How are Earth and Golarion in the same universe?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

101 to 130 of 130 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Scarab Sages

thejeff wrote:


For example: I imagine a universe without infinite physical space. Done.

Space is infinite even if it's boundaries are set. There are an infinite number of points contained within an area the size of a cubic micron. It's just a matter of scale and perception.


Imbicatus wrote:
thejeff wrote:


For example: I imagine a universe without infinite physical space. Done.
Space is infinite even if it's boundaries are set. There are an infinite number of points contained within an area the size of a cubic micron. It's just a matter of scale and perception.

And therefore anything that I can imagine exists with any cubic micron? Even things bigger than a cubic micron?

And actually, it's not at all clear that's true. I've fallen behind on my high end physics, but there's some evidence that space is actually quantized. There is a lower limit on how you can divide. There aren't an infinite number of points.


thejeff wrote:
Draco Bahamut wrote:
thejeff wrote:

There is no "sheer chance". Not in the world made by Eru. Nor is there a complicated mess of Inner & Outer planes and various different afterlives.

Not all fictional realities are compatible, especially if we are just talking about infinite physical space.
Eru could have created just one galaxy. People from Middle-Earth didn ´t need to know more than that. The afterlife is subject to a huge interpretation and can be hugelly setorized. People don´t talk of dominion of the black aliens waiting to be judged by Pharasma. Maybe Pharasma has others judgement halls for others sectors of space. All planar aligment is aligned to Golarion. Maybe Eru just mail souls to Pharasma and don´t let any link to outer(inner)planes touch Middle-Earth.

Yes. God could be lying to his angels. Or them to the elves. Tolkien could just be wrong about the nature of his universe.

Or of course, Paizo could be wrong about the nature of Golarion and its cosmology.

Leaving the specifics of Middle-Earth and Golarion aside, it is at the vary least possible to imagine worlds that are not compatible simply given infinite space.
For example: I imagine a universe without infinite physical space. Done.

Hey, Eru never says there isn´t another god/creator out there. I can imagine a universe with a lot of god creators that can live in community and share space. I never told my Sims that there is others Sims in other people computers just like them, i simple accept that there is no chance of contact and don´t matter with such thoughts.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
thejeff wrote:
And actually, it's not at all clear that's true. I've fallen behind on my high end physics, but there's some evidence that space is actually quantized. There is a lower limit on how you can divide. There aren't an infinite number of points.

So you're saying Hank Pym's wife may not be forever lost to the microversesubatomic-verse? ;)


^I think the implication in that film (and presumably the original comic) was that you kept shrinking until you ran afoul of the quantization limit, which sounds like it would be extremely bad for your health.


Remember kids!

When Quantum Leaping, always say "Ho boy!"


Draco Bahamut wrote:
thejeff wrote:

There is no "sheer chance". Not in the world made by Eru. Nor is there a complicated mess of Inner & Outer planes and various different afterlives.

Not all fictional realities are compatible, especially if we are just talking about infinite physical space.
Eru could have created just one galaxy. People from Middle-Earth didn ´t need to know more than that. The afterlife is subject to a huge interpretation and can be hugelly setorized. People don´t talk of dominion of the black aliens waiting to be judged by Pharasma. Maybe Pharasma has others judgement halls for others sectors of space. All planar aligment is aligned to Golarion. Maybe Eru just mail souls to Pharasma and don´t let any link to outer(inner)planes touch Middle-Earth.

Tolkien wrote his works in the pre-Hubble (I mean the man, not the telescope) age, when everyone thought that the Milky Way Galaxy was the entire universe.

Shadow Lodge

Koleton, Archmage of Spokane wrote:

IRL; as in, it would be totally possible for Valeros to have Ezren open a portal here and trash the Paizo offices in a drunken rage while ranting about how they never let him sleep with Merisiel. But how is that possible?

