Reward Systems and Pushing Product


Pathfinder Society

2/5

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Paizo needs to sell their products and PFS is supposed to help them do that, largely via the rule that each player has to possess, either on pdf or hardcopy, every book that their characters' draw rules from.

This rule is understandable, but increasingly impractical as the proliferation of books marches on. If you like using pdfs of everything anyway, maybe its fine for you. But if you're someone (like me) who likes having hardcopies, it's annoying having to face the choice of either buying everything twice or else carting around a truly unwieldy pack of books to every game. It's especially frustrating since it is entirely unnecessary: The truth is that at this point the pfsrd site is actually a better resource than the pdfs, since they update based on errata and even thread commentary from devs.

So I say get rid of the "must own/present the books" rule in PFS. Now, "that's all well and good," Paizo may respond, "but then how do we use PFS to sell product?" Well, I have an idea for that, too: Boons.

The way it works is this: Each Paizo product, whether purchased hardcopy or on pdf, will come with a code that can be redeemed in the PFS section of the website. The code will then randomly select three possible boons that the player can choose from. The player chooses his boon and then prints it out. The boon sheet has his PFS number included on it, so he can not simply make a bunch of copies and give them out; the boon only works for one specific character.

The boons available will be stuff people really want. Some ideas:

1. Races- There would be boons allowing players to build characters of various races. PFS would stop allowing non-core races altogether, except via these boons. Thus the approximate number of weird races could be controlled, and you wouldn't get the phenomenon of an inexplicable influx of X race each season. You could even have a few ultra-rare race boons floating around that allowed play as a centaur or an ogre mage or something.

2. Companions and Familiars- There would be boons allowing the selection of cool familiars and animal companions, like the faerie dragon, owlbear, hippogriff etc.

3. "Cameo Characters"- These boons would allow the creation of a level (randomly generated from 4-11) character that would not earn XP or level up, but which could be played (randomly generated from 1-6) times before being permanently retired. This would let players play around with interesting character and build concepts that they like, but which they might not be interested in committing a lot of time to.

4. NPC Codex Pregens- These boons would allow the player to use a specific character from the NPC codex in place of the usual pregens of a specific level. For instance, you might receive a boon that allowed you to play Meliski Traundor the Gambler (pg. 30) anytime you would normally have the option of using a level 7 pregen.

5. Unique/Sentient Magic Items- These boons would make interesting magic items available to the character for purchase.

6. Misc- All kinds of other stuff.

Note that none of these boons actually increase the power of the characters played; they just provide interesting options. Releasing these sorts of options in this way would make them feel special to the players that have them, would make unique-option proliferation more controllable (since the number of X option available could be set by the computer program that gives out boons), and would push product very effectively assuming people were excited about the boons available. Anyway, that's the idea.

5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The bigger your geek back, the less likely you are to be audited for anything.

Now if only I knew how to stop a donkey from leaving presents for the clean up crew...

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

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Another thing to consider when discussing this is that while various srd sites may have accurate information about feats and options, they also have the possibility of being innaccurate by the same virtue that also makes them accessible-they're fan made and fan run.

As a GM, I'd rather have obscure resources presented to me from Paizo product, because I can easily verify their authenticity. And if you've ever run several high tier tables at a convention, you're going to encounter strange new rules. Aside from that, I am always dubious whenever someone's only resources are from d20pfsrd. I've also noticed that newer players assume 3PP content is OK for PFS when they rely solely on that website.

Those would be my primary concerns as a GM. Now if the Paizo PRD included all their obscure source material... That would be another thing. Perhaps offer a "members only" PRD that subscribers get access to for free? Or charge an annual fee to access? No reason that couldn't be allowed as an additional resource IMO.

Dark Archive

I think this boat has sailed and will not be diverted off course.

It may be feasible for Paizo to keep track and reward boons for PDF purchases. In a way they already do that by allowing us to download any of our PDF any day we log in. This would be asking them to do extra work for old sales that never produce another penny. But even if people held on to their brick and mortar store receipts all these years, you cannot realistically expect Paizo to be willing to figure out a solution for the headache for crediting all those purchases. Even for new purchases, think how much this would be a.pain for them.

You seem to have faith in the idea that people will pay for a paper book when they get an extra minor boon from it. I don't have that same faih in humanity, not even in the tabletop RPG portion of it. I see way to many who just want as much as they can get for free and never want to pay for anything.

