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Okay I have a game idea where the party becomes undead in the game. This will be either a zombie lord or similar undead. I still am deciding wether or not I should allow others such as liches and vampires. I may also go for a lycanthropy based campaign, and I just wanted some advice on the situation.
One idea is to create a couple of races that the party will be converted to. There is also a Savage Worlds setting called Accursed where the characters are all monsters seeking redemption in a world where the big bads have already won.
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Plus the 3.0 Savage Species and the 3.5 Ghostwalker. In any case, I'm interested.
If you're accepting ideas, I'd be in for a vampire -- young and weak compared to the Strahds, Draculas, Lestats and other ancient vampire badd-asses. Maybe just a solid template equal to the other PC's Templates, then add Class Levels upon gaining XP...
Would we be in Golarion, Faerun, Greyhawk or another well-known setting, or Homebrew all the way?
I've always wanted to run a game like that - particularly playing as Undead.
Zombie Lord is probably a good idea for those, it seems pretty reasonable. For the Lycanthrope route, I (not too toot my own horn) Made a race up, based around the Kitsune. It's a bit weaker than some, but that can help keep from being overpowered. I wanted it able to be used alongside some other races. It would be pretty easy to add a few more things to it if the entire party was going that route, though. Rynjin also has a great Dhampir alternative, that could be pretty solid for a Vampire game.
I like the idea, but I think that each person should be transformed in a way that fits their personality. A wizard might become a ghost, a dexterous rogue becomes skeletal, etc.
If the party stays good-aligned (which may mean overriding the alignment changes on certain templates), then healing becomes more difficult. You might have people become positive energy powered undead like Eberron's Deathless.
Of course becoming evil has it's own advantages, but I'd like to know that ahead of time.
If you decide not to go undead, you might look at the animal lord or avowed reaver templates. These let the entire party be changed in different ways using the same template.
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Plus the 3.0 Savage Species and the 3.5 Ghostwalker. In any case, I'm interested.
If you're accepting ideas, I'd be in for a vampire -- young and weak compared to the Strahds, Draculas, Lestats and other ancient vampire badd-asses. Maybe just a solid template equal to the other PC's Templates, then add Class Levels upon gaining XP...
Would we be in Golarion, Faerun, Greyhawk or another well-known setting, or Homebrew all the way?
I am likely to just homebrew. I can create races and then place them on my character page quite easily. As for the ghostwalker, I do like the class but will likely not allow it in my campaign.
Also the variation in different templates depends on the level. If were 5th level, then the difference between a zombie and a vampire is huge. At 15th, not so much.
I'd like to play an evil cleric trying to raise the undead army.
an idea you could play (along the lines of the lycanthrope route)... would be, under certain conditions (night time, full moon, temperature, possession of cursed item, ect.) the players change into an undead, were-, monstrous form. (i.e. crew of the black pearl in pirates of the carribean)
easily done by adding template (undead, vampire, were-) to standard characters.
you could start with the characters being: bitten, infected, cursed, ect., and then have the game progress with them either trying to "cure" themselves or embracing the change and learning how to harness their new forms. Searching for the source or cause of the "alternate form", in an attempt to either cure it, or enhance it.
Lots of interesting ideas with this.
If you go for homebrew, maybe set it up like mythic tiers with abilities to be chosen along the way.
That should keep it from becoming overpowered the way full on templates usually do.
i ether case i like this idea, and i do like what dragon said about making it be tiers or it could be that we gain a free feat progression as in Way of the wicked for the vampire chain i think it wold just be a few adjustments to make it work for other undead or lycan type characters
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If you go for homebrew, maybe set it up like mythic tiers with abilities to be chosen along the way.
That should keep it from becoming overpowered the way full on templates usually do.
Great idea, I'll look at mythic and try to base something off of that. If it doesn't work, I'll modify some templates and perhaps add some changes
All right. If you do go the template route, just try to make sure that there aren't big disparities between them.