They wouldn't, because Balazar brought Padrig (the iconic summoner/eidolon pair) to the paizo offices to swallow James Jacobs whole. They really didn't like the unchained rewrite.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Keep in mind that Paizo is describing a world where 4715 on Golarion is roughly equal to 1920 on Earth. Therefore, since 95 years have passed here, 95 years have passed there, meaning it's now the year 4810. Unless all the human iconics have figured out some way of reaching immortality (or just reversing the aging process), they've all passed into the Boneyard and have been judged by Pharasma. Valeros is too busy partying with his bro C.C. to worry about Merisiel, and Ezren has found out what happens to atheists after they die.


Misroi wrote:
Keep in mind that Paizo is describing a world where 4715 on Golarion is roughly equal to 1920 on Earth. Therefore, since 95 years have passed here, 95 years have passed there, meaning it's now the year 4810. Unless all the human iconics have figured out some way of reaching immortality (or just reversing the aging process), they've all passed into the Boneyard and have been judged by Pharasma. Valeros is too busy partying with his bro C.C. to worry about Merisiel, and Ezren has found out what happens to atheists after they die.

Or maybe it's possible that the means used to travel to Earth in Reign of Winter also involves a time shift of a century or so. A different route might take you to a deeper past, or Lovecraft's far distant future where the only things inhabiting a dying Earth are the Yithians.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You can flavor it as such if you wish, but I think the Powers That Be have stated that there is no time jump in Reign of Winter. While they haven't said the Hut can't travel through time as well as space, they've said it just isn't in this case.

I'm not opposed to time travel in stories, but from everything I've read from Paizo, they're not interested in telling time travel stories just yet, so the Hut isn't time traveling in Rasputin Must Die! Just covering a phenomenally vast distance in basically zero time.


Misroi wrote:
You can flavor it as such if you wish, but I think the Powers That Be have stated that there is no time jump in Reign of Winter.

Shrug. From a modern physics perspective, that's not a meaningful statement. There is "now" across the universe. So while the Powers That Be can make such a statement, it's not really any more sensible than if they said "oofy rolph benzedrine fzzzdong bork bork bork!" Or "A wizard did it!" which is basically what they said, and which actively precludes a further explanation.

If a different wizard wants to travel back to 14th Century France, and claim that "now" on Golarion is actually the 14th century,.... well, that's something else that a wizard did. And there's literally no way to tell which wizard is the one who's traveling in time -- from a physics perspective, they both are.

Scarab Sages

Time travel could seriously screw up player abilities as well. Any cleric of Cayden is hosed if the go back as early as one day before he went on a bender and decided to try his luck at the starstone.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
Misroi wrote:
You can flavor it as such if you wish, but I think the Powers That Be have stated that there is no time jump in Reign of Winter.

Shrug. From a modern physics perspective, that's not a meaningful statement. There is "now" across the universe. So while the Powers That Be can make such a statement, it's not really any more sensible than if they said "oofy rolph benzedrine fzzzdong bork bork bork!" Or "A wizard did it!" which is basically what they said, and which actively precludes a further explanation.

If a different wizard wants to travel back to 14th Century France, and claim that "now" on Golarion is actually the 14th century,.... well, that's something else that a wizard did. And there's literally no way to tell which wizard is the one who's traveling in time -- from a physics perspective, they both are.

Technically, there's no "now" from one side of the room to another, but we usually ignore that.

And once you've proven yourself able to travel across the universe in a matter of minutes (hours? I don't remember how much subjective time the hut takes) and then return to your starting point to find that your subjective time matches the local elapsed time, I think you've pretty much told modern physics to get lost.
Which still doesn't mean that in some fashion 1920 Earth isn't correlated to 4715 Golarion. For any such means of travel. This prevents shenanigans such as using the other wizard's method to travel to 14th century France from 4715 and then using the Hut to return to Golarion 600 years before he left.

Of course, if you want time travel, go for it. But I'd rather not hack space travel to get it.


