I have a bad GM


Advice


I usually gm our weekly pathfinder sessions, but a few days ago I let one of my friends take a turn for his first time. He prepared a lengthy campaign, that was probably a better story than I could have come up with. But he was terrible at it. Half the things we wanted to do he said that we couldn't. When we needed to bless water to make it holy, he insisted that we couldn't use our bless water spell, and just told us to roll a dice and said we did it. In staid of letting us find out were to go next, he just got mad at us that told us exactly what to do. In a nutshell, it was bad, but he still wants to GM and finish his lengthy campaign. He is a good friend of mine, and is not trying to be mean, but he just does not know how to be a good gm. I have no idea what to do, and some of the party members are getting board of role playing, do you have any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.

Sovereign Court

Talk to him as a group?

Give him time to work out the kinks?

In cases like Bless Water explain how the rules work on that and mention that if he is going to arbitrary change the rules he needs to give the players a heads up.


Calmly and politely tell him you're not having fun, and try to come up with a compromise with him between his GMing style and your playing style. Having fun is the most important thing. If he's receptive, show him some guides on how to be a better GM. There are lots on the internet.

If he's not receptive and continues making the game un-fun for you, just tactfully leave the game. You'll still have him as a friend afterwards.


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Be sure to express how much you enjoy his story! And then offer to help support him through the process of learning how to run the mechanics. The GM doesn't have to run everything. They can delegate some responsibilities to the table.

GMing takes a while to learn. Few people are good their first time out.

And maybe taking turns GMing would help as well. Maybe every few sessions, you switch off. I know that I need a break every now and then. And for me, my non-GM time allows me to try out a character concept!


If this is his first time to GM cut him some slack. Since you are the normal GM and his friend you may want to talk to him alone about the game. Give him honest feedback about the game, both good and bad. You probably want to start with what you did like, before diving into where he went wrong. He also sounds like he spent too much time planning out the campaign without having enough experience running things. I usually recommend the first time someone runs that they runs something short and easy. Think of it as training wheels. This is a common mistake for many starting GM’s.

If he is not willing to listen or does not change then your group has to decide if you want him to continue running. Be careful because it is likely he could get upset when people don’t want to play after he spent a lot of time developing a story.

Also many players do not have all the books so if he does not have any books lend him yours so he can at least read them.


I second Otherwhere. Express that you really like his story, but his GMing skills need work. Tell him it's okay, since almost nobody is a great GM from the start.
Lend him your copy of the Gamemaster Manual and/or point him to the GM-chapter of the Players' Handbook (also the online guides Castilonium mentioned).

If he hasn't a firm grasp on the rules yet, volunteer to be the (neutral) rules lawyer, with him having the final say. I'll do the same when my girlfriend starts DMing next month.

Tell him something like this:
GMing isn't like writing a book. You don't have a linear story that your characters experience. It's more like Skyrim: You create the quests and set the players free to complete them. Maybe they'll stay on the road, maybe they abandon a quest halfway through because something more interesting came along, probably they won't stay on the road but try to shave a few minutes off by trying to glitch over that mountain. Watching the players get creative is half the fun.


No one knows all the secrets of being a good GM -or- a good player for that matter, the first time they try. It takes time to learn.

Like others have suggested already, I would add my vote to trying to talk to him when you're not playing, to let him know that you found it uncomfortable when he told you that you couldn't do things. Tell him that he doesn't have to have all the answers and that it's okay to actually listen to the players ... in fact, that's one of the key secrets to running a good campaign.

I'm more concerned that you're saying some of your other group-mates are getting bored of roleplaying. If they are losing interest in the hobby because of one evening's bad experience with a complete greenhorn at GM'ing, then they probably weren't terribly interested to begin with.

I think one solution to this is to ask the whole group over to sit down around the table -without- roleplaying, but simply to talk over where your game-group is going, and if it has a future at all. Make sure that everyone is aware that the talk needs to be civil since you're all friends and should stay that way after the evening is over, but that if someone has a problem of any kind ... being bored, feeling left out, whatever it may be ... they can voice their concern and everyone can try to figure something out.

One possible solution that I know works for quite a few groups out there is, that sometimes you simply run sour in the system you're playing. If you've played the same game system for several years without trying something else, then perhaps there's a mutual feeling that it's time to try another game to find some of that lost RP spirit again.

Just suggestions, of course.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Not to pile on, but I agree with what everyone else has said.

DMing is hard. It is a learned skill. Very few people have a natural knack for it that doesn't require cultivation. A lot of really good DMs forget the fact that they used to suck at it too.

