I'm really interested on creating a Blaster(not full blaster, but something that works great).
My idea, and i'm not an expert of, is to start with sorcerer...am i right?
Elemental Bloodline seems the best choice...but also Draconic is a good one; what about combining the two with the Crossblooded Archetype?
I hope someone could help me, so i could start to get my stats with PB (20).
What is it for, home game, PFS? You might want to look at the play test document out for the new classes they are working on. The kinetiscist(?) sounds to be a very good "blaster" from what several people have mentioned in other threads.
Any damage increasing Metamagic + Dazing + Heighten.
Preferred Spell (Fireball) so you can prepare any utility spells you might need, but still whip out crazy Fire(or Cold or Acid or Electricity)balls when you have to.
I copy and paste this a lot...please favorite it and share with anyone who asks a similar question. It's a core basis blaster build, you can tweak as you like once you know what you like.
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Paizo BLASTER CASTER build:
Goal: Pile on the hurty-hurt with direct damage spells. You don't need battlefield control if the enemy is dead.
Level 1: Take Sorceror: Crossblooded Orc/Draconic, Human, take Varisian Tattoo, take Trait: magical Lineage (pick spell), Reactionary (+2 Init)
Then take Wizard/Evoker -Admixture Specialist for your remaining levels. Why Admixture? Because you can change the element of any of your blasting spells on the fly to get around elemental resistances/immunities.
If you want to superspecialize outside of Evoker, take Sin Magic, lose two schools (Conjuration/Abjuration), gain yet another spell slot per level of raw power.
End result: Crossblooded sorc orc/dragon bloodline 1, Wiz/19, Admixture Evocation specialist.
Note: Can use Sin Magic for more slots. Sorcerer level allows use of spell devices from denied schools (Conj/Abjuration).
Magical Lineage Trait allows Intensify for free on chosen spell.
Spell Perfection allows free Quicken at higher levels.
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Play Hints:
Take Burning Hands or Magic Missile as a Specialized Spell early. Burning Hands will deal more damage, Magic Missile has better long-term utility and keeps you out of danger. Every other level, you can change your specialized spell.
Add Greater Spell Specialization at level 7 or 9. Why? You can then memorize utility spells, and trash them for your blaster spell.
Change your specialized spell up to Scorching Ray or Fireball when you can, depending on campaign, typically at 5 or 7.
At level 12 or higher, change it to Fire Snake.
Use Admixture specializing to change the element on the fly.
Use Fire Snake until higher levels. Why? High damage base and level 5 spell still leaves room for metamagic, esp Quicken.
Mechanics behind Choices: Orc blooded, Draconic: +1 to all damage spells, +1 to element of choice, retasked by Admixture = +2 dmg/die on blasting spells.
FEATS
Intensify Spell: Increases caster level damage cap +5 to apply to a specific spell. Burning hands goes up to 10d4+20. Magic Missile goes to 7d4+7. Fireball to 15d6, Fire Snake to 20d6+40.
Empower Spell: Increase dmg by 50%.
Quicken Spell: Hit enemy with two spells/rd.
Spell Specialization: +2 to caster level with a specific spell. Helps bring the damage earlier and faster.
Varisian Tattoo: +1 to Caster level with a specific school (Evo). This buys off your sorc level.
Greater Spell Specialization: Sacrifice spells to power your chosen blaster spell. Means you can memorize utility spells freely.
Spell Perfection: Doubles fixed feat bonuses, apply one metamagic for free. An Empowered/Intensified spell with Magical Lineage is still its original spell slot. SPell Penetration doubles to +4. Varisian Tattoo to +2. Spell Specialization to +4. Effectively, you've got +10 on Spell Resistance rolls, and are casting at 5 levels higher then your own.
Top End Damage: 30d6 +60 from Fire Snake, empowered, Intensified, average 165 dmg, save 1/2, level 5 slot.
Quicken for another hit, 5th level slot, 20d6 + 40dmg, avg 165.
= 330 blasting dmg in one round, save for 1/2. If you've a Rod of Maximize, you can lift this to 215 base damage.
Base level 5 spell slot is 20d6+40 dmg, 165 dmg.
BY LEVEL
At level 1, your Burning Hands should be 2d4+4 (avg 9)
At level 2, its unchanged.
At level 3, Spell Specialization kicks in. 5d4+10 (22.5). This tops it unless you Intensify it.
At 4th, 6d4+12 (27), Intensified BH.
At 5th, Intensified BH, 7d4+14 (31.5).
At 6th, you can shift Spec to Scorching Ray. 2x 4d6+8 (44). Your Fireball is 5d6+10 as well, or 7d6+14 if specced.
At 7th, 6d6+12 fireball, or 8d6+18 if spec. An Empowered, Intensified Burning Hands, if still the spec spell, is 13.5d4+27 (about 60).
8th - Empowered Scorching Ray, 2 x 6d6+12. E/I BH is 15d6+30 (74, max)
9th - Intensified, Specialized Fireball is 11d6+22 (51).
10th - Firesnake. E/Spec Fireball is 15d6+30 (74). Emp Scorching Rays are 3 x 6d6+12, or 18d6+36 (99 dmg). You can now Quicken a Burning Hands or Magic Missile as kicker damage in a round, although you've few slots.
12th - E/I/Spec Fireball is 21d6+42 (115) damage. You can now Quicken a 12d6+24 Scorching Ray.
14th level - A Specialized Firesnake now exceeds/equals an intensified Fireball. Fireball caps at 22.5d6+ 45 (123~) damage. An Empowered Firesnake is 24d6+48 (132) damage. You can now Quicken a 10d6+20 Fireball. Intensified, Empowered Scorching Ray tops out at 24d6+48 (132 dmg)
15th level - Spell Perfection. You can now add a Meta for Free. This will be Quicken or Empower. Intensified might be free if Magical Lineage applies to it. Caster level buffs for spec spell exceed +5, so top out at 20d6 dmg at 15th level. You will miss Spell Resistance rolls against CR appropriate enemies on a 1.