One thing that I've always been curious about was the religions on Earth in Golarion's universe. So, of course, I'd have to be curious about the subject that is going to be touchy and controversial since they're, y'know, real world religions.


Misroi wrote:

You can flavor it as such if you wish, but I think the Powers That Be have stated that there is no time jump in Reign of Winter. While they haven't said the Hut can't travel through time as well as space, they've said it just isn't in this case.

I'm not opposed to time travel in stories, but from everything I've read from Paizo, they're not interested in telling time travel stories just yet, so the Hut isn't time traveling in Rasputin Must Die! Just covering a phenomenally vast distance in basically zero time.

I'm not referring to time travel, merely the fact that when you cross vast distances in space, time is not a separate consideration. What I'm referring to are connections between two different areas of space/time. Considerations of time travel are irrelevant because Golarion and Earth do not have a common "now". Not any more than any two different coordinates in space share a common now. But in intraplanetary distances, the difference is less than trivial. No more than 1/60 of a second across 2000 miles for instance.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Um...you're going to have to explain that better, because I'm not sure what you're saying, Drahliana.


Misroi wrote:
Um...you're going to have to explain that better, because I'm not sure what you're saying, Drahliana.

This video from "The Elegant Universe" might explain it better.

But in short, think of the entirety of space/time as a loaf that you can slice in a variety of ways.

But in short, the Hut connects Golarion of the 41st century to Earth of the early 20th century because of how it makes it's "Now" slice across spacetime and travels it instantly. You just have to wrap your head around the concept that every "Now" of space/time exists simultaneously.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Misroi wrote:
Um...you're going to have to explain that better, because I'm not sure what you're saying, Drahliana.

This video from "The Elegant Universe" might explain it better.

But in short, think of the entirety of space/time as a loaf that you can slice in a variety of ways.

But in short, the Hut connects Golarion of the 41st century to Earth of the early 20th century because of how it makes it's "Now" slice across spacetime and travels it instantly. You just have to wrap your head around the concept that every "Now" of space/time exists simultaneously.

That assumption, at least coupled with the possibility of other slices that connect differently allows timetravel, which Paizo seems to want to avoid - or at least avoid as a side-effect.

Of course, it's not at all clear that Pathfinder spacetime pays any attention to modern physics.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In fact, I'd argue that once you add "a wizard did it" to your list of answers that hold up to scrutiny, all sorts of universal limits just fall away. The Dancing Hut can do whatever you want it to, since it's an artifact that breaks all sorts of rules, both laws of nature and rules mechanics in the game we're playing, and that includes time travel, if you so desire it.

I suspect we'll see a touch more clarification on this once Strange Aeons drops, and we find out how the passage of time on Golarion versus Earth compares.


Misroi wrote:

In fact, I'd argue that once you add "a wizard did it" to your list of answers that hold up to scrutiny, all sorts of universal limits just fall away. The Dancing Hut can do whatever you want it to, since it's an artifact that breaks all sorts of rules, both laws of nature and rules mechanics in the game we're playing, and that includes time travel, if you so desire it.

I suspect we'll see a touch more clarification on this once Strange Aeons drops, and we find out how the passage of time on Golarion versus Earth compares.

Or it might not be visited at all. Aside from the one single AP, Earth for all intents and purposes doesn't exist, isn't even mentioned in a settings book.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Misroi wrote:

In fact, I'd argue that once you add "a wizard did it" to your list of answers that hold up to scrutiny, all sorts of universal limits just fall away. The Dancing Hut can do whatever you want it to, since it's an artifact that breaks all sorts of rules, both laws of nature and rules mechanics in the game we're playing, and that includes time travel, if you so desire it.

I suspect we'll see a touch more clarification on this once Strange Aeons drops, and we find out how the passage of time on Golarion versus Earth compares.

Or it might not be visited at all. Aside from the one single AP, Earth for all intents and purposes doesn't exist, isn't even mentioned in a settings book.

Even if it did, which would surprise me, early 1920s would be a good time for a Earth Mythos connection.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.

