about a century ago (somehow; that's not all that important) and are publishing their findings as a fictional role-playing game. Possibly to avoid the nuthouse. Am I in the ballpark with our theories so far?
That's actually not "me letting Brandon have his moment' at all. That's Brandon writing to the spec that myself and Rob hired him to write to. Pretty much all of the "how does Golarion interact with Earth" big picture behind the scenes stuff was a significant part of what we on the Adventure Path team (mostly Rob, but with lots of help from myself and Adam and a few others). We put all that info into a 20,000 word outline and then the actual adventure authors get hired and write from those initial notes and structures we create.
Until this volume, we'd never EVER said what year a Golarion year equates to in an Earth year. It's not something we said in the Inner Sea World Guide, that's for sure.
The In-Universe Earth that player characters visit in "Rasputin Must Die" is part of Golarion's overall canon now, and as time goes forward in Golarion, time goes forward on Earth as well. If we were to publish an adventure this year, in 2016, where the PCs go to Earth again, they would visit Earth in the year 1921, which is 3 years later than the Earth in "Rasputin Must Die" which was published in 2013, 3 years ago.
If we wanted Golarion PCs to visit earth at another time period, then time travel would have to be involved.
Or you can addcon the idea that time travel was already involved in transiting to Earth via that AP.... that the Hut uses stable time corridor in which time passes on both sides.... Or an unstable one which would mean that any travel betwen the two distant worlds can intersect a different Earth time period. Space and Time aren't really separate concepts any more. Or one can say that any interstellar travel can not help but involve time if it's travel by wormhole.
|
Creative Director
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
The In-Universe Earth that player characters visit in "Rasputin Must Die" is part of Golarion's overall canon now, and as time goes forward in Golarion, time goes forward on Earth as well. If we were to publish an adventure this year, in 2016, where the PCs go to Earth again, they would visit Earth in the year 1921, which is 3 years later than the Earth in "Rasputin Must Die" which was published in 2013, 3 years ago.Hm, It's probably (not) a coincidence that this is prime Call of Cthulhu era times. It wouldn't surprise me if Strange Aeons took a trip to a major mythos site on Earth.
Funny how that works out, eh? Almost like it might have maybe been planned ahead for? ;-)
At the very least, we know the old FR setting is at least 100 years behind Golarion, if they are both in the same universe as the Earth being visited by both. Because Elminster is coming here in the modern age, of course ;)
I don't think he's visited here since 4e, however, and supposedly he has a link to Yellowstone National Park circa 1880, tho...
==Aelryinth
That's assuming we're not using the Star Trek hypothesis which shows that Earth gets duplicated every few episodes or if we want to show an American flag, "Omega Factor" demonstrate that Christianity IS the one true Religion "Bread and Circuses" or if we simply want to reuse some 30's sets. "Miri".
The next wormhole could lead us to the London of Robert Schreck's Dragon 100 module in the 1960's.
|
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Grouchy, grumpy, mean, curmudgeonly libel insinuating there is a "flaw" in my clearly airtight theoryThis thread was so nice while you were on vacation from the boards :-(
My vacation was so nice while I wasn't on these boards, in other words... :P
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hmmm, Now I'm going to have this heretical head canon that Aroden didn't actually die, he just just decided to pop over to the other side of the universe to live for a while. Deific midlife crisis. He is now living in LA at the beginning of the Hollywood studios, manipulating humanity if a far more subtle way.
In a few decades maybe he will move to Lake Geneva...
|
|
There is no "sheer chance". Not in the world made by Eru. Nor is there a complicated mess of Inner & Outer planes and various different afterlives.
Not all fictional realities are compatible, especially if we are just talking about infinite physical space.
Eru could have created just one galaxy. People from Middle-Earth didn ´t need to know more than that. The afterlife is subject to a huge interpretation and can be hugelly setorized. People don´t talk of dominion of the black aliens waiting to be judged by Pharasma. Maybe Pharasma has others judgement halls for others sectors of space. All planar aligment is aligned to Golarion. Maybe Eru just mail souls to Pharasma and don´t let any link to outer(inner)planes touch Middle-Earth.