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Here is the announcement, including screenshots, on ENWorld!
An upcoming Dungeons & Dragons video game based on the new D&D 5th Edition rules will allow groups of up to four players to cooperate in online games run by a real human Dungeon Master. Called Storm Coast Legends, it's coming this year, and is being developed by n-Space and Digital Extremes. It sounds very much like a game partly inspired by the Neverwinter Nights video games.
Developer Dan Tudge mentions the setting. "You can certainly expect to visit iconic locations along the Sword Coast and you may even run into a few familiar faces along the way." He also goes on to talk about how the game actually works: "Dungeon Master Mode is going to allow players to quickly jump in and play as a real-time DM in a way that has never really been fully realized in a video game. DMs are able to adjust encounters, place, promote, manage and even control monsters, set traps, reward and punish party members – all in real time"
Not only that, but a Campaign Mode allows for much larger storylines, and a Single Player mode allows one player to lead a groups of adventurers recruited within the game.
It almost sounds like the ultimate in virtual tabletops, although it's not clear what worldbuilding tools or custom content can be included.
Tudge talks about the inspiration behind the game. "When I directed Dragon Age: Origins the mission was to create the ‘spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate’ and I think players really felt like Origins achieved that. With Sword Coast Legends we are also continuing the legacy of the Baldur’s Gate series so you will see strong influences from not only those games, but from Dragon Age: Origins as well. You will definitely feel the influence in the tactical party-based combat, pause and play and character progression, but it’s the rich story and memorable characters where the influence is strongest."
My personal opinion? The screenshots and the hotkeys suggest more of an action-focused game to me. For me, the magic word I want to see is "turn based", but I understand them trying to reach a broader market. Also, my quick internet research shows Dan Tudge to be the game director and executive producer behind Dragon Age: Origins, which I enjoyed a lot.
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"Turn-based" creates some real issues with multiplayer video games. Not insurmountable issues, but issues that can be easily avoided by making it real-time with pausing. The idea of "turns" in board games exists to make adjudication of the game simpler. This isn't necessary in a video game - the details are handled behind the scenes, by the game itself. There are some advantages in using it in single-player tactical games (it slows the pace of the game down and gives the player time to think), but those advantages become headaches in a multiplayer environment, where some players are made to wait while others make decisions.
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The ability to make your own adventures would be the shizzle. I've wanted something like that for Pathfinder for a while, too.
Turn-based combats would basically preclude animations in which the characters are acting simultaneously. It means much slower gameplay.
I'm not sure how real-time with pause would work in multiplayer. Maybe if everyone declares their action at the beginning of a round, and then each round plays out after exiting pause?
The press release basically doesn't say much at all -- basically it drops some names of well-respected CRPGs from the past. I still would like more information.
Wrote and played lots NWN MP. Don't recall the pausing being an issue
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Friend shot me a screenshot of this and it looked more like top down baldur's gate with a party than neverwinter nights to my own disappointment. Not that I minded baldur's gate, but I'd much prefer something to take NWN's place.
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I'm not sure how real-time with pause would work in multiplayer. Maybe if everyone declares their action at the beginning of a round, and then each round plays out after exiting pause?
It would work the same way it works in any of the Infinity Engine games' multiplayer modes. Each player is assigned a set of permissions (can they initiate conversations with NPCs? can they manipulate other people's inventory? can they pause the game?) and whenever someone with permission to pause the game hits the pause button, the game pauses for everyone, and the same player has to unpause the game to continue. Typically you will want to give the party leader the ability to pause the game, and oftentimes spellcasters should have the ability to pause as well. Now, Sword Coast Legends might simply give all players the ability to pause, but my point is that this is a problem that the industry solved nearly two decades ago.
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It's disappointing how ubiquitous multiplayer computer games have become. Aren't there any antisocial teenagers left in the world? :(
It's disappointing how ubiquitous multiplayer computer games have become. Aren't there any antisocial teenagers left in the world? :(
I agree. I hope the single player campaign is robust, otherwise I'll be giving it a pass. I do recognize I'm in the monority here, though.
