Suggestions / Houserules for GMing Hell's Rebels


Hell's Rebels

Sczarni

Some background information about myself:
I really, really dislike APs.

I've tried GMing, and I've tried playing, and with different groups each time, but I've never gotten past the second book (usually never even past the first). I ended up having zero interest in Jade Regent. Our Carrion Crown group could never get together, or was always missing someone. The first time I played Kingmaker the GM lost interest. When I GMed Kingmaker the group lost interest.

Those experiences only added to an underlying disdain for prewritten campaigns. I've always been of the mindset that if I'm gathering a group of friends together for a long-term game, it may as well be one of my own creation. Why spend money on someone else's ideas? I've had my own Campaign world for 15 years, and've had several successful long-term games. Why be shackled by someone else's story, when I already have vibrant ideas of my own?

(to those that know me on the forums, these thoughts likely come as a surprise, because I absolutely love PFS. I've been doing it for almost 3 years, have GMed 209 games to date, and have 30 characters. I guess the difference is the term involved. With PFS you're free to come and go, with no obligations. You meet new ppl and encounter builds and tactics that you'd never come up with on your own. Plus, I got addicted to Chronicle Sheets. Anywhom, I recognize my own dichotomy, and I find it interesting as well, but that's off-topic from this off-topic spoiler =P. Just figured I'd address it)

Being aware of my own biases I want to give this AP an honest chance. I was approached by a group of good friends that I regularly PFS with who thought I'd be a great GM for this, and I want to wow them like I do with Society games. So, I wanted to make this thread, but that couldn't happen without first describing a bit about my thoughts and previous experiences with APs.

So, on to rest of my post! If you want to reply to anything in this spoiler, please just spoiler your reply so we can keep the thread on topic.

Thanks in advance!
____________________________________

I wanted to hear thoughts from other GMs about what houserules you were thinking of incorporating for Hell's Rebels.

Any restrictions on books? Themes? Races? Archetypes? Items? Rules?

Any normally optional rules that you think would be especially appropriate for the setting?

After having done PFS for so long, and with my players all coming from PFS, I'm thinking of just abiding by PFS rules for this AP. It's what we all know.

I plan on doing a sit down with the group, probably during character creation, and covering everything up front at once. I'll be picking their brains for things they normally can't do in Society that they may want to do here. One person already wants to use a Gunslinger archetype that's normally not legal. Another person wants to play a Tiefling. I'm sure other normally banned options will surface as well.

So, what would you allow at the table? I'm all ears. I want to be inclusive and foster a fun play experience, but I also don't want things to get out of hand.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You know that you're asking an impossible question, right?

I'm joking slightly, but that's mostly true.

In general I like running APs but you have to take time to make them yours. Go through the plot and figure out what doesn't make sense or what your PCs don't like.

As for books, I allow almost everything from the published hardcover books. If all of your PCs are breaking from PFS you may have a very eclectic group on your hands. That'd rub me the wrong way but maybe you can use that for your story.

Sczarni

If my question was regarding APs in general, then yes, I can see why you'd think it'd be impossible to answer.

But that's not what I asked.

I asked what options other GMs were considering for Hell's Rebels, specifically. This *is* the forum for that type of discussion, after all.

If I had questions about APs in general, I'd post them elsewhere.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

My home group is playing in Rise of the Runelords and Iron Gods right now. Hell's Rebels and Skull & Shackles are probably our next APs. We have already been talking about what house rules we want to use. I'm going to talk about some of the other APs we are playing also, because I think it might help you see how we operate, and it might spawn some ideas for you.

Similar to your situation, our group is composed of a group of friends that met through PFS.

The house rules for Rise of the Runelords (our home group started with this AP) are identical to the PFS rules. Anything PFS-legal is legal in that campaign. 20-point buy, etc.

The Iron Gods game is our favorite campaign. We took a radically different approach to this one. Virtually all races were opened as legal. Even custom races were allowed (with GM approval). We still used 20-point buy, but any race points above 10 RP were deducted from the character's point buy for ability scores.

The other house rule that we have for that game which we will definitely port over to Skull & Shackles (and possibly all future campaigns) is that a player can, at any time, ignore the damage from a single attack/spell/trap/etc. and instead drop their current hp to –1 and auto-stabilize. However, doing so results in a permanent debilitating injury, such as a lost eye or limb (we roll on a table). They can choose to do this even after the damage is rolled.

