I think I'll be submitting both a Wizard and a Sorcerer. Sounds good.
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Andreww- I think it should be clear that at the beginning of the week that absolutely no prior preps can be used. All permanent spells, simulacra, planar bound allies, controlled undead, and dominated buddies, etc must be raised, bound, or created in the one week period. This includes all crafting of simulacra, and consumable magic items if purchased at a discount, and purchased spellcasting services.
Spellbook spells, full priced consumables, and permanent magic items are excluded from that rule.
I'll enter at least a fighter. Are we saying all martial builds are open?
Also, the range is definately a detriment to mythic archers. 2000' at least gives the possibility of using the 3rd range increment on the hypotenuse.
Sure, if you want to bring another martial that is fine although generally most people accept that rangers, paladins and barbarians do OK. Also multclassing is fine.
I should add one caveat on crafting magic items. No using the custom crafting rules as they get way out of hand very quickly and often make little sense. Anything crafted must be available in a PF book somewhere.
Is this a blanket rule? There are some specific costs that I think should be allowed. Customer SR items and "other" bonuses to AC and saves which have specific costs.
I would agree on that with anything that is based on exploiting a spell effect.
I suppose I should add as it never even occurred to me, Leadership is right out. This is what you can bring to the contest as part of yuor own abilities.
Leadership banned but things like Blood money and sacred geometry are allowed.
K
I suppose I should add as it never even occurred to me, Leadership is right out. This is what you can bring to the contest as part of yuor own abilities.Leadership banned but things like Blood money and sacred geometry are allowed.
K
We're comparing one class against another class. It's only logical. you are of course more then welcome to take blood money or Sacred Geometry. Or wait... do you feel they are overpowered? Why... it's almost like you think casters have overpowered options. Huh. Strange I feel like someone has been saying that all along... oh right... me.
We're comparing one class against another class. It's only logical.
Only logical to ban broken options that the fighter has access too.
But we need to let the wizard keep all of his toys.
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G#%&~#n, is one of these threads at a time not enough?
Dude, at least read the OP before you thread dump.
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We're comparing one class against another class. It's only logical.Only logical to ban broken options that the fighter has access too.
But we need to let the wizard keep all of his toys.
Leadership is not a martial-only tool, and the martial participant winning the combat by bringing along a wizard cohort doesn't prove anything.
Leadership is not a martial-only tool, and the martial participant winning the combat by bringing along a wizard cohort doesn't prove anything.We're comparing one class against another class. It's only logical.Only logical to ban broken options that the fighter has access too.
But we need to let the wizard keep all of his toys.
Mythics are not martial only either, neither are feats in general.
So I guess this whole contest proves nothing.
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Leadership is not a martial-only tool, and the martial participant winning the combat by bringing along a wizard cohort doesn't prove anything.We're comparing one class against another class. It's only logical.Only logical to ban broken options that the fighter has access too.
But we need to let the wizard keep all of his toys.
Mythics are not martial only either, neither are feats in general.
So I guess this whole contest proves nothing.
Look at it this way. If you bring leadership, then the wizard will counter with leadership, effectively negating the benefit.
In other words, leadership is a zero sum for the purposes of this contest.
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To be fair, and not to try to start an argument in this thread which is ongoing in the other... the wizard is sort of self-obviating his own need for Leadership by making ~ as many simulacrums of creatures with 9th Level Spells as spell like abilities as he wants -- and not counting against WBL via blood money.
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To be fair, and not to try to start an argument in this thread which is ongoing in the other... the wizard is sort of self-obviating his own need for Leadership by making ~ as many simulacrums of creatures with 9th Level Spells as spell like abilities as he wants -- and not counting against WBL via blood money.
Sure, but if leadership is a valid option, then there is no reason for the wizard not to take it as it is obviously the best in slot feat. All of the wizards other minions will come directly from class features, which prevents them from muddying the waters.
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In order to not muddy this thread further, I invite you to continue the discussion over in the other thread. I already have a few posts on the subject, fairly recently. If you don't want to do that, then I politely concede here.
Eh this contest is already using non-PRD material as if it is more legitimate than 3rd party or homebrew. It holds no relevance to my games.
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Eh this contest is already using non-PRD material as if it is more legitimate than 3rd party or homebrew. It holds no relevance to my games.
It is definately more relevant than PRD. Pathfinder is the game as it exists in totality as published by its creators. That includes all Paizo product lines.
I really think that no leadership and no custom items are a big problem but I'm willing to deal.
Eh this contest is already using non-PRD material as if it is more legitimate than 3rd party or homebrew. It holds no relevance to my games.It is definately more relevant than PRD. Pathfinder is the game as it exists in totality as published by its creators. That includes all Paizo product lines.
I really think that no leadership and no custom items are a big problem but I'm willing to deal.
The PRD are the rule books written by the rule devs. The other material is written by creative devs.
The PRD is Pathfinder, while the other material is just pathfinder in golarion or other settings.
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The PRD are the rule books written by the rule devs. The other material is written by creative devs.
The PRD is Pathfinder, while the other material is just pathfinder in golarion or other settings.
Really? Taking two books opened at random:
Ultimae Magic - CREDITS
Lead Designer: Jason Bulmahn
Designers: Tim Hitchcock, Colin McComb, Rob McCreary, Jason Nelson,Stephen Radney-MacFarland, Sean K Reynolds, Owen K.C. Stephens, and Russ TaylorSeeker of Secrets - Authors: Tim Hitchcock, Erik Mona, Sean K Reynolds, James L. Sutter, and Russ Taylor
And there you go.
Read this feat again and tell me all "PF material" should be the assumed default standard.
It is also entirely possible for be people to act in different capacities at different times.