It's disappointing how ubiquitous multiplayer computer games have become. Aren't there any antisocial teenagers left in the world? :("Have become?"
I remember Doom and Quake death matches in high school. This would be... OMFG, twenty years ago. Now I feel old...
Heh. High school was thirty years ago for me.
It's disappointing how ubiquitous multiplayer computer games have become. Aren't there any antisocial teenagers left in the world? :(This does at least promise a Campaign and Single Player Mode.
Multi-player, but not MMO.
Oh I didn't realise that. Cheers me up a bit. Thanks. :)
Pfft, only 20 years ago? You young ones:D Joust came out 33 years ago. Multiplayer videogames have been around almost since the beginning of the medium (well, technically entertainment-oriented computer programs go back several decades further, but almost as long as widely available action-heavy videogames).It's disappointing how ubiquitous multiplayer computer games have become. Aren't there any antisocial teenagers left in the world? :("Have become?"
I remember Doom and Quake death matches in high school. This would be... OMFG, twenty years ago. Now I feel old...
They weren't ubiquitous though. I still pine for wizardry, zork and ultima. :(
Oh I didn't realise that. Cheers me up a bit. Thanks. :)It's disappointing how ubiquitous multiplayer computer games have become. Aren't there any antisocial teenagers left in the world? :(This does at least promise a Campaign and Single Player Mode.
Multi-player, but not MMO.
Yeah, it does not sound like an MMO at all. More like Diablo 2, which had a limit of 8 people in a game at once, only this one is just four people, or five if you are in DM-mode and also have four players.
I wonder if the company will even have their own servers or if the players will host the games directly?
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It's disappointing how ubiquitous multiplayer computer games have become. Aren't there any antisocial teenagers left in the world? :(
Between Shadowrun Returns, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Pillars of Eternity, and the Mass Raise Dead some secret cabal of clerics performed on the entire 2.5D single player RPG genre two years ago, you're actually in incredibly good shape. There hasn't been this much industry attention paid to creating rich non-first-person, single-player-only RPG experiences in a decade.
Awesome, thanks again. :)
One of the problems with being an antisocial 45 year old is that things like that pass me by.
Any suggestions as to "2.5 D single player RPGs"?
Divinity Original Sin is a pretty solid one and one of the more recent ones that I've really enjoyed.
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It's disappointing how ubiquitous multiplayer computer games have become. Aren't there any antisocial teenagers left in the world? :(
Almost every single computer/console video game I own is single player. Even the ones that do have a multiplayer component are much more strongly focused on the single-player experience.
Of coorse, the type of games I prefer plays into that as well. I go more for action/adventure, platformer (the more Metroidvania, the better), puzzle (akin to Portal), and survival horror games more than anything else.
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Joust came out 33 years ago. Multiplayer videogames have been around almost since the beginning of the medium (well, technically entertainment-oriented computer programs go back several decades further, but almost as long as widely available action-heavy videogames).
Pfft! Joust?!?!?
noob! Possibly THE first video game was PONG. Multi-player has existed since BEFORE single-player.
Steve, I really enjoyed Wasteland 2, as well as the Shadowrun Returns games that Scott mentioned upthread. I kickstarted both, so I'm not sure what they run, but I bought the second Shadowrun (Dragonfall) and I think it was only like $25 on Steam.
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Joust came out 33 years ago. Multiplayer videogames have been around almost since the beginning of the medium (well, technically entertainment-oriented computer programs go back several decades further, but almost as long as widely available action-heavy videogames).Pfft! Joust?!?!?
noob! Possibly THE first video game was PONG. Multi-player has existed since BEFORE single-player.
Funny thing... the first video game (a chess game done by Turring) predates pong by a good 25 years.
Video games are nearing their 70th anniversary.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Funny thing... the first video game (a chess game done by Turring) predates pong by a good 25 years.
It wasn't much of a game - it couldn't play a full game of chess - and didn't involve any video at all.
Video games are nearing their 70th anniversary.