For Skull & Shackles, we will open up several races (catfolk and gillmen are two that have been requested). We will also change firearms to martial weapons and reduce the price to 1/10 the listed price to make them more common. We all agree that they are too powerful, so we are also changing their critical multiplier from x4 to x2, and we are changing Rapid Reload with paper cartridges to a swift action. All characters must be non-lawful (evil is allowed as long as it doesn't make anyone at the table uncomfortable).

For Hell's Rebels, we will open up races that are thematic to Cheliax. Tieflings will definitely be allowed, but aasimars probably not. We will still be subtracting excess race points from the point-buy pool for abilities. We will also change the crit multiplier for firearms from x4 to x2 and Rapid Reload to a swift action, but they will remain expensive and exotic. The only alignments allowed will be CG, NG, CN, and N (this is based on James Jacobs' statements that the AP is designed for a CG group).

Some other house rules that we use which are not campaign specific:

  • We rarely use a grid. Mostly we just measure with flexible rulers and templates I made for the group.
  • We don't use XP. We level-up at appropriate points in the story.
  • Sometimes we use some form of action points.

I know this was long-winded, but I hope you find something useful in there.

Sczarni

1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Fox wrote:
The only alignments allowed will be CG, NG, CN, and N (this is based on James Jacobs' statements that the AP is designed for a CG group).

I just found this out a couple hours ago. My VC showed me the excerpt from PaizoCon. Definitely doing this (it means no Paladins).

I assumed that levelling up at certain points was the norm, so we'll definitely be doing that as well.

Any other sources specific for this AP that you'd recommend? I simply don't own a lot of splatbooks, and I don't know what's out there. I do own Blood of Fiends, and I like the idea of Tieflings but no Aasimars.

We'll probably be sitting down for character creation in a week or so, and starting either right after that or right after GenCon.

Silver Crusade

I would strongly recommend waiting until you have the Player's Guide before finalizing characters. The PGs are very useful for getting a good coherent group of characters that feel connected to the story.

As to other sources, if you have access to it, you might read through the Council of Thieves AP (or at least the Player's Guide to that AP). There is also the Cheliax player companion and the Inner Sea World Guide.

I'd be interested to hear what characters your group comes up with.

Another thing I just thought of: Skull and Shackles has a mechanic that is almost identical to the Prestige/Fame mechanic of PFS (in S&S it is Disrepute/Infamy). I am hoping that Hell's Rebels has some kind of Prestige/Fame mechanic in it, but if it doesn't I will be adding that in. It will work exactly like in PFS where Fame affects characters' purchasing power and Prestige can be used to call in favors from contacts.

Contributor

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Nefreet wrote:
Any other sources specific for this AP that you'd recommend? I simply don't own a lot of splatbooks, and I don't know what's out there. I do own Blood of Fiends, and I like the idea of Tieflings but no Aasimars.

Well, your first big excursion should probably be the Council of Thieves Adventure Path. Looking through the whole AP can grant you some insight into what a Chelish city can be like and help you set a proper atmosphere and them for Hell's Rebels. Specifically, AP #27 and AP #28 have articles on Hellknights and their orders. Other volumes have interesting articles as well, such as one about tieflings and another about Asmodeus, but most of that info should be already collected and updated in other, newer books.

In the Campaign Setting line, there are a number of good books. Of course, you will always want to start with the Inner Sea World Guide as a basis for understanding the Inner Sea as a whole, and the general history of Cheliax. From there, you can hop over to Inner Sea Gods to learn more about important deities such as Asmodeus, Iomedae, and Aroden. This is also a good book for players who wish to worship a god, especially the more chaotic gods like Cayden Cailean or Desna. Next, you can delve into Hell in Princes of Darkness, which is a book all about the workings of Hell and the devils that live there. Speaking of Hell, the upcoming Hell Unleashed has specific encounters for you to throw into any game that you see fit. It even includes a Hellknight initiation for an player that is interested. Finally, if you can wait for them, Inner Sea Races is due in September and should give you and your players plenty of info not only about the races, but also how to integrate yourself into life in the Inner Sea and know what it means to be a true Chelaxian. Additionally, Cheliax, the Infernal Empire is out in December, which should cover Cheliax as a whole rather in depth.

