Howdy folks. As most observant visitors of these boards likely have noticed the Arcane Trickster can now be entered quite simply at level 5 with Rogue 1 or Snakebite Striker 1/Wizard 3 and accomplished sneak attacker.
I was hoping to get some feedback from folks on how to make such a build happen as you seem to have plenty of options for building and different strategies for sneak attacking on a regular basis. I'm looking to play in PFS so I'm mainly interested in functionality from early levels on.
A lot of stuff I've been reading suggests that you should rely primarily on your spells for setting up sneak attacks either via improved invisibility or by stunning or otherwise debuffing foes (Mudball seems solid here) and then targeting flat footed AC with ray spells. Here improved familiars can help with debuffing foes via wands.
The other option is to get into the thick of things yourself and flank foes and then hit em with touch spells. While this is risky buisness due to your s*$&ty defenses the combination of flanking and touch spells means hitting stuff despite your cruddy to hit becomes way more likely. Weapon Finesse is probably essential here. Here you could look to pick up a familiar that supports you in combat I was thinking Valet or Mauler who can function as flanky friends.
Valet Familiar with Feint Partner is pretty nice. Otherwise, you've hit most of my tactics.
If you're going to be debuffing a great deal you might consider witch rather than wizard. The Cartomancer archetype lets you use melee touch spells at range. Just make sure not to get a hex with a save or level-based effect, AT won't advance it
The barrow haze spell kicks in earlier than improved invisibility and enables sneak attacks if the enemy can't see thru it (you can.) This works for wizards or witches, but the latter get a bonus with hexes thru the cloud.
If you're going to be debuffing a great deal you might consider witch rather than wizard. The Cartomancer archetype lets you use melee touch spells at range. Just make sure not to get a hex with a save or level-based effect, AT won't advance it
The barrow haze spell kicks in earlier than improved invisibility and enables sneak attacks if the enemy can't see thru it (you can.) This works for wizards or witches, but the latter get a bonus with hexes thru the cloud.
I like the witch idea (as the spell list offers a bit more versatility) but I was thinking that it's a no go due to the non-scaling Hex DCs (What are good Hexes that don't require a save? The healing one?). Touch spells at range would be sorta nifty, would that work in conjunction with rapid shot with say Chill Touch?
If one chooses the Wizard route is there a best School? Diviner (Foresight) seems like a pretty nice combination of abilities.
Physical Enhancement is also very sexy plus Transmutation spells like beastshape might come in handy as a means of aquiring natural attacks.
Also are there any nice wizard archtypes?
As to the Sneak attack part I'm thinking I'd prefer Rogue to Snakebite Striker for two reasons: Free Weapon finesse feat and Class skills (especially DD).
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On an entirely unrelated note, Magus 4/Snakebite brawler 1/AT X seems like it might be fun.
Agreed with the URogue vs Snakebite. I think Snakebite is better when you care more about the BAB or if you are VMC Rogue.
For Wizard, I do like Exploiter Wizard for Quick Study but I think it is not worth losing a familiar for. If you were to go Wizard 5, that would mix things up and let you get both but otherwise I'd avoid that archetype.
I'm curious if there is anything interesting you can pull from Spirit Whisperer. Likely not, but I'd have to check. Gives access to some Shaman hexes.
The Void Wizard school has a power that scales off Caster Level and a static bonus. Might not be bad.
IMHO, building Arcane Trickster to be awesome at combat is totally missing the point of it. It's like trying to build fighter to be a skill monkey.
What AT does really awesomely is be able to elegantly solve any of the non-combat problems the party has. The more you struggle to make something out of it sneak attack dice, the more you sacrifice resources and options to make it simply less bad at combat relative to any other well-built character. That's not where its magic is, so to speak. Instead of trying like hell to only be the second-worst combatant in your party, be the guy who's aces for everything ELSE.
Thanks for the input folks. I was kinda hoping to make more of a combatant happen but the poor BAB paired with the d6 HD and no FCB makes that a somewhat tricky proposition I guess.
Remember any spell that requires an attackroll is a weaponizable spell and is subjected to sneak attack if you get the requirements for sneak attack down.
Like for example getting sniper goggles, and sniping an enemy from 400+ feet away with an acid arrow.
Or if you're having to deal with low attack bonuses and you can't snipe from that distance, you've got chill touch too.
Dazing Spell (preferably on a Metamagic Rod) will be your friend, even if you end up applying it to an AoE spell (no attack roll, so no Sneak Attack dice), because it will give you easier pickings for Sneak Attacking and/or stealing stuff afterwards (or even just getting by opposition).
By the way, if you do go Vivisectionist Alchemist to get your Sneak Attack, this arhetype stacks with Mindchemist (if you want Cognatogen instead of Mutagen, although beware that Cognatogen leaves behind ability damage after you are done using it, whereas Mutagen doesn't).
The Best AT build is the one that maximize sneak-attack-magic.