I'm of the school of thought that we can't really start calling them "video games" until we start seeing self-updating graphical displays. The first example of note is probably Spacewar! but I've heard that there may have been a handful of game-like programs using vector displays that people were tinkering with even prior to 1962. I think we're much closer to being able to say that we'll be coming up on video gaming's 55th anniversary in a couple of years.
"Turn-based" creates some real issues with multiplayer video games. Not insurmountable issues, but issues that can be easily avoided by making it real-time with pausing. The idea of "turns" in board games exists to make adjudication of the game simpler. This isn't necessary in a video game - the details are handled behind the scenes, by the game itself. There are some advantages in using it in single-player tactical games (it slows the pace of the game down and gives the player time to think), but those advantages become headaches in a multiplayer environment, where some players are made to wait while others make decisions.
Actually no. Turn based works perfectly for online multiplayer games.
Each player acts on their turn. Very easy to program. Very easy to design.
During non-combat situations, movement could still be realtime, though.
The REAL problem is when the game is realtime with pausing during combat.
Actually no. Turn based works perfectly for online multiplayer games.
No, it really doesn't - at least, not for a party-based adventuring game like this. It creates creates spaces of non-action for most of the players, constantly. And not the good kind, either, where you're in suspense about what move your opponent will make. Instead, it's the kind where you just wish the party sorcerer would pick a buff to cast already, or the rogue would decide exactly what route to take to backstab the target. It takes one of the worst aspects of actual tabletop roleplaying games - waiting for the rest of your party to take a turn - and needlessly preserves and transfers it into the digital space.
Each player acts on their turn. Very easy to program. Very easy to design.
The issue has nothing to do with complexity of development, and everything to do with playability.
During non-combat situations, movement could still be realtime, though.
So you've hit problem number 1 (of many): you now force a demarcation between combat and non-combat actions.
The REAL problem is when the game is realtime with pausing during combat.
Your turn to explain why this is problematic.
A multiplayer turn-based system works great if you have voice chat available, as well as the ability to look through spells and whatnot while playing.
Pausing in realtime is problematic because it gives another player control over your gameplay flow. The kind of control it gives is also erratic. That is, given a realtime scenario where other people can pause it, it creates a sense of lack of control.
Note that when you are done with a turn in a turn-based system you "abandon" your turn. In a user experience kind of approach you can consider it as if you are handing over the ability to act to the next player.
This is not the case in a realtime scenario with pausing. In such a scenario, as the other players control your flow, you have no sense of control. Whenever any other player pauses, it will stop the gameplay for EVERYONE. And then when they unpause you need some system to indicate that the system is actually unpausing, otherwise you will be kicked back into realtime again... And this is all without you having any control over it.
In a turn based system EVERYTHING is under your control. You do not have to fear losing control because some other player pauses the game.
Doesn't the pause part introduce exactly the same problems as the turn based? Waiting for the other players to unpause and do their thing? Perhaps less often, but also less predictably.
In practice, no. One of the key factors here is that during pause-time all players are allowed to manage their characters. Every so often you have to wait a few seconds for the spellcasters to finish assigning their actions, but it's often a welcome break from the chaos of real-time combat, even when playing a melee character.
This is not the case in a realtime scenario with pausing. In such a scenario, as the other players control your flow, you have no sense of control. Whenever any other player pauses, it will stop the gameplay for EVERYONE. And then when they unpause you need some system to indicate that the system is actually unpausing,
You mean kind of like the same voice chat that turn-based requires?
In a turn based system EVERYTHING is under your control. You do not have to fear losing control because some other player pauses the game.
You don't lose "control" because a player pauses. You still retain the ability to assign commands to your character during pause-time. It just pauses the action, that's all.
Out of curiosity, how many of the people criticizing real-time-with-pause gameplay have actually put significant time into Infinity Engine multiplayer games? Or Neverwinter Nights on a small server with pausing allowed?