Assuming Firesnake, you can now cast a Quickened Intensified Firesnake for 20d6+40 (110) damage out of a 5th level slot, and an Empowered Firesnake out of the same slot for 30d6+60 (165) damage. Using a 7th level slot, you can Empower both.
16th+ - Damage remains the same, higher level spell slots are open for use of other Metas or control spells.
Conceivably you could use Disintegrate to get a higher damage total, but the delay isn't worth it, and you'd lose the Varisian tattoo bonus.
If your DM allows you Twin Spell from 3.5, you can very, very easily clock in at 495 raw dmg/round. IF he allows Arcane Thesis, god help your enemies.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
If you want an effective blaster, with the ability to also contribute in other roles, then an Evocation/Admixture wizard works pretty well. Intense Spells adds a little extra to damage and Versatile Evocation lets you change the energy type on the fly. As a wizard, you have the built-in versatility of changing spells prepared day-to-day, plus Scribe Scroll as a free feat (even if your GM doesn't allow much in the way of down-time, scrolls can still be made fairly readily) as a back-up or to cover less frequent circumstances.
You may want to look up the Guide to the Blockbuster Wizard for a more detailed discussion on how to create a blaster wizard.
Sorcerer is an okay Blaster, but dipping Sorcerer for the damage increase and then playing straight Wizard is better. Evocation school power adds 1/2 Wizard level to damage, Admixture makes your damage more versatile, and Wizards get more skills. Eventually, you prepare utility spells a Sorcerer won't have and then convert them to blasting spells when you need to.
This means you get all the blasting power of a Sorcerer without losing Wizard preparedness.
okk, so following what you write you're meaning that Wizards simply made better blasters than sorcerers? how much better? (i'm not accusing anyone or so, i'm just trying to understand!)
If ALL you want to do is blast...then a single bloodline sorcerer can blast blast blast. Likely, you're going to get stone bored with blasting.
If you want to blast effectively, the key thing is that you must get higher damage. Spell penetration is also key, DC's not so much. But without high damage, blasting sucks.
Sorceror grants all its damage blasting benefits at first level. You don't need to take any more levels in Sorc.
Admixture wizard gets around sorc bloodline limits by allowing you to change elemental affinity on the fly, getting around things immune to your acid fireballs, or whatever.
With greater spell specialization, you can effectively sack spells that do other things in order to blast, giving you more versatility. SOmetimes you need battlefield control, sometimes you need a buff...but when you want it, you can blast. And you can blast HARD.
It's entirely likely you'll grow out of blasting and have fun with other spells, simply knowing that you can Bring It whenever it's needed.
Thanks for advices again... i'm just asking because i dont understand it entirely (not joking...).
You talk like a wizard have always the right prepared spell for the day, but it isn't like that (i think).
example to explain what i mean: if i prepare Fly but i need 5 times fly, i will need to wait there 24h as a Wizard, i get 'em istantly (assuming is a spell i want to take) with the Sorcerer...now maybe i'm blind but i don't really understand how could i pass between blasting and utility with the wizard... i will have to "everyday-think-of-what-my-GM-let-me-face-today" probably doing wrong choices (and sometimes good ones i hope) and being almost unuseful.
You need water breathing. Does your sorc have it? No. It's not one of his spells known. You are SoL.
My wizard can sit down for ten minutes, get the spell, pass the duration around to friends, and we're good to go.
The sorcerer is ideal for spamming useful spells. If you pick the right set of spells, you should always have something to do. However, situations come up, you don't have the ideal spell, so you make do with second best.
The blaster wizard is really good at blasting. If his current spell load out isn't cutting it, he dumps Charm Monster for Intensified Fireball (cold) and lets fly 12d6+24 of exploding death. He's a blaster. He can dump utility spells all day to blast if that's what he wants to do.
The sorcerer who sticks with Crossblooded has even fewer spells known, which magnifies his weakness. Yes, he can spam spells just as much, but now he can't switch out elements if he runs up against something immune or resistant to his speciality.
He's now a blaster, and a poor one, because he can't overcome defenses, especially later game.
In short, if you want to play a sorc to spam useful spells, don't play a blaster sorc. You can...but you're going to have problems being an effective blaster, and you'll probably have to remain mono-bloodline.
The build above keeps a wizard's flexibility, can spam his favored spell for excellent damage, and hits all the desired points for the blaster - high caster level, spam the blasting spell, punch the spell resistance, and change the element as needed.
That's why it's a 'standard' build, and you work off it to get something you want.
For spamming useful spells, the best bloodline is probably the Arcane. More spells known, a dash of metamagic, and the bloodline spells are pretty much ALL useful.
In my campaign, the Arcane bloodline is the 'human' bloodline...it's what happens when you mix multiple bloodlines together, getting a 'mutt' bloodline as the individual influences bleed out and leave only the magic bias behind.
A little important note , admixture changes the spells dmg descriptor, so you would not get the extra sorc dmg for a cold fireball, but if you took elemental spell the descriptor stays the same so you would get the added dmg , i believe.
actually , now that SLAs qualifies you for prestige classes a sorc/cleric or sorc shaman mystic theuge might be real nasty .
at 13 th level you could pump out 3 nasty fireballs or schorching rays in one round
it seems it change also the dmg type i think: Here
btw: wondering which bloodline should i take instead of Orc, maybe Elemental? Keeping the arcana or going for Primal one?
Which element should i prefer?
ah ok just seen your message right now XD!
About elements i'm really in trouble... i know a lot of monsters easily resist fire (or are immune to), but about other elements?
See if Words of Power is a viable option for this campaign. It's in UM, so it's part of the books ruled OK. While a straight blaster sorc is terrible, a WoP blaster sorc is actually quite good because you don't need many Words devoted to blasting. If you're not able to select crossblood/wildblood, then running straight Draconic - Black is your best option. Otherwise, Primal Earth / Draconic - Black.