Do you mean the d20pfsrd site? If so, I disagree about how.good you think pfsrd is, especially for PFS which is where you want to use it. That site changes text to avoid copyright infringement. For example, instead of a Sarenrae focused dervish, it has dervish of the dawn presented completely removing the flavor of the go.it was.designed for. Present that to the GM and they have no way of realign people who hate that god, like.many taldans might hate that dervish.of the dawn. I don't necessarily believe every thematic archetype/presticlass, ect has bias towards them as part of the balance factor, but you are preventing that GM from getting the full story. I know you think flavor text if rules ate meaningless but that is nit how Paizo chooses to sell their product. If they did, you would see more than totally generic products and a lot less golarion themed rules mechanics. I dislike how many rules are setting themed instead of generic, the whole Inner Sea Gods book for example but they Re selling those parts as a theme mechanic hybrid, not seperately. It is one thing to present material and get that campaigns GM to houserule away or change the flavor if something, but that is not what PFS is for.

I did like some.of your boon reward ideas. Especially the cameo PCs, though I tnink a level range of 3-7 would be better, too many people ate incapable of handling a higher level character because they misunderstand too many of the rules tbat no one corrected them on whilel leveling up, more likely the higher level you go.Too many boons are so marginal or so corner case that many seem like a waste of paper.

I am thankful I can just bring the PDF. I would expect a printout of those specific used pages to prevent problems at all the.places people game with no WiFi or when someone shows up with a dead.battery.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Erick Wilson wrote:
The way it works is this: Each Paizo product, whether purchased hardcopy or on pdf, will come with a code that can be redeemed in the PFS section of the website.

This is where such proposals (e.g. to have PDF download codes given away with books bought from FLGSs) have failed in the past. Paizo has no way of reliably and securely distributing those codes to the consumer.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Without really looking at the merits of your boons (those are very much a separate issue, this would only really help those who like physical books. For those who buy PDFs nothing changes.

The "just add a code to the book" idea has been used quite a bit when discussing ways to give players who purchase the physical version the pdf too, thus solving a number of issues.

The problem however, would be, that this would force Paizo to shrink wrap every book and/or add some sort of code that you have to scratch off.

Frankly most FLGS hate the idea, since people really want to browse in a book, and this makes the idea of buying and returning a book pretty complicated (not unlike the sale of boxed copies of computer games).

Having to own the source is a hassle, but frankly if you are unwilling or unable to bring the physical books, 50 $ is enough for a pretty large number of characters (when you buy a select number of PDFs).

---

Personally I would prefer a way for VOs or even VLs to sign your books (inside the front cover, with a pretty obnoxious pen so it can't be removed) and give you a certificate that you own the material. After you have that, you are allowed to use the PRD (it really is the only official source) as a replacement for those books (or just use a non-watermarked copy of the page in question, after all you have already proven ownership).

Would that be a lot of work for VOs and VLs... I really doubt it, sanctioning 1-30 books would not really take much longer than 4-5 minuntes, and if they have something designed like a chronicles sheet, they can just initial each book's title. And you only really would have to do it once, after that adding a book to the list and a new initial... is easy.
And of course players would be encouraged to be even nicer to their VOs and VLs... most will likely accept food as tribute ^^

This solution would not significantly increase the workload of Paizo staff (outside those VOs who agree to offer the service) aside from creating and updating the list of sourcebooks.

EDIT: Ninjaed by Paz

2/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:

The bigger your geek back, the less likely you are to be audited for anything.

Now if only I knew how to stop a donkey from leaving presents for the clean up crew...

I have no idea what this means.

2/5

Walter Sheppard wrote:

Another thing to consider when discussing this is that while various srd sites may have accurate information about feats and options, they also have the possibility of being innaccurate by the same virtue that also makes them accessible-they're fan made and fan run.

As a GM, I'd rather have obscure resources presented to me from Paizo product, because I can easily verify their authenticity. And if you've ever run several high tier tables at a convention, you're going to encounter strange new rules. Aside from that, I am always dubious whenever someone's only resources are from d20pfsrd. I've also noticed that newer players assume 3PP content is OK for PFS when they rely solely on that website.

Those would be my primary concerns as a GM. Now if the Paizo PRD included all their obscure source material... That would be another thing. Perhaps offer a "members only" PRD that subscribers get access to for free? Or charge an annual fee to access? No reason that couldn't be allowed as an additional resource IMO.