There are indeed multiple links between Earth and Golarion in Strange Aeons, although not in the way folks might expect—we don't send the PCs back to Earth in this one like we do in Rasputin Must Die. It's... complicated. You'll see soon enough! :-P

Scarab Sages

James Jacobs wrote:
There are indeed multiple links between Earth and Golarion in Strange Aeons, although not in the way folks might expect—we don't send the PCs back to Earth in this one like we do in Rasputin Must Die. It's... complicated. You'll see soon enough! :-P

Yithian mind swapping? :)


PCs are Occult Adventurers from Earth, who access Golarion via the Dreamlands -- er, Dimension of Dreams?

Leng is either part of that dimension or accessible from it, and we know Leng borders the Material Plane and indeed that border is particularly thin in the vicinity of Xin-Shalast.


Damon Griffin wrote:
PCs are Occult Adventurers from Earth, who access Golarion via the Dreamlands -- er, Dimension of Dreams?

IIRC there was something about starting out as amnesiacs, so something like that might be more possible than you'd think.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm betting on Yithians as well, Imbicatus.


Mark Moreland wrote:


But if we take them as fact—I don't see why we can't since dragons and magic and other planes of existence are accepted without much resistance—it means that we can calculate Golarion's distance from Earth within the real universe.

Since observable "now" on Golarion actually coincides with the Earth of 95 years ago, we can assume that Golarion is approximately 95 light years from Earth. We know a number of stars in this general proximity to Earth, but none (that I could find) that are yellow-oragne stars like our sun, Sol. Since Golarion orbits a sun similar to our own at a distance of roughly 1 AU, we need to look for a star with planetary bodies similar to our own.

The closest I could find in a cursory search of web resources indicates that there are a few Sol-like stars at near that distance, but that current detection methods make it difficult to discover Earth-sized planetoids at the necessary distances to foster life. I found HD 70642 around 94 ly from Sol, which has a Jupiter-like planet orbiting the star at a distance of roughly 3.3 AU. This puts the gas giant, with its mass of about double Jupiter's, at an orbit between Mars's and Jupiter's within our own solar system. If Golarion were in fact orbiting HD 70642, the planet discovered could well be Liavara, based on its orbital period and size.

This is the most interesting post I've read in a long while. And there's a lot we can do with this with respect to Golarion's night skies.


Only problem is

Spoiler:

that during Reign of Winter Our Heroes instantaneously teleport via Baba Yaga's Hut, which keeps Earth's calendar 95 years behind our IRL calendar.

We have no reason to believe that Our Heroes traveled backwards in time.

Or, Very Very Soon the events described in The Call of Cthulhu take place on G-Earth.

Publication calendar synchs to "Real Earth" calendar. In-game calendar synchs to 95 years in the past "G-Earth" calendar.


Here is my head canon:

1918 AD  = 4718 Aroden Reckoning = 1491 Dalereckoning = 608 Greyhawk Common Year.

Greenwood's great grandfather knew Elminster  who would regale him of tales of "the glory days" from before the Spellplague. He also told him of the dark times of the Spellplague. When WotC blew up the Realms Greenwood gave them the Spellplague as a tool to do it, knowing that if his involvement continued he could simply fast forward to the post Spellplague era which is why he was so adamant to not retcon the Spellplague.

Similar things occurred with James Jacobs and Gary Gygax.

In this canon Lovecraft met people who experienced the horror tales he wrote about while Ziggy Stardust is a real person who one night bumped into David Bowie and warned him of the Black Star and the terrible horrors that called it home and were coming to Earth. And the D'ni truly did live underground and their ancient city has been the site of an archaeogists excavation.

In this headcanon Starfinder is not canon but instead an extrapolation of where things are at in 4808 AR. Or maybe it is canon and a time traveller came back in time to reveal it.

101 to 130 of 130 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Lost Omens Campaign Setting / General Discussion / How are Earth and Golarion in the same universe? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.