Intensified Selected Lengthy Corrosive Bolt is your bread and butter. 3rd level slot, up to 10d4 base damage per round at CL 10 with no save and no SR for 4 rounds. Crossblooded adds 20/rd, standard is 10/rd. Either way, you're looking at 80-120 damage minimum on that target. If you pick up both Varisian Tattoo and Spell Specialization (conjuration), this baby is going off at 7th level.
The default 'all-around' damage type is acid...you don't run into many things immune or even that resistant to it.
That being said, running into things totally immune to fire is actually not all that common unless you are playing a fire-intensive game.
If you can't get orc, Draconic/elemental is the common filler. Elemental spell in this case becomes viable to keep all your elemental damage mods.
You don't need a high Charisma. 12 gets you +1 bonus spell castable, and your Spells Known are going to be stuff you can use at all levels. I'd go for True Strike and Endure Elements, neither of which are level based. Shoot crossbow bolts at level 1, or rays of frost from cantrips, or whatnot, switch to wizard at level 2 and you're on your way.
See if Words of Power is a viable option for this campaign. It's in UM, so it's part of the books ruled OK. While a straight blaster sorc is terrible, a WoP blaster sorc is actually quite good because you don't need many Words devoted to blasting. If you're not able to select crossblood/wildblood, then running straight Draconic - Black is your best option. Otherwise, Primal Earth / Draconic - Black.
Intensified Selected Lengthy Corrosive Bolt is your bread and butter. 3rd level slot, up to 10d4 base damage per round at CL 10 with no save and no SR for 4 rounds. Crossblooded adds 20/rd, standard is 10/rd. Either way, you're looking at 80-120 damage minimum on that target. If you pick up both Varisian Tattoo and Spell Specialization (conjuration), this baby is going off at 7th level.
where is Corrosive Bolt from? nvm i see it is a word of power
what about elemental, should i prefer Primal or straight one?
About words of power, i've always been attracted 'bout, but never studied 'em :S i don't know how those work.
depends on a couple things.
1) can you even take primal and cross blooded , some poeple say no cause it is a wildblooded line.
2) are you going 1 sorc and 19 wizard , if so i would go primal cause you can already change the dmg type.
3)if you are going sorc all the way and taking cold as your dmg type elemental might be cool cause you can rime spell everything , less dmg more control
what about elemental, should i prefer Primal or straight one?
About words of power, i've always been attracted 'bout, but never studied 'em :S i don't know how those work.
WoP has the best blasting in the game with some bizarre utility mixed in. Example utility: Lock Ward allows you to effectively do Brew Potion without a feat, without significant cost, and with effect words up to 8th level. Just buy a bunch of cheap lockets that you can open with a button press. Use 4th level slots to hand out Enhance Form, 5th level for Perfect Form, or 8th level for Perfect Form + Boost Monstrous Form for the melee in your life. This also covers your Explosive Runes needs, but with the aforementioned Intensified Selected Lengthy Corrosive Bolt coming out and hitting just the target. Just cast it on a sealed envelope. You can opt to have Selected Lock Ward Simple Command leaflets, as well, with a mere 3rd level slot that can ensure panic in a crowd.
If you're ok with casting spells with the Evil descriptor, a 9th level slot gives you the single highest damage spell in the game: Selected Horror Slay, which deals a flat 350 damage at 20th level or 330 at 18th, when you can first cast it. While it targets Fort normally, you can certainly use Mind Warp to make it a Will save instead.
You save on words known by utilizing the meta word Boost frequently. Fly turns into Mass Fly without having to learn an additional word - you just cast Boost Soar.
Short version: check with your GM to see if it's a legal option, then take a little time to learn and consider it. I consider WoP to be the best blasting out there, so I highly recommend taking a shot at playing it.
Prepared spells are trickier, this is true. However, blasters have it noticeably easier in that regard. Since you'll probably be preparing a lot of fireballs anyway, you'll find a lot of consistency in your list.
Generally speaking, Sorcerers can do more damage, Wizards are more flexible (both in spells known and in freely swapping between elements), the Sorcerer 1/Wizard X build gets power and flexibility but eats some harsh costs (Spell Resistance is death to you, and you want every D6 of damage you can get. Losing a caster level hurts both of those. These are surmountable problems but require more from your build. Compared to straight-Wizard you're also a level slower in getting spells and are hurt in your Will saves).
On prepared spells in particular, Aelrynith is proposing using Greater Spell Specialization (a feat from Ultimate Magic) to be able to ditch, say, Fly for Fireball. Preferred Spell from the Advanced Player's Guide does the same thing and is marginally better (you don't eat a lengthened casting time for metamagic'ing your spell), but it has a worse prerequisite.
With Wayang Spellhunter/Magical Lineage off the table, blasting is going to be harder for you. Aelrynith suggests Fire Snake; do not use this spell. Without Magical Lineage, even with Spell Perfection you can't do more than Quicken it. Even with the standard suite of metamagic cost reducers Fire Snake is iffy. To writ, assuming one of them on each spell:
3rd-level or 4th-level slot: Intensified Fireball (15D6). No Fire Snake.
5th-level slot: Intensified Empowered Fireball (22D6) vs. Intensified Fire Snake (20D6)
6th-level: Intensified Maximized Fireball (flat 90 damage) vs. Empowered Fire Snake (22D6; average 77)
7th-level: Intensified Quickened Fireball (15D6 swift action) vs. Intensified Empowered Fire Snake (30D6; average 105)
8th-level: Intensified Empowered Maximized Fireball (90+7D6; average 114.5) vs. Intensified Maximized Fire Snake (120) or Quickened Fire Snake (15D6 swift action)
9th-level: Intensified Empowered Quickened Fireball (22D6 swift action) or Intensified Quickened Fire Snake (20D6 swift action)
With no reducers it's actually worse; basically just bump everything up a level. As-is the only time it's better to spend on Fire Snake is with an 8th level or higher spell slot. That's not something you can consistently dedicate to blasting. Spell Perfection can bring this down, yes, but you're still tied to the same 9th level maximum. And since Spell Perfection favors the larger metamagic booster and you'll be fitting the bigger ones on Fireball sooner... advantage, Fireball.