High initiative or invisibility + scorching ray can deal ton of damage!
The faster way to get it is 1lv of brawler (the archetype that use sneak attack) 1lv of rogue and 2 level of wizard, with half-elf drow blooded that can use lv2 arcane SLA. You will take AT at lv4!
Admixture school, for circumventing immunities.
Enervation for negative energy sneak damage.
The Best AT build is the one that maximize sneak-attack-magic.
High initiative or invisibility + scorching ray can deal ton of damage!The faster way to get it is 1lv of brawler (the archetype that use sneak attack) 1lv of rogue and 2 level of wizard, with half-elf drow blooded that can use lv2 arcane SLA. You will take AT at lv4!
You can also do it as 1 rogue, 3 wizard by taking the feat that increases your sneak attack by 1d6 at level 3. The feat was basically made for non-rogues who had sneak attack.
ITs from the Dirty Tactics book
For SA the best spell is Flaming Shuriken, since it gives you multiple SA if you launch them 1 per round, compared to Scorching Ray who only deals a single SA per target.
If you want a more "combat" approach, the Blade Adept archetype of the Arcanist might do the trick. You want at least Arcanist 5 to get your first exploit (eldritch blade)
The Best AT build is the one that maximize sneak-attack-magic.
High initiative or invisibility + scorching ray can deal ton of damage!The faster way to get it is 1lv of brawler (the archetype that use sneak attack) 1lv of rogue and 2 level of wizard, with half-elf drow blooded that can use lv2 arcane SLA. You will take AT at lv4!
Unfortunately, using Spell-Like Abilities to lower your spellcasting requirement for entry doesn't work any more, due to this SLA FAQ Nerf (still fairly recent). This used to be really bad until they partially made up for it with the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat (whih is technically not out yet, but the Dirty Tactics Toolbox comes out I think at the end of this month).
If you want a more "combat" approach, the Blade Adept archetype of the Arcanist might do the trick. You want at least Arcanist 5 to get your first exploit (eldritch blade)
Another possibility is to go School Savant (Conjuration/Teleportation) Arcanist and take it all the way to Arcanist level 8 to get the good Teleportation abilities; start out Snakebite Striker Brawler (better hit points and BAB) or Vivisectionist (optionally also Mindchemist(*)) Alchemist (free Brew Potion, Throw Anything(**), a bit of self-healing ability, and Mutagen or Cognatogen) to get your first +1d6 Sneak Attack and go VMC Rogue to get your second +1d6 Sneak Attack (although you might want Accomplished Sneak Attack on top of this to speed up your Sneak Attack progression, even though it is technically overkill).
(*)These Alchemist archetypes can be stacked. But beware that Cognatogen leaves behind ability damage after it is finished, whereas Mutagen (if you don't go Mindchemist) doesn't.
(**)Strangely, Vivisectionist Alchemist doesn't trade out Throw Anything, even though it trades out Bombs.
Unfortunately the sneak attacking wizard runs into the same issue as ranged rogues in getting sneak attacks off.
I think sniping via spells and then greater invis is the easiest fixes.
I'm more of the opinion if you play a Pathfinder A.T. (I've played three A.T.'s over the years) you are essentially the best scout in the game and better off playing as a wizard (due to stat synergy and the ability to switch spell load). What you are NOT is the best combatant. {. . .}
If I was looking at these cheesy new options (Power creep? What power creep?) then I'd play as a Wizard with scouting skills and a slightly slower spell progression. It equates to: a level, a loss of favoured class bonus (ten times) and a feat for a whole load of rogue skills, sneak attack and ranged stealth? I'll take that thank you very much.
For this, you might as well go single class Wizard or Arcanist (or Magus if you want to be less squishy and more combative, or Empyreal Sorcerer worshipping Irori if you want to use Wisdom in the Flesh) and take a trait that gets you Stealth in class. Traits for this:
Slippery for general use
Black Sheep (Titus Scarnetti) in Rise of the Runelords
Conspiracy Hunter in Council of Thieves
Highlander if you are from hills/mountains
Uskwood Hunter if you are from Nidal
Bandit if you are from the River Kingdoms
Swamp Rebel if you are from a swamp and expect to spend a lot of time there
Wisdom in the Flesh if you are a Wisdom-based caster (don't even have tobe arcane) and worship Irori
Add VMC Rogue if you can afford the feats, to get Trapfinding (unless you are in Mummy's Mask, where you can get this as a trait that can even be stacked with the above traits) and add on some Sneak Attack (and eventually some other Rogue defensive abilities, although they come so late that their usefulness is limited).
Unfortunately the sneak attacking wizard runs into the same issue as ranged rogues in getting sneak attacks off.
I think sniping via spells and then greater invis is the easiest fixes.
Sneak attacking wizards can do it from 400+ feet away with proper goggles.
But then there is this..
Gang Up
Maybe not the best feat out there, but it could help a bit.