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For those who do not also read the forums over at swordcoast.com here is an update from one of the developers of the game. This is a lot of info, though a fair amount is not really detailed, but here it is:
My name is Dan Tudge and I’m the director of Sword Coast Legends and president of n-Space. We’re all very happy to be finally be sharing SCL with the world and are very thankful that you have chosen to be a part of its creation. We've already seen a lot of questions on the boards here and while there is much we can’t talk about I’m going to do my best to answer what I can:
Will there be a Mac version of this game? Boom! Right out of the gate something I cannot talk about! We’re not talking about additional SKUs right now.
Will there be micro-transactions, or content locked behind a price tag? I can understand the concern around micro-transactions and assure you that SCL is a fully featured RPG that is not “locked behind micro-transactions.” Much like the table-top, we do plan on continuing to create adventures for both DMs and players long after launch. We have a lot of stories to tell, characters to meet and places to visit, but we cannot create them all before launch. We are going to keep creating content as long as you keep playing!
How long is the single player campaign? While we’re not talking about the campaign in detail right now but I can tell you this: It’s not going to be short! A great RPG isn’t something you finish over a weekend and SCL certainly won’t be finished in a weekend either.
What exactly is the Design Council? Access to special forums that will help us, the developers, make decisions that mold and shape SCL.
What exactly is early access? (Roughly how long is it?) We actually can’t say just how long early access will be just yet, however we can say that you’ll get ample time to adventure prior to launch.
Will there be an alpha or beta test? We’re not talking about alpha or beta testing right now.
Can you explain more about how DM mode works and the DM toolset? The DM can fully customize the player experience, significantly altering an adventure by changing encounters, placing traps, spawning monsters, creating quest NPCs, generating secret areas, locking doors - all in real-time. There are also offline campaign tools that enable DMs to build campaigns for their players - more about that later.
Are any localizations planned? We understand that there are a lot of RPGs players that love to play in a language other than English and we are evaluating additional localized versions right now – more details to come.
Are there any plans for the game on SteamOS/Linux? We’re not talking about additional skus right now.
Will there be Romances in the game? A hallmark of a great RPGs is the meaningful companions you meet along the way and how they react the choices you make in your story. These companions become your “friends”, ones you remember long after playing the game - characters like Minsc and Jaheira from the Baldur’s Gate series or Alistair and Morrigan from Dragon Age: Origins. In SCL we’re creating companions that stand tall within that legacy. Will you be able to romance them? You’ll have to wait and see.
Will Sword Coast Legends be separate canon from the novels? We’re working in tight coordination with Wizards of the Coast and have created an original story for SCL, one that is tightly woven into Forgotten Realms lore.
How do you coordinate with Wizards on lore/content? For two years we've worked very closely with the D&D team at Wizards of the Coast to ensure players get a true “D&D experience.” I would also mention that we’re all fans of tabletop D&D (and the Forgotten Realms) here. Many of the Sword Coast Legends team plays D&D several times a week and have done so for years. In fact, several of our story ideas have come from our personal campaigns!
Can you tell us more details about the Belaphoss Statue? Right now I can tell you that it looks awesome and will be shipped to your house closer to launch.
Will the camera be able to rotate, move and zoom in and out? Absolutely, and in single player you’ll be able to pause with the spacebar and issue tactics old school!
How will movement be handled in the game? You will move around the game with your mouse using point and click.
Will the single player campaign be playable coop? More details on that later!
Any idea exactly what the tome of knowledge is? Reading the Tome of Knowledge will give players additional points to spend on their character’s ability scores and class features (spells and abilities).
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Will the camera be able to rotate, move and zoom in and out? Absolutely, and in single player you’ll be able to pause with the spacebar and issue tactics old school!
This line makes it sound like single player mode will feature real-time-with-pause, while multiplayer will simply be real-time (though I think it's probably likely that the "DM" will retain the ability to pause the action in multiplayer, too).
This is not the case in a realtime scenario with pausing. In such a scenario, as the other players control your flow, you have no sense of control. Whenever any other player pauses, it will stop the gameplay for EVERYONE. And then when they unpause you need some system to indicate that the system is actually unpausing,You mean kind of like the same voice chat that turn-based requires?
Possibly.
But it's still "ok now I'm unpausing". Which is just weird.