Fire Snake does have advantages in flexibility and DC, but frankly they're fairly minor and not worth the penalties. A Selective Rod should cover you for the former and blasters are pumping DCs anyway.
Fire Snake isn't a bad niche spell, but it's not worth focusing on.
Middle of the road. Their big problem is speed. You're looking at getting new spell levels with a Sorcerer; if you want to dip Sorcerer for the bonus damage you're now back with Crossblooded in terms of new spells. You'd get Fireball at level 7 (I'd go Arcanist 6 before Sorcerer 1 for just that reason).
You definitely want School Savant (Admixture). The bright side is that this grants some decent flexibility, especially considered School Savant's extra spell prepared each day. Just slot various metamagic'd Fireballs into those and you're set.
Some of the exploits could help too. Potent Magic is very nice. Bloodline Development is good if you're already dipping Sorcerer. But with how many early exploit slots School Savant takes up, you're really stretched on those so they're mid-to-late game options.
So... trade-offs. You're really slow at picking up spells, but you're probably more flexible in your daily spells than the Wizard, and you have options but trouble fitting them in.
I would argue that arcanists the worst blasters of the three. Losing an additional spell level for crossblooded begins to really hurt your progression: one level behind wizard (ie normal sorc and arcanist) are what the game's CR-appropriate challenges expect as a minimum, so you'll always feel like you are lagging behind on useful spells.
More importantly, you gain very little from going arcanist in this situation. An arcanist benefits from the ability to spam his go-to spells and use his few extra slots to prepare a bunch of utility. However, a blaster wizard can already do that with fireball, with better access to metamagic to boot.
If you are going to pick up crossblooded sorc, you may as well just go crossblooded sorc. Swapping to arcanist gives you very little.Remember that crossblooded sorcs are still likely to hit early spell level targets because of bonus spells, so the arcanist isn't even on par until later.
Without Magical Lineage Firesnake is simply pushed back to a later level.
At 10th caster level, an Empowered Fireball is 15d6 and a Firesnake is 10d6. Stick with Fireball.
An Intensified Empowered Fireball tops out maximum damage at CL level 15 with 15d6+50%, but burns a 6th level slot doing so. At 15th level, Spell Perfection now comes online, caster levels from Spell Spec and Varisian Tattoo kick in for +6 total to caster level.
Suddenly your Caster level is even higher for blasting, and your Firesnake is going off at caster level 20+, so your level 5 slotted Firesnake is doing more damage then your level 5 Empowered Fireball, and nearly as much as your level 6 Empowered, Intensified Fireball. Your level 6 Intensified Firesnake is doing 20d6, 2 dice less then the fireball.
And you can spend a level 8 slot to now sling a 30d6+60 damage firesnake for an average of 170 damage. To equal that damage, you'd have to Maximize a fireball.
With a Quicken, the Firesnake is still the better spell.
Varisian Tattoo, Spell Spec and Spell Penetration if necessary will do the work of punching SPell Resistance for you. Particularly at high levels...the combined feats will be giving you +10 to Spell penetration rolls, which will basically be success on anything except a natural 1.
Firesnake is meant to be taken when the build is mature, and Fireball/Lightning Bolt top out. Stick with explosions until then. The time merely comes online faster with Magical Lineage.
Suddenly your Caster level is even higher for blasting, and your Firesnake is going off at caster level 20+, so your level 5 slotted Firesnake is doing more damage then your level 5 Empowered Fireball, and nearly as much as your level 6 Empowered, Intensified Fireball. Your level 6 Intensified Firesnake is doing 20d6, 2 dice less then the fireball.
A level 5 Firesnake should be doing identical damage to a level 5 Empowered Fireball (which should literally never be cast at this point, because Intensified). 15D6 is Firesnake's baseline cap; 10D6*1.5=15D6 for Empowered Fireball. Realistically, it's a level 5 Firesnake for 15D6 vs. a level 4 Intensified Fireball for 15D6. Clear winner is Fireball.
5th is an odd level of comparison because you should never actually be casting a Fireball with a +2 metamagic enhancer; it just doesn't make sense with any of the good ones. 6th clearly benefits Fireball; as you note it's 22D6 vs. 20D6.
For Fireball, level 8 is again an odd level without cost reducers; you're either going to be at 7 (Intensified/Maximized) or 9 (Intensified/Empowered/Maximized).
Picking only the two weird levels for comparison to justify Fire Snake seems... frankly rather dishonest as a tactic of discourse. Levels 3-4 favor Fireball, level 6 favors Fireball, level 7 favors Fireball, level 9 is a 5.5-point advantage to Fire Snake (this isn't including Sorcerer, more on that in a moment).
Realistically, once you add in Dazing things slide massively toward Fireball because you have augment a Dazing Fireball to a respectable level of damage but can't do the same with a Dazing Firesnake (you top out at Dazing+Intensified). However, that's not as straightforward to pattern math on so we'll set it aside.
Assuming Crossblooded for +2 damage/die (but ignoring Admixture for being a wash) and no metamagic reducers, caster level 20, this is what you look at, aiming solely at maximum damage:
3: 10D6+20 Fireball, no Fire Snake. Advantage Fireball
4: 15D6+30 Intensified Fireball, no Fire Snake. Advantage Fireball.
5: 15D6+30 Fire Snake; no Fireball because Intensified is equivalent. Advantage Fireball for accomplishing the same thing in a lower-level slot.