A zombie master next to a skeletal champion works just fine, for example, but a ghost, a skeletal champion, a lich and a vampire is a sure recipe for someone being under- and/or over-powered.
Meanwhile, a lich, a death knight and a vampire will probably work out fine.
Having some templates make you start at a lower level than others will usually either over-shoot the power disparity, making the powerful templated characters extremely fragile, or it will be too few levels to make a difference. A death knight fighter 1 is a lot more powerful than a skeletal champion fighter 2, for example.
On the homebrew, I think if I were setting it up like mythic, I'd give out 5hp per tier, whatever scaling stat boosts you deem fitting (none at all is absolutely an option) and then each level let people pick from a list of abilities relevant to their type of undead, arranged into panels of 'least', tier 1-3 abilities, 'lesser', tier 4-6, and 'greater', tier 7-10.
'least' abilities might include such things as bonus feats, natural attacks and damage reduction 5, for example.
I might be interested. Dot!
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All right. If you do go the template route, just try to make sure that there aren't big disparities between them.
A zombie master next to a skeletal champion works just fine, for example, but a ghost, a skeletal champion, a lich and a vampire is a sure recipe for someone being under- and/or over-powered.
Meanwhile, a lich, a death knight and a vampire will probably work out fine.
Having some templates make you start at a lower level than others will usually either over-shoot the power disparity, making the powerful templated characters extremely fragile, or it will be too few levels to make a difference. A death knight fighter 1 is a lot more powerful than a skeletal champion fighter 2, for example.
On the homebrew, I think if I were setting it up like mythic, I'd give out 5hp per tier, whatever scaling stat boosts you deem fitting (none at all is absolutely an option) and then each level let people pick from a list of abilities relevant to their type of undead, arranged into panels of 'least', tier 1-3 abilities, 'lesser', tier 4-6, and 'greater', tier 7-10.
'least' abilities might include such things as bonus feats, natural attacks and damage reduction 5, for example.
I was thinking to give things that are obvious for the template first. For example, vampire drink blood, so they start with that, skeleton are nothing but bones, so they begin with blunt DR.
However the teir idea is great. If you would help me with that I can get this campaign actually going
I may also begin vampire with the vampire spawn template.
I may also start at lvl 5,
I'll dot interest as well.
There is always the Obitu as well? Although, the other races are much more powerful ... :-)
If we are mixing supernaturals, are part of some sort of Cabal?
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Characters will be part of a kingdom where undead have come into dominant control. The particular setup will be similar to thay in faerun. The leader possibly a powerful lich/vampire/dacolich. You may or may not be with or against the order, but very likely with. However a more powerful undead lord will be using you like puppets or such.
I will be using pathfinder with a few house rules, but nothing too big.
Roger, sounds great! A Dracolich sounds great for a leader or maybe a council?
So DM Waz Up, can I be a Blood Knight to drive all of the vampires into a blood frenzy? ... LOL
Of course, I wouldn't mind playing the race but I wouldn't play it to cause more chaos in the campaign.
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Here are may starting traits so far
starting traits
Vampire: Blood Drain (Su): A vampire can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage. The vampire heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit points) each round it drains blood.
Gains normal vampire weakness
Lich: Rejuvenation (Su): When a lich is destroyed, its phylactery (which is generally hidden by the lich in a safe place far from where it chooses to dwell) immediately begins to rebuild the undead spellcaster's body nearby. This process takes 1d10 days—if the body is destroyed before that time passes, the phylactery merely starts the process anew. After this time passes, the lich wakens fully healed (albeit without any gear it left behind on its old body), usually with a burning need for revenge against those who previously destroyed it.
Gain a phylactery, and normal lich weakness
ghouls: paralysis touch(Ex): unarmed attacks can paralyze non-elf foes for 1d4+1/4 hit die rounds. DC:10+1/2 hit die+ cha mod.
