What information from 3.5 material is noncanonical?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


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So I just found out that "Guardians of Dragonfall" is noncanonical to golarion, so that means there's no "Dragon Graveyard" in Golarion. That being said, I'm wondering what other bits of information are noncanonical? I just read through "Classic Monsters Revisited" and noticed that there are a branch of purple worms that tunnel through "Golarion's rotten core", yet canonically the core of Golarion is where Rovagug is, and if purple worms can eat through it, Rovagug shouldn't be able to.

What other noncanonical things should I look out for?


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Dot for future reference for my purposes myself.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nothing from 3.5 is canonical unless it's referenced by Pathfinder-era material. Elves of Golarion is... subject to modifications, anything that violates present canon like Guardians of Dragonfall, is not.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Also curious.

That said, regarding purple worms, I was curious about that too. Apparently, though, Rovagug's prison isn't physically in the center of the Cage, but a demiplane. Which is kind of there. It's all very confusing. ^_^

Sovereign Court

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Hmm. I always assumed most / if not everything from the following 3.5 books was canonical.

-Guide to Korvosa
-Guide to Darkmoon Vale
-Gods and Magic
-Into The Darklands
-Guide to Absalom
-Dark Markets - Katpesh
-The Great Beyond

Sczarni

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LazarX wrote:
Nothing from 3.5 is canonical unless it's referenced by Pathfinder-era material. Elves of Golarion is... subject to modifications, anything that violates present canon like Guardians of Dragonfall, is not.

More the other way around. 90+% of the 3.5 material is canonical unless invalidated by a more recent source. even then the 3.5 material may be correct and the new source wrong.

Guardians of Dragonfall had an issue of being released 5 months before the Gazetteer for Golarion was even printed. So how many things worked in Golarion wasn't set in stone yet. Most of the things that were 'retconned out' are from this time. The really interesting thing is that Dragonfall is one of the few things that actually got actively taken off the map. most retcons in Golarion just do not get mentioned again. There are very few things that are 'erased' most are 'forgotton'

see a similar thread to this one from 2013 where James explains the creative team's views on the subject of retcons, or This thread specifically on Dragonfall.

other Retcons I can think of:
*Queen Abrogail II of Cheliax being a 'Child Queen'
*Existence of Paladins of Asmodeus
*Some of Dragons of Golarion (same reason as dragonfall)
*Existance of the Darklight Sisterhood
* a Ghostbusters easter egg that snuck by the editors.
*Achekek's stat block (I think)
*The Ban on worship of Sarenrae in Taldor
* some of Erastil's more sexist teachings
*How old guns in Golarion are
*Humor dragons based on the 4 temperaments from pathfinder AP #4
*Slight edits to the calender to make months more closely mirror our own
*Seeker of Secrets had quite a few clerical errors on locations of people, and dates that needed to be corrected.
*I think the big cannons captured by the Gorilla King have been removed to fit Golarion's Firearms level.

That's the end of my 1 hour editing window... so I'm goin to stop looking for more examples

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I can't think of much off the top of my head. Most of it it is small details that have been updated or gone away. I do remember Bloodsworn Vale getting moved (geographically speaking), or rather, adjusted. Dragonfall is the major thing I remember getting chopped.

-Skeld


That's actually disappointing. I was really getting into the lore of Dragonfall, too. Hm.


So, for those of us that have no idea what Dragonfall is, care to fill us in? Or at least point us to where that info is?

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Things that never happened!


Well, how about that. I suppose it's good that there isn't some advancing Golarion timeline or something, what with an entire modules just going *poof*.


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Cpt_kirstov wrote:
*I think the big cannons captured by the Gorilla King have been removed to fit Golarion's Firearms level.

Those are still canon (ha!). They are referenced in the ISWG, and possibly elsewhere. (Though I think it may only be one cannon, not two?)

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Albatoonoe wrote:
So, for those of us that have no idea what Dragonfall is, care to fill us in? Or at least point us to where that info is?