6: 22D6+44 Intensified Empowered Fireball vs. 20D6+40 Intensified Fire Snake. Advantage Fireball
7: Flat 120 Intensified Maximized Fireball vs. 22D6+44 (average 121) Empowered Fire Snake. This really only shows that Maximize becomes a trap option with Crossblooded factored in. Since Fire Snake is matching the level 6 Fireball option, overall it's advantage Fireball.
8: 30D6+60 Intensified Empowered Fire Snake. No point casting a pure-damage Fireball in this slot. Advantage Fire Snake.
9: 7D6+134 (average 158.5) Intensified Empowered Maximized Fireball vs. trap-option Intensified Maximized Fire Snake (160 damage; 5 less than the 8th-level option)
So at the highest levels, Fire Snake wins out-- but only at 8+. And there's more to consider. Let's factor in Spell Perfection.
3: 15D6+30 Empowered Fireball, no Fire Snake. Advantage Fireball
4: 22D6+44 Intensified Empowered Fireball, no Fire Snake. Advantage Fireball
5: No value casting Fireball of this level, 22D6+44 Empowered Fire Snake. Advantage Fireball for using a lower-level slot
6: 7D6+134 (158.5) Intensified Empowered Maximized Fireball, 30D6+60 (165) Intensified Empowered Fire Snake. Advantage Fire Snake.
7+: No casting either spell at this level.
So Spell Perfection makes it a more realistic option to use Fire Snake. But we're not done yet. Let's add Quickened Spells, but keep Spell Perfection. That means we get the following:
3: 10D6+20 Quickened Fireball, no Fire Snake. Advantage Fireball
4: 15D6+30 Intensified Quickened Fireball, no Fire Snake. Advantage Fireball.
5: 15D6+30 Quickened Fire Snake; no Fireball because Intensified Quickened is equivalent. Advantage Fireball for accomplishing the same thing in a lower-level slot.
So, clearly Quickened favors Fireball.
Now, take a look at the net gains of Fire Snake. We're talking 6.5 damage at the highest end-- with Perfection in play, with sixth-level spell slots. In exchange for that 6.5 damage per shot, Fire Snake sacrifices a lot. While the secondary offensive for Fire Snake slots in at a 5th-level spell, it's a 4th-level spell for Fireball. That's a pretty noticeable difference. Every time the Fireball mage novas, he's burning a 6th and 4th level slot (for Intensified Empowered Maximized + Quickened Intensfied), where the Fire Snake mage novas at a 6th and 5th instead.
Now, as noted there are items that are harder to quantify. Fire Snake has a higher DC (clear advantage Fire Snake), a different area pattern (debatable advantage, though personally I'd lean Fireball because I don't want to be within 60' of the other guy if I can be 1200' away instead). Dazing favors Fireball for having far more room to play; you can't cast Dazing Fire Snake in anything less than an 8th level slot normally, but it fits into a 6th level slot for Fireball. That means you can get off something like twice the number of Dazing spells off with Fireball than with Fire Snake, if you really build that way.
So to me, really the question comes down to "is 6.5 damage really worth everything that's lost?" And I... really can't see that being the case. There are times when it will be. When you can cast Dazing Fire Snake and they fail the DC in a situation where they would have made it for Intensified Dazing Fireball. When you get surprised by enemies right on top of you and things are too mixed up with allies and enemies to Fireball without catching allies.
But there will also be times when it won't be, and I suspect those will be far more common. When you need to get the most out of every spell slot you have, and freeing up 5th-level slots is valuable. When you engage enemies at long range because they're dangerous up close, and more than fast enough to turn 60' into melee range in a single round (and possibly Pounce too).
To me at least, the realistic total of the difference between the two can be made up for if one takes Heighten Spell (which leads into the ridiculously good Preferred Spell) and carries around a Rod of Selective Spell. Those two things shut down the corner-case preferences for Fire Snake pretty hard, and open up a lot more advantages for Fireball.
Fair's fair, all of this discounts rods. I can run some numbers with them if we really like, but only a Rod of Maximize is going to drastically change things and then only 3/day. And that's not even a very good Rod. I can also break out Magical Lineage/Wayang Spellhunter or both simultaneously, if we're really interested.
For the OP, I just want to point out there are several advantages to going with the Sorcerer:
1. Requires less system mastery for near equal effectiveness (as you say, a good %).
2. Actually slightly better saves (not by much mind you, and only if you don't Crossblood)
3. +1 CL. Period. If you're blasting, this is actually nice. For most levels, that's a extra D6+1 damage
4. Versatility can be bought with money. Grab some scrolls and a Mnemonic Vestment. Also grab Metamagic (elemental) rods. Bam, no longer SOL.
5. As pointed out above, you only need one spell to blast. Fireball. Everything else is gravy. Grab Firesnake later if you're feeling randy or if you don't want to force your party to roll saves against your spells.
6. Tattoed Dragon Sorcerers are awesome. Gain Varisian Tattoo instead of Eschew Materials (not the worst trade), Trade claws for a familiar (also good trade for full casters). Primal sorcerers are pretty fun to for alternate types of damage if that's your bag.
7. Metamagic rods change damage, but not type of spell. (Loophole in the rules that lets you keep your +1 to damage for all damage types)
8. Noble Scion (war) allows you to get your Cha for Init. If you're blasting, it helps to go before your party so they don't get in your way. Yon wizard is going to be slower than you, especially if you have a Wicked Green Scorpion Tat.
9. Gnome is a viable choice for race for higher Con score. Half Elf is also decent for a variety of reasons, as well as the requisite human. This is nice if you're sick of playing elves (those pompous jerks).
10. You'll have more spells per day to cast (well, not first level spells), especially of your highest.
11. You can take the time you'd be studying books and hook up with your favorite NPC (or PC, if you swing that way).
12. Your GM won't roll his eyes at you when you tell him what you're doing with your character build (YMMV).
Sure, the Crossblooded Sorc/Admixture Wizard is decent at doing damage, but the Tattooed Draconic Sorc isn't the slouch that people say he is.