You make some good points here, and I do share some of your concerns. I like your "members only" subscription idea a lot, and have proposed something similar in the past.

2/5

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

Without really looking at the merits of your boons (those are very much a separate issue, this would only really help those who like physical books. For those who buy PDFs nothing changes.

Well, no, these boons are supposed to come with pdf purchases too.

As for the boons, what do you think of them? We can discuss that too, separately from their distribution method.

Also, I'd be happy with the VO book signing/certificate distributing idea you proposed too. I think there are a lot of potential solutions like this that aren't really being considered enough.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Erick Wilson wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

The bigger your geek back, the less likely you are to be audited for anything.

Now if only I knew how to stop a donkey from leaving presents for the clean up crew...

I have no idea what this means.

If you carry a lot of books with your to your PFS event, GMs are less likely to actually do an audit, however if the GM only ever sees you using your tablet with the PRD open and / or using a popular android app to look up details (very useful for GMs).. then your GM might fell more justified to do an audit.

Personally I usually already bring:
Dice (plenty of spar ones)
Pawns
Bases
Maps
Chronicle sheets
Condition Cards
Buff Deck
Clipboard with plenty of paper for notes
Several mechanical pencils, pens, dry erase and wet erase markers
Combat pad
My character folder (including chronicles, shopping lists, some printed pages from various sources like that one page from the Alchemy manual)
etc.

Of course if I don't GM it reduces my load somewhat, I usually end up replacing all that with plenty of snacks, beverages and sources of caffeine, I might actually bring my Nespresso machine to the next game day, and maybe my popcorn maker...

The short and sweet seems to be, that when the GM almost literally uses a pack mule to move his gaming supplies, players at least pay token lip service to the PFS rules and bring some of the more uncommon sources.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Erick Wilson wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

Without really looking at the merits of your boons (those are very much a separate issue, this would only really help those who like physical books. For those who buy PDFs nothing changes.

Well, no, these boons are supposed to come with pdf purchases too.

As for the boons, what do you think of them? We can discuss that too, separately from their distribution method.

Also, I'd be happy with the VO book signing/certificate distributing idea you proposed too. I think there are a lot of potential solutions like this that aren't really being considered enough.

Yes, but the people buying PDFs are already doing so, and bringing a display device to the tables / printing a number of pages, really isn't a big hassle, considering that many players carry 100 + chronicle sheets with them.

I think any solution for this would have to cater to people who want to support the FLGS (a really good idea, I supported mine until it had to close for a number of reasons), my approach would be to make it easier to make use of the physical books without having to bring them along.

A couple of weeks I shared some boon ideas with the other players, why don't you reposte yours there? That said the random element is really not very attractive, after having invested a... big sum into MTG buying boosters really isn't very attractive.
Ideas for new player boons
.

I think I will try to post a separate thread on that subject of VOs and books signings, since it is not directly connected to moving product.

Apparently Redward had the idea years ago

Shadow Lodge *

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

One of the things that I do is put each of my PFS characters in their own manila folder, and the first sheet in the manila folder is a list of the sources used by that character. That gives me a quick pick list of what I need to bring. Even at a convention I'm not going to be playing more than three characters before making a trip back to my room, so that helps me really cut down on what I need to carry -- it's made a huge difference in the six months since I went to this method.

4/5

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For me, the main issue is that if the players are not required to bring the resources, the GMs will have to. You can't assume you will always have access to the PRD/SRD/AoN. (We have some locations in our area where WiFi is not available and at certain conventions, even a cell phone signal is dicey at best.)

Someone at the table needs to have a copy of the resource to look up the rules. Should this be the player who built their character off of those rules and is benefitting from them? Or should it be the volunteer GM who has already shelled out money for the scenario and invested their time in prepping it?

(Now, I understand and support the effort to help out the local gaming stores--I just don't think this is the best way to do it.)

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

pH unbalanced wrote:
One of the things that I do is put each of my PFS characters in their own manila folder, and the first sheet in the manila folder is a list of the sources used by that character. That gives me a quick pick list of what I need to bring. Even at a convention I'm not going to be playing more than three characters before making a trip back to my room, so that helps me really cut down on what I need to carry -- it's made a huge difference in the six months since I went to this method.

Good idea, and I know players who do this, could be get dicey with spellcasters since they tend to be all over the place. I personally can't use this method, I really can't trust myself with picking up the fight folders.

