The vagaries of the spell are unclear enough that I think this warrants a FAQ response.
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Polymorph general rules override the material component. The piece of creature is enough to take the form of that creature subtype, but not enough to take a specific form, because nothing, not even Shapechage can do that.
Let's say you have a lock of hair from Captain Jack Sparrow. You can use that as an Alter Self component, taking the form of a human, but you cannot take the form of Jack Sparrow the individual. You would get pretty close however, granting a +10 on disguise checks to pass as Captain Jack Sparrow per the Disguise skill.
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I don't think you get +10 to your disguise check to appear as Captain Jack Sparrow. You get +10 to your disguise check to appear human.
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
The piece of the creature does not allow you to take the specific form of the creature itself, only to become "a generic member of that creature's type."
Imbicatus, specific rules overrides more general rules. Therefore, why do you think the specific spell entry wouldn't take precedent over the general rules found in the Magic chapter?
And why is that not a clear answer to you? General rules DO apply unless specific cases state otherwise.
The blurb in the material component line isn't specific enough for you?
Seeing that whose is the possessive form of who, to me, the line with the material component indicates that its from a specific person and thus will give a specific form.
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Because nothing in Alter Self indicates you can assume the form of a specific creature. to over-ride the general rules it would need to be spelled out. The material component is simply not enough to over-ride the general rules. It's certainly not ambiguous enough to raise it to FAQ.
Because nothing in Alter Self indicates you can assume the form of a specific creature.
Then what's this?
If not an indication that you can take the form of a specific creature?
Where does it say "you can take the form of a specific creature"?
'Material Component' is not rules as to how the spell works.
It was my understanding that everything in a spell was the "rules on how it works."
So if someone has a wand of alter self, are they only able to take one specific form set at the time of item creation? What about a Sorcerer who casts the spell with eschew materials? How about a Druid using the 10,000 Faces SLA of Alter Self?
As you've shown, there is obviously need of official clarification. The situations you outlined are only a few of the gray areas that could be cleared up by an official response.
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Maybe create a skill unlock (5 ranks in Disguise or Craft [sculpture]) to allow the caster of alter self or disguise self to duplicate a specific individual?
I don't see how this could be any clearer. The polymorph rules are clear that you can't be a specific creature unless it says, and alter self doesn't say that.
Material components without a cost can safely be considered pure fluff and are assumed to be present in spell component pouches. The idea that a material component description would majorly change way a spell works is ludicrous.
It's not clear, because the specific of the spell materials could trump the general of polymorph. Personally, I feel the intent is for you to not take the appearance of a specific person, but you can't say that it's not questionable.
I would like to point out that if we go by the general polymorph rules and ignore the part on the material component, a Greater Hat of Disguise won't actually be able to do what it's supposed to do.
Therefore, I think RAI should be to allow Alter Self to assume specific forms just like the material components suggest, and thus this is worth FAQ-ing. RAW, of course, is leaning on the general polymorph rules.
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It's because of the use of the word "form" - which, in this case, does not mean the appearance of a specific individual but of their shape, their type or subtype. You can take on the form of a wolf. You can take on the form of a human, or elf, or orc. You take on their shape: bipedal, what-have-you. To interpret it as "take on the shape and appearance of a specific creature" - a wolf with a scar or a specific individual - is because you have an agenda behind doing so, not because the spell is unclear.
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I feel there is absolutely no way a 2nd level spell should be able to do something a 9th level spell cannot, even if you have the still-beating heart of the person you are trying to imitate as a component.
Polymorph spells cannot be used to take the form of a specific individual, only a generic member of that species.
Polymorph spells cannot be used to take the form of a specific individual, only a generic member of that species.
That rule is meaningless when "specific trumps general" though. What's really in question is "What is the true meaning of the text in the spell's componenets?". Personally, I think it's just fluff, but to say that it is "clear" is wrong. It is vague and that's ok. Things can be vague. That's why we have rule 0.
I would however expect most GMs to agree that the intent is that you don't take on the appearance of a specific person. If this were the intent it should have been stated in the spell's description instead of just in the components line.
The material component for the spell is for taking the shape of the general TYPE of creature of the form you wish to assume.
Nothing in the spell uses the word TYPE. You are making an unsupported assumption.
Eschew Materials just means you can cast a spell without the material. Not that you have to. If you use EM you could easily assume that you would simply use the most generic person for the effects of the spell.
I would read it as "...of the creature type whose form you plan to assume." (Italics are my additional word)
Human for human, orc for orc, etc.
I have read it thus, while GMing.
I can see that other readings are possible.