I can't believe we're 35 comments into this thread and nobody has mentioned Brewer's classic Guide to the Blockbuster Wizard yet. (Discussion thread over here.) It only focuses on one particular sort of blaster, and it doesn't include splatbook stuff from the last couple of years. It's excellent anyway.
Just going to throw out that there are non arcane casters that can do this blasting and do it well. oracles can be good and a well made cleric is so good I could argue it was better than any other blaster because of its diversity and better defenses.
If you're looking for "a fun %, if not 100%", then may I modestly recommend my own "Blaster Wizard With Alchemical Reagents" build? It's pretty much exactly that, and it's a straight wizard with no dipping.
Alchemical Reagent Blaster:
This grew out of reading Brewer's Guide to the Blockbuster Wizard right after reviewing the "alchemical power components". Most of the alchemical reagents give pretty modest benefits -- +1 to damage here, a caster level here, an extra but of duration over there. But I wondered: if you piled them on each other, could you get some interesting results?
It turns out, yes.
* * * * *
Human wizard, 15 point build: Str 8 Con 12 Dex 14 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 8. Evocation specialist with the Admixture subschool -- this lets you swap energy types (fire, acid, cold, electricity) on your spells 8x/day. Bonded object instead of a familiar. Traits: Magical Lineage (fireball) and, oh I don't know, Reactive. (You'll carry that Magical Lineage trait for six long levels before it's useful. But then it will be very useful indeed.) Feats are Spell Focus (Evocation) and Spell Specialization (Burning Hands). Skills, meh, the usual. If you do the cyphermage dip (see below) don't forget to throw some ranks at Linguistics.
First Level -- Starting spells: Burning Hands, Grease, Mage Armor, Summon Monster I. If your party lacks a meat shield for you to cower behind, you cast Mage Armor before entering the dungeon. Otherwise, you take nothing but Burning Hands, baby. Your feat and your specialization = basic Burning Hands for 3d4+1 damage, DC 16 Reflex save for half. That'll sweep the street clean of most first level opponents.
But wait -- there's more. You invest in some alchemical reagents. 40 gp gives you a flask of liquid ice, which you can use as a spell focus for Ray of Frost, making it do +1 damage. The flask is not consumed, so you can use it endlessly. Together with your evoker bonus, that means this endlessly spammable cantrip now inflicts d3+2 damage on a +2 ranged touch attack. That's almost always going to be better than messing around with a silly crossbow. For your first couple of levels this will be your default attack.
For your main blast, use your admixture power to turn Burning Hands into Cold Hands, toss in some urea and you're now doing 4d4+1. Why? Because for just 4 gp/dose, urea gives you +1 caster level on cold spells. That's crazy good, and you're going to leverage hell out of it. At first level, it means 11 average damage, which will seriously dent most nonboss opponents and will simply wipe out a mass of low level opponents even if they save (which at a DC 16 Reflex, they probably won't). In the unlikely event you meet something that's immune to cold, you keep some other reagents in your back pocket -- brimstone (+1 damage on acid spells at 2 gp/spell) and saltpeter (+1 damage on fire spells at 3 gp/spell). For when you just want to add a little something extra to show you care, there's black powder (+1 damage on all evocation spells). At 10 gp/spell it's a bit pricey for you, but sometimes you just want to make the moment special. So if that cold-resistant creature shows up, you just shrug and throw Acid Hands for 3d4+2 or 3d4+3.
Oh, and you also carry around some spirits of wine in a flask. Those give +1 to spell level on summoning spells for duration purposes only -- so for 3 gp you can make your Summon Monster I bring something for 2 rounds instead of 1.
Finally, when you have a little money pick up a couple of flasks of acid. For 10 gp per casting you can use these with your Grease spell to inflict 1 hp/round of acid damage on anyone that stays within the spell's area of effect. And for just 5 gp/casting, alchemical grease adds 1 to this spell's save DC.
Second Level -- Pick up Magic Missile and a utility spell. You won't use MM very much for a while, but one day you'll be spraying a bunch of Dazing Magic Missiles around at a bunch of mooks. Meanwhile, your Cold Hands now do 5d4+2, or 5d4+3 if you blow the 10 gp for black powder. This is a quiet level for you. Don't worry about it; things are going to get interesting fast.
Third Level -- Take Intensified Spell (allows five more levels of damage on spells, +1 spell slot) as your third level feat. Learn Flaming Sphere and Summon Monster II. In your second level slots you can now carry Flaming Sphere for 3d6+2/round, or Intensified Cold Hands for 6d4+1 -- remember, the feat lets you go past the normal 5 die limit on this spell. In your first level slots, Burning Hands with saltpeter / Acid Hands with brimstone = 5d4+2.
But wait! If you throw in a flask of alchemist's fire as a material component (20 gp), your burning hands will set one enemy who failed his save on fire. This is only an additional 1d6/round of damage, but it's totally worth it just for the visual.
Fourth Level -- Get a utility spell, like Web or Glitterdust or Invisibility, and then also take Fox's Cunning. Because, oh hey: that's a transmutation spell, so for 3 gp/casting you can use magnesium to make it last as if you were a level higher, five minutes instead of four. No big thing, but that should get you through a couple of encounters. Put your +1 boost on Int, raising it to 19. Pick up a first level Pearl of Power. Intensified Cold Hands now do 7d4+2, or Intensified Burning/Acid Hands do 6d4+3, or Flaming Sphere does 3d6+2/round.
Fifth Level -- Fireball, baby. (Take Haste for your other spell, so that the other players stop going on about how you never buff them.) Take Greater Spell Focus and Varisian Tattoo, aka Mage's Tattoo on the PFSRD -- +1 caster level on all evocation spells. From here on out you can probably afford to add black powder as a default. Buy it in bulk, you'll be using it a lot. So now Fireball (or Acidball, or Lightningball) does 6d6+4, while its urea-powered Freezeball variant does 7d6+3. In your second level slots, Intensified Cold Hands do 9d4+3.