Talking is going to be key. If your friend is receptive to POLITE and KIND correction on what they are doing wrong, then there's hope. I personally disagree with The Alkenstarian on the forum–I think a lot of people will react poorly to being confronted by the whole group at once–but the general idea is still the same. I've found that Snejjj's suggest of a table "rules-lawyer" is a great one for new DMs, but only if the person filling that role really is impartial–i.e., they need to point out things to the DM that are going to badly hurt the party just as much as they point out things to the party's advantage.

At the end of the day, make sure that the conversation really is calm, polite, and kind. They're your friend, so you should know what will work, but if they feel attacked, put-upon, or harassed, it will make things worse, not better.


Good points here. I've been GMing off and on for 15 years or so. Played longer. I'm finding that the best way to learn to gm is to keep swapping places; I gm once or twice, then for the next campaign, my friend takes a shot. Between games, we collaborate, expand on/establish house rules, talk shop. We argue over certain uses of the rule, but in the end, when he's the GM, I accept whatever rules he says; he's the boss now. When it comes time to talk shop, if i disagree with something, I bring it up, and we hash it out - there's no reason it has to be adversarial - it's just an almost academic discussion. "Hey, by the way I'm wondering why you felt bless water didn't work? Oh, well, that's fine. But I'm just letting you know, for this next campaign I'm gonna allow it if it comes up, because X. So how do you feel about the reach weapon rules for Bob's halfling..."

Ultimately, while it might sound all touchy-feely, the reality is that everyone's a little self-conscious of their GM ability when they begin, and the hardest thing to do is to give everyone equal camera time while balancing everyone's fun-o-meter. If everyone's struggling, and he loses his cool, he's gonna have to get over it; it's all good and well to set up the huge domino maze, but if everything doesn't fall together perfectly for him, he can't throw a tantrum and kick the dominos over himself. There are more tactful ways to inform him of this...

Try talking it out between games; offer it up as advice; "Listen, in that last scenario, I think we were just jammed up. Everyone was frustrated. It was a good puzzle, we just couldn't come up with a way to get from point A to Point B. You want my advice?" (if he says no here, just give up the argument, and offer to GM the next game, if he says yes, then....) "Just try not to set your adventures up as the domino maze. If people don't follow a linear path to solving the problems, you need to have back-up plans to motivate/lead them to the next encounter. But if you take over and give them the solution, they'll feel stupid, and you are ultimately just story-telling. They're just listening to your story, and not participating. They'll get bored and maybe they'll just quit. I was thinking, what if during that scenario in the town, what if a package was delivered to the inn, and..." etc etc, try to work with him on encounter building; hell if you have the time, try to play a 1 character game, just you and him, to highlight certain methods/styles of running a campaign. Motivating large parties with differing and at times conflicting interests is no easy thing; It helps if the GM sets guidelines on the characters during the creation process, so that they don't come up later (paladin wants to go to the cave, but rogue wants to rob houses. ugh)

Constructive criticism after a game will always trump complaints during the game, but that's not just up to him, everyone involved needs to accept that he is, for the time being, the arbiter. What you want is for him to flex his skills and grow; but if he decides that it's just too hard - which so many fledgling GMs do - then you're out one potentially good future GM, and there are always so few of those.
The less stressed he is by the pressure of balancing plates, the better he'll get at it, until one day, he'll be doing it without thinking about it. Just remember to keep offering up compliments beside your critiques, and he'll get there eventually.


Spudmaster wrote:
I usually gm our weekly pathfinder sessions, but a few days ago I let one of my friends take a turn for his first time. He prepared a lengthy campaign, that was probably a better story than I could have come up with. But he was terrible at it. Half the things we wanted to do he said that we couldn't. When we needed to bless water to make it holy, he insisted that we couldn't use our bless water spell, and just told us to roll a dice and said we did it. In staid of letting us find out were to go next, he just got mad at us that told us exactly what to do. In a nutshell, it was bad, but he still wants to GM and finish his lengthy campaign. He is a good friend of mine, and is not trying to be mean, but he just does not know how to be a good gm. I have no idea what to do, and some of the party members are getting board of role playing, do you have any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.

I would tell him what he is doing wrong, and why it is wrong. I would also tell him that his game is not being enjoyed. I think your friend is thinking of his story as a novel without actually realizing it. That may be why he is forcing you to take certain actions in game.


I always find that in really tight groups where you have good friends, the role of the DM becomes blurred and you all end up playing the same game as co-players.

Offer to help him with the complicated stuff and let him know that is for the better of the game and not because he sucks, but if the players end up having more fun, usually the GM does too.


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This is where Paizo's Game Master Guide will come in really handy. It's rules light and advice heavy. It is really useful for first time GMs and I strog it recommend your friend read it.

From your description, it sounds like he has the potential to be a good GM - he comes up with good stories and enjoys running a game. It does feel like he's faling for some classic newby GM mistakes. Like treating the game more like a novel than a game where all the players involve explore the land and story.

So have him pick up a copy of the GMG and start reading it!

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