Dorothy Lindman wrote:

For me, the main issue is that if the players are not required to bring the resources, the GMs will have to. You can't assume you will always have access to the PRD/SRD/AoN. (We have some locations in our area where WiFi is not available and at certain conventions, even a cell phone signal is dicey at best.)

Someone at the table needs to have a copy of the resource to look up the rules. Should this be the player who built their character off of those rules and is benefitting from them? Or should it be the volunteer GM who has already shelled out money for the scenario and invested their time in prepping it?

(Now, I understand and support the effort to help out the local gaming stores--I just don't think this is the best way to do it.)

No idea, if Paizo has an official stance on this one, but I simply downloaded the entire PRD website and thus made it available everywhere, I have it on my phone, tablet and notebook.

And the player still has to provide the source or they can't use it, photocopy a page or several pages from your books if you can't reproduce the item in question otherwise.
Even creating a makeshift "spellbook" filled with bits and peaces from copied pages might be an idea. (I pretty much to this with herolab when I prepare things, just create a level 20/20/20/20 character who can cast everything and then just add the relevant spells and print the spell descriptions.)

This is less "players don't have to provide the source" but rather "let's see if we can increase the options for those who do legally own the original sources, so that they might use something like the SRD as a legal source ".

2/5

pH unbalanced wrote:
One of the things that I do is put each of my PFS characters in their own manila folder, and the first sheet in the manila folder is a list of the sources used by that character. That gives me a quick pick list of what I need to bring. Even at a convention I'm not going to be playing more than three characters before making a trip back to my room, so that helps me really cut down on what I need to carry -- it's made a huge difference in the six months since I went to this method.

That is a good idea, but honestly you shouldn't be having to do things like this in order to play a game during your free time. The fact that you felt the need even to come up with a system like that to address the problem speaks to the point I'm making, I think.

2/5

Dorothy Lindman wrote:

For me, the main issue is that if the players are not required to bring the resources, the GMs will have to. You can't assume you will always have access to the PRD/SRD/AoN. (We have some locations in our area where WiFi is not available and at certain conventions, even a cell phone signal is dicey at best.)

Someone at the table needs to have a copy of the resource to look up the rules. Should this be the player who built their character off of those rules and is benefitting from them? Or should it be the volunteer GM who has already shelled out money for the scenario and invested their time in prepping it?

This is 2015. I think venues without wifi or a reliable cell signal represent a corner case, at best. And even if we're going to include those in the discussion, the rule could still be that you need to present the source material only in the event that you don't have access to the pfsrd.

I still think Walter's idea about a more comprehensive and vigilantly updated official Paizo SRD that PFS players could access via a subscription fee is probably the best one though.

2/5

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:


Even creating a makeshift "spellbook" filled with bits and peaces from copied pages might be an idea. (I pretty much to this with herolab when I...

Keep in mind that HeroLab is not a legal source for PFS. That's the real cherry on top! Someone like me, who is a big fan of both hardcopy and HeroLab, effectively has to buy everything three times in order to use it in PFS. That's just too much.


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Erick Wilson wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:


Even creating a makeshift "spellbook" filled with bits and peaces from copied pages might be an idea. (I pretty much to this with herolab when I...

Keep in mind that HeroLab is not a legal source for PFS. That's the real cherry on top! Someone like me, who is a big fan of both hardcopy and HeroLab, effectively has to buy everything three times in order to use it in PFS. That's just too much.

Yeah, I mean having to buy it for herolab and not counting as a source is outrageous! It's like having to pay my car note, insurance, AND gasoline just so I can "legally" drive my car to the grocery store! Then I have to make sure my car is clean enough to fit the groceries? AND I have to buy the groceries? It's too much!

Sczarni 4/5

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Erick Wilson wrote:
This is 2015. I think venues without wifi or a reliable cell signal represent a corner case, at best. And even if we're going to include those in the discussion, the rule could still be that you need to present the source material only in the event that you don't have access to the pfsrd.

Conventions: the 6 conventions we support, only 1 has free wifi, the others have no or spotty cell reception, and wifi costs $15 per day.

Game stores: We play PFS at 5 game stores in the state. 2 of them have free wifi. The other 4 games stores in the state who were not interested PFS only 1 had wifi. So about 30% of game stores I have visited in this state (CT) have it available to customers. Of course this is also one of the 3 states with the highest price per square foot in retail space cost, and the state in the process of raising the minimum wage to the highest in the country, so small businesses are feeling the financial stress. Many of the game stores are in basements of buildings, and have no cell reception. I'd say 50% you can't get wifi or 3G (or higher) cell service.