Sixth Level -- Take Communal Resist Energy. With a pinch of cold iron, you cast this at +1 caster level, meaning that at 6th level you can now grant 20 points of resistance. But wait! If you throw in a flask of liquid ice (40 gp) or of alchemist's fire (20 gp), you can add 20% to the resistance granted by this spell to fire or cold respectively: 24 instead of 20.
You're now high enough level to afford an Int-boosting item; get one, raising your Int to 21. Switch Spell Specialization from Burning Hands to Fireball. Your Fireballs now do 9d6+5 damage, average 36.5, or 10d6+4 for Freezeballs. In a pinch -- say, if the party is being swarmed by very large numbers of weak foes -- you can cast Communal Resist Energy on the party, then Fireball them and yourself. The party will still take damage if they fail their saves, but you'll clean out the enemies toute suite.
Seventh Level -- Take Empower Spell. Take Dimension Door -- you need the tactical flexibility and it's grapple insurance. There are several okay fourth level evocation spells... I'm fond of detonate (at this level it's 8d8+5 damage to everything around you, or 9d8+4 if cold) but yeah, you're probably better off with Ice Storm or something. Pick up a rod of Selective Metamagic. (This will finally stop the other PCs' pathetic whining about you catching them with your fireballs.)
After six long levels, Magical Lineage finally kicks in: you get Empowered Fireballs as 4th level spells. That's 10d6 (x 1.5) +5, or average 57.5 damage. With your Fox's Cunning on, that's a DC 22 Reflex save. Your 2nd level spell slots have Cold Hands for 8d4+4.
Eighth Level -- You're going to start meeting things with SR, so pick up a rod of Piercing Spell while you're shopping for a better (+4) Int booster. Put your level-up point on Int, so you're now rocking a 24. You can now throw Intensified Fireball as a 3rd level spell for 11d6+6, or Intensified Freezeball for 12d6+5.
You now get the goofy Elemental Manipulation aura, which is mostly worthless but could be situationally a lot of fun if everything clicks. Here's what you do: before entering the Glacial Rift of the Ice-Themed Monsters, you set your aura to convert cold attacks to fire. Then you cast Communal Resist Energy (fire) on the party, throwing in a 40 gp flask of liquid ice to give everyone fire resistance 24. Then you get right in among the monsters and cast Freezeball centered on yourself. Okay, the party will still take average 23 points of fire damage each... but the cold-based monsters will take average 70.5 each. (And, come on, the party rogue will probably evade.)
Finally, pick up Black Tentacles. Not only is this a fine utility spell for those confusing moments when you can't immediately blast something, but for 50 gp/casting you can use a tanglefoot bag as a component, allowing you to reroll your grapple check against one opponent.
Ninth Level -- Icy Prison and Fire Snake are both fine 5th level evocation spells. Icy Prison is suck-or-suck; if the enemy fails a DC 24 Reflex save, it's helpless, and even if it succeeds, it's entangled and taking damage -- 15 on the first round, and then 11 per round thereafter, until it makes a DC 26 Str check to escape. Meanwhile, your Intensified Enhanced Freezeball is up to (13d6 x 1.5) +5 or about 73 points.
For your feat, Quicken Spell is tempting, but it's just a bit too soon -- you'd be using a precious fifth level slot to throw a simple 5d4+5 Quickened Burning Hands. It can wait until 11th level. An interesting option is to take Cyphermagic so you can dip a level or two of Cyphermage. Casting from scrolls now gives you +1 caster level -- more dice of damage. For one level of Cyphermage, you take Focused Scroll; basically this means that once/day you can ignore SR. If you were to dip a second level, you'd take Enhance Scroll, because you can save just a sick amount of money with this one.
But for now let's keep it simple and go with Spell Penetration. SR is starting to be a common thing at this level. You're a blaster; if something at resists your magic, you've just wasted your round and accomplished nothing. So you need this feat. It stacks with your Piercing Spell metamagic rod, so you're always at either +2 or +7... and those will get doubled when you get Spell Perfection, heh heh.
Tenth level -- Speaking of Spell Penetration, it's probably time to invest in a few doses of Dweomer's Essence. Though not formally an alchemical reagent, this acts just the same way: it's a one-time consumable that you mix into your spell to add +5 to your spell penetration check. At 500 gp /shot, it's not cheap, but sometimes you want to be very sure that you're taking that bad guy down.
For your 10th level bonus feat, there are a couple of attractive options. One is the Alchemical Affinity arcane discovery. This neglected gem gives you +1 ECL and +1 on DCs for any spell you cast that is also on the alchemist's spell list. Tragically, this does not include Fireball, but it does include a bunch of fun spells from Detonate to Magic Jar. And it's pretty solidly thematic. That said, if you're playing strictly by the numbers then you're probably best off taking Dazing Spell. It's everyone's favorite metamagic feat for a reason. Your Dazing Fireballs will only do 10d6+6 damage, but anything that fails that Reflex save is SOL. And it's not like you can't do raw damage -- your Intensified Enhanced Freezeball is averaging 80 points of damage, and you can throw 13d6+6 Intensified Fireballs around like Mardi Gras beads.
btw reading the BB Wiz i've ended with this: Wizard probably more efficient with blasting, but a Power Words Sorcerer is surely more flavourful.. so i'm thinking of building one, even without really knowing at 100% how
1 channel ray
1H spell focus
3) spell spec
5) empower spell (fireball)
Theologian 5 intensify spell
7) dazing spell
9) improved initiative
11) quicken spell
13) whatever you think you need
15) spell mastery (think I got name correct) intensified, quickened, dazing spells as a level four!!! Yes sir!!!!