It's like an elephant graveyard for dragons. Or something. I never liked the idea, so I didn't pay much attention to it at them time.

-Skeld


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Now I want to know what this ghostbusters easter egg was.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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I believe it was a reference to something ancient and Sumerian. Could be wrong, though - it's one of those facts that just won't stay in my head. ^_^


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Quote:
Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!

A "slohr" trampled the Arthfell forest in 3537 AR.


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Quick use of the search function comes up with this for the Ghostbusters Easter egg.


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Awesome.


I always thought getting bent out of shape at the slohr thing was weird, it's not like 80% of everything else in D&D/PF/Golarion isn't stolen from some other source somewhere. We've got Cthulhus coming out our butts, and Godzillas, but not a slohr...


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Cthulhu's public domain (and thus belongs to all of us! yay!), while Godzilla isn't actually in Pathfinder - just King Mogaru, a open homage to the King of Monsters. Mogaru's clearly and obviously inspired by Godzilla, but Mogaru is not actually Godzilla.

Which is an important, because if Paizo actually stuck Godzilla into the game without Toho's permission, Toho would be obligated to force Paizo to take Godzilla back out (or force a licensing agreement, that would heavily favor Toho).

Because copyright & trademark law requires the holder to actively defend its trademark/copyright. I'm overly simplifying, but if you fail to defend your trademark/copyright, then you risk losing it.

In other words, putting someone else's intellectual property into your game without their permission means you're picking a legal battle.

Which is why Paizo's so leery of Easter eggs that could force them to have to, say, recall products to avoid said legal battle.

It's also why you'll sometimes see creatures in the AP bestiaries that never make it into the hardback Bestiaries. Stuff like the Deepcrow or the Dark Young are someone else's intellectual property, and while Paizo has permission to put those creatures in certain products, it's only for those products. Adding any creatures like that to the PRD without the creator's permission would be an enormous mess.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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Ghostbusters itself used the Stay Puft Marshmallow man instead of the Pillsbury Doughboy.


The alignment of the nation Hermea is listed in 3.5 campaign setting. PF is silent on the alignment.

That books also references psionics I think.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Thanael wrote:

The alignment of the nation Hermea is listed in 3.5 campaign setting. PF is silent on the alignment.

That books also references psionics I think.

Psionics is definitely retconned out.

As for Hermea... even the staff can't agree on an alignment. James Sutter and James Jacobs are the primary ones involved there, I believe. ^_^


This is an interesting u=and useful discussion.

I wish Golarion did have a dragon's graveyard, well maybe Triaxus does:)

Silver Crusade Contributor

Well, they can't stop you from using Guardians of Dragonfall. ^_^


Seems that canon only applies if you're playing Pathfinder Society games, writing campaign setting material for Paizo, or writing fiction for Paizo (or either of those for Wayfinder). Otherwise, what does it really matter?

Edit: Or if you're trying to win the post-banquet trivia contest at Paizocon.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The juju witchdoctor archetype used to be able to create neutral or even good aligned undead.

That was retconned back out to the standard "All normal undead are Evil unless specific circumstances such as some few ghosts or spirits."

==Aelryinth


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Shadowborn wrote:

Seems that canon only applies if you're playing Pathfinder Society games, writing campaign setting material for Paizo, or writing fiction for Paizo (or either of those for Wayfinder). Otherwise, what does it really matter?

Edit: Or if you're trying to win the post-banquet trivia contest at Paizocon.

Totally agree,

And any mention of moving away from canonical sources is countered by "what about PFS." There seems to be a 'you are allowed to do that/you are not allowed to do that" kind of sub-culture in Pathfinder games or at least promoted by (some?) people that play them.

Hopefully Pathfinder Unchained will get more people to 'break the rules.'

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Canon is also our common denominator. If you start citing crazy examples, and then say "in my home campaign", we can all agree it's off the common ground.

So, yeah, canon has to stay canon for internet common ground. You're always welcome to change what you like, but there MUST be a common baseline everyone can refer to.

==Aelryinth

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