So not so much a corner case as you might think. If you are a first time player at one of these stores or conventions, and you think as you seem to that they'll have free wifi, so you don't bring resources with you.... that means at least one game day or day of the convention you will be stuck running games with pregenerated characters. It also punishes those without smart phones and/or tablets. Its better to treat all players the same at all locations, meaning everyone has to bring a source.

Erick Wilson wrote:
I still think Walter's idea about a more comprehensive and vigilantly updated official Paizo SRD that PFS players could access via a subscription fee is probably the best one though.

But they don't do subscriptions that don't include physical product, and what you are asking for is already handled by the subscription PDFs. The subscription you are talking about would lower the number of subscribers to the book lines, which would mean they would have to print less books, which raises the cost of printing each book, which increases the cost of the books to the consumer, which would lower the number of subscribers to the book lines, which would mean they would have to print less books, which raises the cost of printing each book, which increases the cost of the books to the consumer, which would lower the number of subscribers to the book lines, which would mean they would have to print less books, which raises the cost of printing each book, which increases the cost of the books to the consumer...... until Paizo is no more. The PRD is all of the RPG line books for free, because that's as much as they can do without having their business model thrown on its head. (Note: they have made a few exceptions such as the technology guide)

Also I'm not sure what you mean by "vigilantly updated" the PRD is updated the same day that errata comes out. When a new book comes out, it takes some time to get it added, but that also helps with books sales, if you want to start playing with the newest and greatest, you by the book or PDF on street date.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Erick Wilson wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:


Even creating a makeshift "spellbook" filled with bits and peaces from copied pages might be an idea. (I pretty much to this with herolab when I...

Keep in mind that HeroLab is not a legal source for PFS. That's the real cherry on top! Someone like me, who is a big fan of both hardcopy and HeroLab, effectively has to buy everything three times in order to use it in PFS. That's just too much.

Oh I have been using Herolab for years (I discovered it during the Mythic playtest) and I get enough use out of it (a lot of theorycrafting, that I justify the expense.

Stopping to buy most things as hardcover helped me ^^

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

BigDTBone wrote:
Erick Wilson wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:


Even creating a makeshift "spellbook" filled with bits and peaces from copied pages might be an idea. (I pretty much to this with herolab when I...

Keep in mind that HeroLab is not a legal source for PFS. That's the real cherry on top! Someone like me, who is a big fan of both hardcopy and HeroLab, effectively has to buy everything three times in order to use it in PFS. That's just too much.
Yeah, I mean having to buy it for herolab and not counting as a source is outrageous! It's like having to pay my car note, insurance, AND gasoline just so I can "legally" drive my car to the grocery store! Then I have to make sure my car is clean enough to fit the groceries? AND I have to buy the groceries? It's too much!

Again,remember, that HeroLab is not a Paizo product! Plus, you are not required to buy it!

Heck, you are not required to buy anything more than the CRB - in PDF format at the min, for $10! That's incredibly cheap for the amount of entertainment you will be getting out of it!


Silbeg wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Erick Wilson wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:


Even creating a makeshift "spellbook" filled with bits and peaces from copied pages might be an idea. (I pretty much to this with herolab when I...

Keep in mind that HeroLab is not a legal source for PFS. That's the real cherry on top! Someone like me, who is a big fan of both hardcopy and HeroLab, effectively has to buy everything three times in order to use it in PFS. That's just too much.
Yeah, I mean having to buy it for herolab and not counting as a source is outrageous! It's like having to pay my car note, insurance, AND gasoline just so I can "legally" drive my car to the grocery store! Then I have to make sure my car is clean enough to fit the groceries? AND I have to buy the groceries? It's too much!

Again,remember, that HeroLab is not a Paizo product! Plus, you are not required to buy it!

Heck, you are not required to buy anything more than the CRB - in PDF format at the min, for $10! That's incredibly cheap for the amount of entertainment you will be getting out of it!

I clearly need to roll better on my craft:sarcasm checks.

4/5

Erick Wilson wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

For me, the main issue is that if the players are not required to bring the resources, the GMs will have to. You can't assume you will always have access to the PRD/SRD/AoN. (We have some locations in our area where WiFi is not available and at certain conventions, even a cell phone signal is dicey at best.)