In a turn based system EVERYTHING is under your control. You do not have to fear losing control because some other player pauses the game.You don't lose "control" because a player pauses. You still retain the ability to assign commands to your character during pause-time. It just pauses the action, that's all.
But pausing the action still makes you lose control. Another player having the ability to pause the game will by definition cause you to lose control.
The game will get stuck in one state thanks to the input of one singular player.
Yes you can still issue commands but that doesn't mean you don't lose control. You lose control of the flow of time.
It's very possible that the impact of this is massively lessened by voice chat, though.
Out of curiosity, how many of the people criticizing real-time-with-pause gameplay have actually put significant time into Infinity Engine multiplayer games? Or Neverwinter Nights on a small server with pausing allowed?
It's possible it works better in practice than in theory. In theory it is absolutely idiotic.
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An interview at MMPRPG.com about the game. Again it's Dan Tudge for N Soft being interviewed. He draws close parallels to NWN... a lot of the same info as above, but for what it's worth:
Sounds good all in all.
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I'm glad to hear the single player experience will be robust. I'm very likely to pick this up.
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But pausing the action still makes you lose control. Another player having the ability to pause the game will by definition cause you to lose control.
Of what, exactly? What did you have control of before the pause that you no longer have control of after the pause?
The game will get stuck in one state thanks to the input of one singular player.
Sort of a silly way of looking at things, isn't it? It's not "stuck" in one state. It's paused. It's no more "stuck" than if someone else was taking their turn in a turn-based game (and substantially less so, since typically people only pause if they have something they actually need to do during pause-time).
Yes you can still issue commands but that doesn't mean you don't lose control. You lose control of the flow of time.
You didn't have control of the flow of time before (except for the ability to pause). Outside of pause-time, time moves at a constant speed in the game. You could anticipate its movement, but that doesn't give you control over it any more than my knowing it's going to rain tomorrow gives me control over the weather. And there are only two things that can happen to affect that anticipation: 1) the game is paused without warning, which doesn't harm you in any way; and 2) the game is unpaused without warning, which is confusing and sometimes bad, but parties very quickly learn to warn the group when the game is going to unpause. And it leads to some pretty cool looking coordinated moments when you unpause and every party members carries out their assigned actions in concert.
It's very possible that the impact of this is massively lessened by voice chat, though.
It is. And voice chat is pretty ubiquitous nowadays.
It's possible it works better in practice than in theory. In theory it is absolutely idiotic.
I think you're being overly harsh, especially if you haven't ever tried it. It really does work pretty well, and actually keeps the game moving at a good clip. Most of the time, the game being paused is a relief, giving you a moment to breathe during hectic real-time action.
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The game is realtime combat with the ability to pause. I read an article a few days ago about it and it spelled that part out. I personally prefer the option to switch from realtime with pause and turn-based (especially the turn-based when playing a single-player game that has a party). I have played a couple of games a long time back that had that ability but don't remember their names, only that I enjoyed the combat aspect of them immensely.
It seems like a reskin of the upcoming Fable Legends.
Anyway I hope that the single player will be good, it has been A LONG TIME since the last NWN and I have an itch to scratch for a DnD video game.
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again one of these realtime games? No thank you, I am not interested. When do they bring out a turnbased rpg like pool of radiance?
Like PoR? Never, I'd wager. The game is nearly 30 years old, and there are precious few people willing to go back to that kind of pointless frustration. It was wonderful for its time, but that's about it.
THAT was a good game, not this realtime crap.
The Baldur's Gate series and Planescape: Torment were crap? Come on, man.
Temple of Elemental Evil was turn-based. If the game hadn't been such a buggy mess (which fans are still fixing, over a decade later) it would have been fantastic.
ToEE is great, but doesn't have multiplayer - and that's a good thing, given its grounding in turn-based gameplay.
I don't see the pausing being an issue, even in multiplayer. Controlling a single character in a game like this is not very demanding. The pause mostly comes into play when you're trying to direct 4-6 characters at the same time.
Hmmm not sure how this slid under my radar. Gonna have to give it a look.
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I... I must have this gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmeeeeee (for a very, very loose definition of "must", but still). :D