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Read this feat again and tell me all "PF material" should be the assumed default standard.
It is also entirely possible for be people to act in different capacities at different times.
It comes from an official Pathfinder book, and is written by 2 of the lead designers of Pathfinder : Jason Bulmahn and James Jacobs.
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Read this feat again and tell me all "PF material" should be the assumed default standard.
It is also entirely possible for be people to act in different capacities at different times.
Why wouldn't it be? You get Pummeling Charge right? Seems fair. I mean to acknowledge otherwise would be to indicate that you felt that casters were somehow overpowered in Pathfinder and that there is some kind of martial/caster disparity.
Pummeling Charge is in the PRD, and so is divine protection and quicken spell rods.
I fail to see your point.
Pummeling Charge is in the PRD, and so is divine protection and quicken spell rods.
I fail to see your point.
Perhaps it would help to clearly illustrate your point? The only clear contention I see is that non-PRD crunch is more-or-less equivalent to 3rd party crunch. However, it's rather clear that Pazio, at least, doesn't see things this way with PFS, and if you read around the forums you'll find more people that reject 3rd party but allow all Pazio than those who would, say, allow all PRD, reject all non-PRD Pazio, but accept all Frog God Games.
Inertia and basic logic doesn't exactly favor your contention as I understand it, so perhaps clearly stating what your issue is and how it affects this primary subject of this thread would help?
I think his point is that Golarion =/= Pathfinder. Inner Sea Gods/Combat/Magic and other such regional specific books, as well as all the adventure paths, offer setting specific options. That's why they're not in the PRD. Same with blood money (from an adventure path) and Sacred Geometry (from a campaign setting book). If you want to compare the system itself, which is setup to run games on worlds other than Golarion, well, that's what the core product line in the PRD is for.
I think his point is that Golarion =/= Pathfinder. Inner Sea Gods/Combat/Magic and other such regional specific books, as well as all the adventure paths, offer setting specific options. That's why they're not in the PRD. Same with blood money (from an adventure path) and Sacred Geometry (from a campaign setting book). If you want to compare the system itself, which is setup to run games on worlds other than Golarion, well, that's what the core product line in the PRD is for.To rephrase the same statement then: Books published by the owner of Pathfinder that say Pathfinder on the cover with the official Pathfinder logo are not Pathfinder?
I... would like to hear that from Marroar Gellantara if that's what his point is.
Did you read sacred geometry?
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I think his point is that Golarion =/= Pathfinder. Inner Sea Gods/Combat/Magic and other such regional specific books, as well as all the adventure paths, offer setting specific options. That's why they're not in the PRD. Same with blood money (from an adventure path) and Sacred Geometry (from a campaign setting book). If you want to compare the system itself, which is setup to run games on worlds other than Golarion, well, that's what the core product line in the PRD is for.To rephrase the same statement then: Books published by the owner of Pathfinder that say Pathfinder on the cover with the official Pathfinder logo are not Pathfinder?
I... would like to hear that from Marroar Gellantara if that's what his point is.
Apologies, I wasn't clear enough. They are all Pathfinder products, obviously. However, you'll note that some tend to have additional wording after the Pathfinder logo on the front. One set of books and their associated wording (or lack thereof) is the system as a universal framework. This core product line, from the CRB to the Technology Guide, describes how everything (more or less) everywhere works by default. The other set is material to be used for a Golarion or near-Golarion setting, not outside of it (no Runelords on Earth). It calls out new, location-specific content and exceptions to the general rules laid out by the first. For example, Sacred Geometry is listed in a book that says on the front "Pathfinder Campaign Setting", an important bit of context. As a kind of sub-set of the larger product line, this latter group does not make any sense without the larger framework laid down by the first group. Ergo, for the contention that Pathfinder has a caster vs martial disparity in it to be taken seriously, any experimentation or theory-crafting should use the larger, universal system and not location-specific content. If Paizo were to do a Dark-sun like setting, where magic is more restricted rather than running willy-nilly like in Golarion, we'd have to redo the process, and then again for each new setting that came about. Much easier to simply do the basic system without worrying about setting-specific material. Plus, it proves the point that people have REALLY been arguing about for years, rather than getting bogged down in, "Is blood money, in fact, 8 1/2 pounds of 'casters win' cheese"?
Maybe I mistook what Marroar was saying. If so, apologies; it simply seemed his (her?) thinking was in-line with my own.
PS: For the record, my money's on Anzyr winning this, even if he DOES have to stick to shenanigan-less tactics, i.e. stay away from blood money and Sacred Geometry and the like.
Just one example Aasimar ages are different in Golarion and APs than in the advance race guide.
PRD and setting specific Pathfinder are very different things.
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I was under the impression that this thread was to track the actual duel. I think the combatants and gm should be the only ones to post here until after the duel takes place. Discussing specific tactics and rules should remain in the other thread, to keep at least the semblance of order.
Sure, but if leadership is a valid option, then there is no reason for the wizard not to take it as it is obviously the best in slot feat. All of the wizards other minions will come directly from class features, which prevents them from muddying the waters.But best in slot spells are fine, yeah?
Are those spells really a wizard class feature?
Both sorcerers and arcanist can take them. Some even argue that the shaman can have them.
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Sure, but if leadership is a valid option, then there is no reason for the wizard not to take it as it is obviously the best in slot feat. All of the wizards other minions will come directly from class features, which prevents them from muddying the waters.But best in slot spells are fine, yeah?Are those spells really a wizard class feature?
Both sorcerers and arcanist can take them. Some even argue that the shaman can have them.
the spells are a wizard class feature, just like several classes have evasion as a class feature. the class feature in question is "spells".