Someone at the table needs to have a copy of the resource to look up the rules. Should this be the player who built their character off of those rules and is benefitting from them? Or should it be the volunteer GM who has already shelled out money for the scenario and invested their time in prepping it?

This is 2015. I think venues without wifi or a reliable cell signal represent a corner case, at best. And even if we're going to include those in the discussion, the rule could still be that you need to present the source material only in the event that you don't have access to the pfsrd.

I just said we have several in our area. And two conventions are at a hotel with dicey cell coverage (especially when the gaming is in the basement), and depending on your carrier, coverage is spotty (mountains block radio signals--who knew?).

And this is in Seattle. Some of the rural areas surrounding Puget Sound are worse.

5/5 *****

If you are talking about spotty wifi just look at gencon. Unless you were in one of a handful of spots finding a reliable connection was god awful.

5/5

Dorothy Lindman wrote:
Erick Wilson wrote:
Dorothy Lindman wrote:

For me, the main issue is that if the players are not required to bring the resources, the GMs will have to. You can't assume you will always have access to the PRD/SRD/AoN. (We have some locations in our area where WiFi is not available and at certain conventions, even a cell phone signal is dicey at best.)

Someone at the table needs to have a copy of the resource to look up the rules. Should this be the player who built their character off of those rules and is benefitting from them? Or should it be the volunteer GM who has already shelled out money for the scenario and invested their time in prepping it?

This is 2015. I think venues without wifi or a reliable cell signal represent a corner case, at best. And even if we're going to include those in the discussion, the rule could still be that you need to present the source material only in the event that you don't have access to the pfsrd.

I just said we have several in our area. And two conventions are at a hotel with dicey cell coverage (especially when the gaming is in the basement), and depending on your carrier, coverage is spotty (mountains block radio signals--who knew?).

And this is in Seattle. Some of the rural areas surrounding Puget Sound are worse.

I don't know about you, but I have even had trouble getting a good, reliable signal in the middle of the Sagamore Ballroom at GenCon for my iPad.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

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Since it was mentioned a couple of times, let me elaborate a bit on my idea of a "member's only" or "subscriber's only" Paizo PRD.

Everything that is mechanically relevant to character creation that has been published in a Paizo player companion or campaign setting sourcebook would be included on this PRD. The PDF versions of those books run between 8-13 dollars each. Given that not all information in those sourcebooks are made PFS legal, I'd say charging a monthly fee of $10 to have access to this "member's only" expanded PRD would be a fair number to try and work with. Given that we aren't getting the full sourcebook material with our $10 PRD subscription, you will still have people purchasing the books.

This expanded PRD subscription would just be for convenience's sake, or for PFS players that are looking for a cheaper alternative to PDFs. All you would have to do would be to log into Paizo with your "member's only" account and you could have access to this expanded PRD.

As a campaign participant, if I could drop $10 a month and have access to a PFS endorsed website that could be used a legal source for character creation, I would be happy to pay that amount. Partially for ease of access but also because I like the Paizo PRD layout a lot more than existing Pathfinder sites. And given that this is my most enjoyable hobby, $10 a month isn't much to pay for such a useful tool.
----------------
What this could solve:

  • the need for physical copies of books, potentially, provided you are in an area with wifi.

What this still doesn't solve:

  • people with existing physical copies of books that still have to photocopy specific pages in order to play their PCs
  • people that don't have $10 a month to spend on a PRD, or people that don't want to spend $10 a month on a PRD.
  • pulling up additional resources in an area without wifi. Although perhaps at a later date a Paizo PRD app could solve this.

  • Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    So your basic proposal is to tell Paizo to cut one of their major revenue streams, and in it's place put in a far more complicated PITA to manage reward system, which puts no onus on players to purchase the materials if they don't care about the boons.

    Yeah.. I see this going very far.

    /sarcasm mode off.

    The present system is fair and akin to the very succesful FTP model I see on Star Trek or Neverwinter Online.

    You don't pay a dime and you can build a decent workable character on the core materials alone.

    You pay a la carte for the rules mechanics you want to use and/or the books you simply want to have.

    It's a fair, easy to adjudicate system, that gives players the fun they can afford, and supports the company that provides it.

    If Paizo is going to make a change, you need to show that it will give demonstrable improvement to both sides, the players AND the company.

    5/5 5/55/55/5

    Thinking about geting to a con this weekend and i have to say, my spine is liking the idea of cutting out a few pages of the inner sea world guide to save a few pounds.

    Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

    I.... Don't think a Paizo version of D&D Insider is gonna fly...

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    thaX wrote:
    I.... Don't think a Paizo version of D&D Insider is gonna fly...

    But it worked so well for WOTC! That's why 4th Edition is the dominant form of roleplaying games today!.

    Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

    I'm imagining it more like an extended version of the Paizo PRD. Take the existing PRD and add a "Campaign Setting" and "Player's Companion" side tab to the main screen. Make that side tab only accessible to people that have a paid subscription, verified by logging in with your Paizo account. Easy as one, two, three.

    The framework is already existing, all that would happen would be an expanding of the PRD to include more Paizo published material. The incentive for Paizo would be the monthly or annual access fee. The incentive for Pathfinder players and GMs would be a Paizo-maintained source they can access that includes all the relevant information needed for participating in PFS.

    Whereas D&D Insider included bonus content and web-only publications, as well as a character creation engine and visualizer, not to mention other random D&D stuff--our version would simply be a PRD source for existing Paizo product. The operational costs for the "member's only" PRD would be substantially lower than whatever Wizards put into D&D Insider. You also wouldn't need to install Silverlight in order to access this expanded PRD.

    Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

    LazarX wrote:
    thaX wrote:
    I.... Don't think a Paizo version of D&D Insider is gonna fly...
    But it worked so well for WOTC! That's why 4th Edition is the dominant form of roleplaying games today!.

    I thought it was the ease of play and the wonderful variation of classes.

    Seriously, though, I think buying the PDF's and having them on an easily rechargeable tablet is easy enough, or just carry a lot of books around.

    I am currently going through my characters and printing pages from PDF's that has the stuff being used. (mostly from Companion books)

    I keep each character in a folder, with Plastic sheets in the middle that has the Chronicles in order of play (Numbered and everything!!) and have Name Tents I print from Herolab, booklets of abilities and spells, and separate printings for animals (Companions and bought pets).

    thus far, my 25 characters all fit in my file box, with a box that has Dice and Minis inside and pens/pencils on the top containment thingy.

    Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

    BigNorseWolf wrote:
    Thinking about geting to a con this weekend and i have to say, my spine is liking the idea of cutting out a few pages of the inner sea world guide to save a few pounds.

    I ended up buying the PDF, after owning the physical book for years. However that won't happen with my Rise of the Runelords physical copy, that PDF is a bit more expensive. That said, the rules require a watermarked copy of the PDF, and it doesn't say, that it has to have your name on it (quite likely since Paizo wants to be nice to its customers and avoid placing strict rules on PDF use, and let's not even start about the concept of inheriting PDF).

    Opening a book and removing select pages, should not be that difficult with a really sharp knife (or if you can get a scalpel) it might not even be visible in the book one it is back on your shelf.

    Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

    Walter Sheppard wrote:

    I'm imagining it more like an extended version of the Paizo PRD. Take the existing PRD and add a "Campaign Setting" and "Player's Companion" side tab to the main screen. Make that side tab only accessible to people that have a paid subscription, verified by logging in with your Paizo account. Easy as one, two, three.

    The framework is already existing, all that would happen would be an expanding of the PRD to include more Paizo published material. The incentive for Paizo would be the monthly or annual access fee. The incentive for Pathfinder players and GMs would be a Paizo-maintained source they can access that includes all the relevant information needed for participating in PFS.

    Whereas D&D Insider included bonus content and web-only publications, as well as a character creation engine and visualizer, not to mention other random D&D stuff--our version would simply be a PRD source for existing Paizo product. The operational costs for the "member's only" PRD would be substantially lower than whatever Wizards put into D&D Insider. You also wouldn't need to install Silverlight in order to access this expanded PRD.

    While the way Wotc did things was ... not ideal, especially considering the fact that it required a credit card, and those are not always common everywhere (at least back then), you could combine access to such a service with PDF/physical purchases from Paizo ... so e.g. buying 20 $ worth of PDFs gives your one month free access to the service and considering the number of scenarios some of us buy...

    Of course this still would not help those of us who want to support their friendly neighborhood gaming store.

    2/5

    Walter, nevermind the b%$$#$$s. I like your idea and your extrapolations on your idea. The only detail I'd add would be the option to buy bigger chunks of subscription time at a reduced price.

    2/5

    Huh, I didn't know that word would get censored...

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