Wraith/ghost: Incorporeal Subtype: An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality.
Normal weaknesses
Masked dead:
Golden mask: your soul is trapped inside a mask made of gold or other valuable metal. You posses the body of whatever you are placed on. Subject must be your base race, or similar.( Ex. With human as a base race you may take the body of a humanoid with the human subtype) body must also be dead.
You also get normal undead traits, and I will add more as I progress in the creation of the world
Cool, looks good. You have to admit, playing a Blood Knight around vampires would be pretty amusing though? ... lol
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So DM Waz Up, can I be a Blood Knight to drive all of the vampires into a blood frenzy? ... LOL
Of course, I wouldn't mind playing the race but I wouldn't play it to cause more chaos in the campaign.
No, I don't think that would work well
Also, for the skeletal champ, I will add the possibility to be a bloody/flaming skeleton.
No, I don't think that would work well
Also, for the skeletal champ, I will add the possibility to be a bloody/flaming skeleton.
I agree but I laughed when I saw it.
I figure the tier thing could work something like this;
Undead Tiers
At first tier, Choose one type of undead creature. You gain Undead Traits, and the Starting Traits of the chosen undead.
At first tier, and every time you increase in tier, you gain 5hp, and may choose an ability from the Ability List. In addition, you gain a +1 inherent bonus to a statistic of your choice at tiers 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9.
Ability List
You have a primary bite attack, dealing normal damage for a creature of your size. Should you have the blood drain ability, you also inflict 1 point of constitution damage to creatures with blood when you hit with your bite attack.
Prerequisite Corporeal undead.
Claws (Ex)
You have two primary claw attacks, dealing normal damage for a creature of your size.
Prerequisite Corporeal undead.
Cold Immunity (Ex)
You become immune to cold damage.
Dark Warrior (Ex)
You gain two feats from the following list as bonus feats;
Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Mounted Combat, Toughness
Special This ability may be taken up multiple times.
Dominate (Su)
You can crush a humanoid opponent's will as a standard action. Anyone You target must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the your influence, as though by a dominate person spell (caster level equal to your character level). The ability has a range of 30 feet.
Prerequisites Tier 7, Vampire, Ghost or Masked Dead.
Energy Drain (SU)
Once per round, when you hit with a melee natural or weapon attack, you inflict 2 negative energy levels upon your target. If the target is a living creature, you gain 10 temporary hit points. These are subject to the same rules as those derived from Blood Drain, should you have that ability. Otherwise they do not stack, and fade away after one hour.
Prerequisite Tier 4.
Fast Healing
You gain fast healing equal to your tier.
Prerequisite Tier 4.
Rejenuvation
Choose a site to which your spirit is connected. If reduced to 0hp, you are not destroyed. Instead, your spirit reforms at the chosen location after 1d4 days.
Prerequisite Tier 4, Incorporeal
Telekinesis
You may use Telekinesis as a spell-like ability at will.
Prerequisites Incorporeal, Tier 7.
Telepathy
You can communicate telepathically with any creature within 60 feet that speaks the same language it does. In addition, you can use this ability to communicate with any animal, magical beast, or vermin.
Prerequisites Tier 4.
Undead Armor (Ex)
You gain Natural Armor equal to your tier and damage reduction equal to twice your tier. The type of damage reduction depends on your undead type:
Liches have damage reduction overcome by bludgoning and magic weapons.
Ghouls have damage reduction overcome by slashing and magic weapons.
Vampires have damage reduction overcome by silver weapons.
Prerequisite Corporeal undead.
Unholy Resistance (SU)
You gain Channel Resistance equal to your tier and Spell Resistance equal to 10+twice your tier.
And so on and so forth. I figure other people can give input on this too. Maybe there should be a normal feat that allows you to pick up an additional ability.
There's probably a ton of other abilities that could/should be added. All of the ghost stuff, for example, and the various vampire abilities, et al.
That link doesn't seem to work. Is this still open?