In the Player Companion line, there a few books to look at. First off is Cheliax, Empire of Devils which is player's look at Cheliax, but also good for GMs. The above mentioned Cheliax campaign book will probably obsolete most of this book, but this should be a good starting point. Your players will most likely want to be part of a city, which is where the upcoming Heroes of the Streets will help with that. From here, it's really up to what your players are interested in. Any religious types will find good options in books like Faiths of Purity or Champions of Purity. Regardless of fighting style, players should find something they like in either Ranged Tactics Toolbox, Melee Tactics Toolbox, or Dirty Tactics Toolbox. Really, there's something for everyone in the Companion books, you just have to know where to look.

As a final reference, anyone looking to become a Hellknight will find the Hellknight prestige class in the Inner Sea World Guide and the Hellknight Signifier prestige class in Paths of Prestige

Anyway, the big thing is informing yourself on what you or your players want to learn more about and going from there. Pathfinder Wiki is a good source, especially as it lists which books it uses as sources, which helps track down information. I would always recommend starting the AP once all six volumes are out, but if you wish to start right away, have your players read the Player's Guide once it's out and use the above resources to get yourself ready for the first adventure.

Good luck!

Sczarni

That's exactly what I was looking for! Thank you!!

I have the Inner Sea World Guide, Inner Sea Gods, and Cheliax, Empire of Devils. I'd be extremely interested in picking up #27 and #28 if they cover Hellknight Orders, so thank you for mentioning them! Princes of Darkness sounds amazing, too.

I think I know how I'll be spending the store credit I get from GMing at GenCon =D.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Also, if you have any questions, I'd like to think I'm something of an expert on Cheliax.

Feel free to post or PM me, if you'd like.

(Donato aced it, by the way - I couldn't have done better myself.)


Here are mine

link

The Exchange

I know this might be a bit late, but my houserules were designed with my number of players in mind.

Gestalt
We rolled for stats in order 4d6 (drop the lowest)
For starting gold we used the combined average of both parent classes
I allowed nearly all the half-human races, including a few races from DSP's Ultimate Psionics.
I allowed Strix, though everyone has to take the wing-clipped alternate racial trait and the "Stretched Wings" feat that negates the trait is minimum level 3 (I added a pre-requisite of Fly 3 Ranks)
Oh, I allowed Ultimate Psionics classes and options (this goes back to me having psionics sort of invade Golarion before Occult Adventures came out)

For another houserule I'm thinking of implementing (following occult adventures psychic magic) is seperating classes like Druid, Ranger, Bard, Witch, and shaman into "Primal" or "World Magic" this is just a thought experiment at this point, however.

Silver Crusade

I'll be GMing for the first time with Hell's Rebels.

House-rules thus far are everything is legal so long as it is official Pathfinder sources. No ownership of materials necessary so long as info can be found online. Plus I made all of my pdfs available to the party.

20 pt buy, no custom races/classes or Unchained mechanics (classes are ok), 150 starting gp. I was originally planning a PFS hp progression but players were interested in modified rolling. So they have the option of either at each level.

I asked the players to provide their builds and background in advance so I can try to incorporate it into the story if I can.

There have been some inquiries about using stat substitutions as part of the Rebellion checks if a player has a trait or class feature that alters social skills (bruising intellect, conversion inquisition, etc). I'm allowing the sub on team leader event checks if they can make a case and rp how their skills should apply to a situation. However, I'm not allowing the sub for Officer bonuses at this time.


Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote:

Here are mine

link

Excellent! I pondered over the exact issues for a long while. So amazing that a kindred soul is out there. :)


Scharlata wrote:
Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote:

Here are mine

link

Excellent! I pondered over the exact issues for a long while. So amazing that a kindred soul is out there. :)

Do I remember correctly that you and I also ran Council of Thieves? Welcome back if that's the case. My name was rkraus back then, before Paizo changed it.


But why did Paizo change it?


I signed up for Pathfinder Online with a different email address than I used for the message boards. This, apparently, caused everything to go to shit.

This was their fix, and it amused me so I left it.


Nice!


I make all Tieflings take a homebrew racial trait I call Bastard of Humanity; see Scion of Humanity for the Aasimar.

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