In the spirit of a specific home game, I might rule (or expect a ruling) that the spell allows closer approximation, perhaps with the copy-target alive and on hand (perhaps literally). But I think the existing bonus to disguise checks satisfies both logics: [you have shapechanged to look like the target] AND [Shapechange can never be perfect]. Because +whatever to a skill roll is not ever 'perfect'.
Like I said, it's because of the use of the word: "form".
Whether or not the spell description said: "a piece of THE creature whose form you plan to assume" or "a piece of A creature whose form you plan to assume," people would argue that "form = specific creature/person" if that's what they want to be able to do. "Hey! That's what I mean by 'form'! I take on their form - their features, height, weight, everything!"
What needs to be clarified is the meaning of the word "form" in this usage.
I go with Trekkie90909 on this one due to the referenced Kitsune Feat:
When you are in human form, you can take the shape of a specific individual.Prerequisites: Kitsune.
Benefit: You can precisely mimic the physical features of any individual you have encountered. When you use your racial change shape ability, you can attempt to take the form of an individual, granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks made to fool others with your impersonation.
Here, they specify "of a specific individual." Granted, rules written at different times by different people will have varying degrees of clarity and RAI, so this doesn't establish the original RAI of Alter Self.
FAQ'd.
The Kitsune example would be more supportive if it wasn't a spell-like ability. Being a spell-like it couldn't use the material component, and would be stuck being a generic "form".
I still believe the intent is for the spell to also be "generic", but there is only circumstantial evidence to support this.
But that's the point of the argument. The spell doesn't specifically say it overrides the restriction on polymorph spells, but implies it with the word "form" which doesn't have an in game definition.
To rule in either way is to make an assumption. So, just make the assumption that makes the most sense to you.
"Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals."
They wrote that because they knew people would debate on the meaning of "form." So unless the spell - or, in this case, the material component - specifies that you CAN, you can't.
Your GM is in the right to rule it how he sees fit. At best, the spell is vague, meaning it could be interpreted either way. Your GM picked a way, and in his games that's how it is intended to work.
I am wondering if anyone has an example of any other spell where the material component description alone greatly alters the rules on what a spell can do?
To the best of my knowledge, the spell text is what matters. If a spell is going to have specific rules that overwrite general, then they have to be in the spell text.
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Ofcourse, if i ran the game i'd rule it was like i read it, but my GM reads it another way AND refuses to acknowledge that it can be read in both ways. I dont have the spell on my character, nor do i need it, its purely a matter of principle now and, regardless of our childish dispute, the spell still needs an official ruling, because if i am right in my assumption that it can mimic a specific individual, the spell will finally get to a power level where its actually a decent level 2 spell, worth picking up for even spontaneous casters, depending on what you try to accomplish with your character. Disguise Self does the same, for 10 times the duration granting a spell save/skillcheck and at level 1 instead of 2.
You're kidding, right? Alter Self is already one of the most powerful 2nd level spells there is. It gives you a bonus to STR and three Natural Attacks. It's a low level combat monster and one of the best personal buff spells of that level.
A more reasonable interpretation of the material component is that it would serve as a limitation on what humanoid forms you can assume. Do you want to assume the form of a human? We have one in the party who gave the caster a hair or fingernail clipping. Do you want to assume the form of an elf? The caster is one, so ditto. Do you want to assume the form of a kobold? The party killed several of them a while back, so the caster gathered what he needed from their corpses. Do you want to assume the form of one of the lizardfolk we are now encountering? No can do since these are the first lizardfolk the party has ever encountered -- but no problem after you kill them off in this encounter. Do you want to assume the form of a kasatha? No, because in character the caster has never even met one.
A more reasonable interpretation of the material component is that it would serve as a limitation on what humanoid forms you can assume. Do you want to assume the form of a human? We have one in the party who gave the caster a hair or fingernail clipping. Do you want to assume the form of an elf? The caster is one, so ditto. Do you want to assume the form of a kobold? The party killed several of them a while back, so the caster gathered what he needed from their corpses. Do you want to assume the form of one of the lizardfolk we are now encountering? No can do since these are the first lizardfolk the party has ever encountered -- but no problem after you kill them off in this encounter. Do you want to assume the form of a kasatha? No, because in character the caster has never even met one.
Those would be interesting house rules, but that is indeed what they are. The actual rule is that you can assume that you have any costless material component in your spell component pouch.
I do think it reasonable that extremely unusual creatures (kasatha might be a good example) would be an appropriate limitation in some cases, but in general, if you want to assume a form with alter self and you have a spell component pouch (or eschew materials etc.) then you can assume that form.