Black Spot vs. monsters with multiple checks


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion

Grand Lodge

Meliski recently found himself facing the Pig From Hell with only his 1d8 Strength and the Black Spot.

The spell text says it lowers the difficulty to defeat a monster by 1 plus the adventure deck number.

The singular "difficulty" implies it only affects one check. However, the definite article "the" implies that the spell assumes there's only one difficulty.

So the question is, does the Black Spot only affect ONE difficulty on a monster with multiple checks to defeat, or all?

Input from the devs would, obviously, be optimal.


Personally, I'd say it only affects one check. It is played during the step where you determine the difficulty of a check, thus "the" difficulty is right to assume there is only one check, which is the one you are attempting at that moment, even if a monster ultimately has more than one check. Even if it said "the difficulty of a check to defeat a monster" it would still be "the" difficulty.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Only a single check, unfortunately.

Black Spot is played during the "Determine The Difficulty" step of a check. As a result, it only impacts that one check and not any other checks to defeat.

EDIT: Hawkninja'd, but we agree on something for once :)


If it was intended to work for multiple checks, it would have text telling you to display the card next to the character, like Speed and Strength do.


Transmogfrify isnt displayed either


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tali Wah wrote:
Transmogfrify isnt displayed either

Transmogrify is most certainly displayed. First sentence reads "When a character at your location encounters a monster, display this card next to that monster."


Thanks. Did not remember that.

I still disagree about black spot. I think it should apply to all checks to defeat. But that is just how we played it through out all of skull and shackles.


skizzerz wrote:
EDIT: Hawkninja'd, but we agree on something for once :)

I would think we agree more than disagree.


I tend to agree with Hawk and cohorts, but indeed for later use, would have been better worded as :
lowers the difficulty of a check to defeat a monster by 1 plus the adventure deck number


Yeah, I remember having this discussion back when S&S came out. I was staunchly on the side of "all checks," because it says "the difficulty to defeat a monster" not "the difficulty of a check to defeat a monster" (like Wand of Enervation does, I think I said at the time?). But I've come to accept the logic of it being a revealed spell, and therefore gone by the time the second check comes around, so I guess I'm ultimately on the same page as everyone else.. but I'd like things like that to be worded a little more clearly in the future. D:


Yeah. That discussion was here, for anyone interested. Nothing official in there though.

Grand Lodge

Dave Riley wrote:
Yeah, I remember having this discussion back when S&S came out. I was staunchly on the side of "all checks," because it says "the difficulty to defeat a monster" not "the difficulty of a check to defeat a monster" (like Wand of Enervation does, I think I said at the time?). But I've come to accept the logic of it being a revealed spell, and therefore gone by the time the second check comes around, so I guess I'm ultimately on the same page as everyone else.. but I'd like things like that to be worded a little more clearly in the future. D:

Does Dale agree also?

As much as I'd like to see Black Spot affect all checks, I'm agreeing with the rest.


I would also think that it affects only one check, as after you play it you must discard it/recharge it. Like when you play a weapon and discard it for its power, it does not apply to both checks, only the check you discarded it for.


Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Does Dale agree also?

I might've acceded to the evidence, but Dale follows his heart. >:|

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I've always played it that it affects all the checks as well... if that's not the case, we probably would have failed a few scenarios during S&S.

Adventure Card Game Designer

We're looking into this.

Grand Lodge

Thanks everybody!

Mike, I definitely look forward to what you come up with.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

For all the reasons stated above, it affects a single check.


It should have been written exactly the way the cloud spells were but it wasn't so it ends up seeing a lot less use than it could have.

If you are playing a solo spell caster, black spot isn't really usable at all.

Pathfinder ACG Developer

Solo spellcasters definitely have to make a variety of concessions to their choices.

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