Why channel ray? Sometimes blasting in the traditional sense is undesirable or ineffective because of circumstance . Maybe you would blast ur team, maybe their reflex is insanely good, high immunities to both energies, etc. now for the bargain price of a feat you have the means to shoot a ray that no one but undead is immune to, has decent DC, targets will, and can also daze just about anything. Will be your bread and butter before fireball and remains useful all the way to level 20. If you don't believe that go test it against a pit fiend, because you have a better than 60% chance of dazing him without any other equipment or boosts. Bottom line, not too many things (if any) are able to shrug off both the channel and fireballs with two different energies with any consistency; even if they did just summon something that can get through.
Notes:At level 6 go cross blooded sorcerer for elemental and draconic. I usually go electrical for my other energy but acid is probably better for min maxing. Your will and con saves and AC will be hugely superior to any arcane caster even without divine protection feat (another option sorc doesn't have). IMHO the ONLY reasons to play arcane blasters are for role-play and because you love something else on the sorc spell list that you couldnt live without.
Maximized is a trap option for metamagic...you basically should only use it on a rod. For casting, Empower is far more efficient in scaling your damage.
Maximized becomes useful if you can move spell damage to d8's.
A Maximized Empowered Intensified Fireball with +2/die crossblooded is 90 +7d6 +44 damage. However, that's when you get Spell Perfection, which is at level 15...and your Caster Level is 20.
That's the key thing you missed. At level 15, you have Caster level 20, and Your Firesnake jumps damage by 5 dice, due to doubled Varisian Tattoo and Spell SPec. Even before then, you have to compare the +3 CL benefit. Fireball stops gaining in damage at Caster level base 12. Firesnake continues getting bigger and bigger, and when Spell Perfection hits, goes all the way to level 21 instantly.
So, you'll be comparing it against a 30d6 +60 Empowered Intensified Firesnake out of a 6th level slot, which is 170 dmg. If you want to, you can Maximize it with a Rod for 215 damage. (120+10d6+60)
Firesnake tops out higher, which is why it is the end game spell for a blaster.
And as a Blaster build, it doesn't mention Dazing Spell for a reason. :o.
Keep in mind I didn't invent the build...I just keep it around for people to look at and work with.
I mean, seriously, if you want a low cost high damage single target build, scorching ray can outperform both spells, and in an even lower spell slot...and force 4 saves vs Dazing spell.
CL20 was factored into my math. Even with Spell Perfection in play, the 6th-level option is a tiny difference in damage; 6.5 points (Intensified Empowered Fire Snake is 165 damage, incidentally. 30D6 = 3.5*30=105, add the flat 60 for 165. Unless you're including Admixture in which case applying it to both spells raises the damage of both but keeps the separate equivalent). I pointed most of this out already in my last posting, but perhaps I should reiterate what's lost for that 6.5 damage:
-Range. At CL20, we're talking about a 1200' range Fireball versus a 60' range (with 20 squares to fill) range Fire Snake.
-Area. 40' radius versus twenty 5' squares. One of these is insanely larger than the other (a 20' radius covers more than 40 squares, for the record)
-Level. Not important at the high end since they can both be loaded with enough metamagic to cap at 6th post-Spell Perfection, but very important for the smaller ones-- which in turn means very important for Quicken Spell. That's a pretty big deal, getting your Quickened nuke off out of a lower-level slot. I would certainly have all of my 5th-level slots (Wall of Force, Teleport, Wall of Stone) open than all my 4th-level slots.
-Metamagic reducers. Both benefit from a -1 metamagic level, bringing their primary option down to level 5 but keeping the math the same. Where things get more interesting is the Quickened end; Lineage makes Intensified Empowered Quickened Fireball a 5th-level spell for 22D6+44, while Fire Snake gets Intensified Quickened for 20D6+40. Applying both cost reducers to the spells would make it 4th-level Intensified Empowered Quickened Fireball for 22D6+44 versus 5th-level Empowered Quickened Fire Snake for the same damage. As you stack metamagic reducers you further advantage Fireball. On the non-Quickened end, with both cost reducers you're looking at... actually no gain for Fire Snake (it's still a 5th level spell at its highest metamagic firepower) while Fireball drops down to being a 4th level spell overall. Thus these advantage Fireball.
Can you really say that all of that is worth 6.5 damage? If you believe so I'd like to hear why.
As for Maximized... it's really only a trap when the Sorcerer damage bloodlines are brought in, and when you're trying to directly compare it to Intensified+Empowered instead of backing those two up with it. Take that as you will. And personally I don't think I'd ever even seriously consider picking up a Rod of Maximize for a high-level Blaster, there are just too many better rods worth the time instead. You may disagree on that front, but I can't see it being logical.
And Scorching Ray is honestly terrible for any sort of blaster focus. It doesn't work with Intensify Spell, and cutting the best damage-boosting metamagic out of play is a terrible strategy.
scorching ray is NOT terrible for a blaster focus. it merely suffers from the fact that past a certain point in the game the beasts in the game crush it. Spell resistance, fire resistance vs 6D6, and so on. Even if with all that negatives its entire possible to one shot many encounters all the way up to double digits. A gnome and human can do 18D6 fire damage at level 3.
bottom line, as with all low level spells it has trouble remaining relevant later on but is awesome early on.
I've a feeling most DM's would allow Intensify to create one additional ray, which would increase damage potential to 4x4d6, too. And that higher damage potential really sets off the spell.
But, yes, it gets turfed by any form of resistance, since the resistance applies per Ray. But, if you have carrier effects, like Daze, then those also apply by Ray...and forcing 4 daze saves on anything probably means an auto-fail.
By RAW Intensified is wasted on Ray. Houseruling it may solve that... but that's not something we can count on (and personally, I honestly wouldn't let Intensified work. It's a good enough spell for what it is already).
It's a decent low-level option sure, though generally I'd probably skip straight from Burning Hands to Fireball. But what I mean by "focus" is "the spell that the blaster build actually cares about".
