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I was wondering what people though regarding whether or not this weapon property allows SR or not.
First quote, phase locking weapon property:
A phase locking weapon interferes with dimensional travel. A creature damaged by a phase locking weapon is affected as though by the dimensional anchor spell for 1 round.
Second quote, Dimensional Anchor:
DIMENSIONAL ANCHOR
School abjuration; Level cleric 4, sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect ray
Duration 1 min./level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes (object)
A green ray springs from your hand. You must make a ranged touch attack to hit the target. Any creature or object struck by the ray is covered with a shimmering emerald field that completely blocks extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred by a dimensional anchor include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like abilities. The spell also prevents the use of a gate or teleportation circle for the duration of the spell.
A dimensional anchor does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, dimensional anchor does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
My own feelings are mixed. It says 'as though by...' which could be read as the entire thing (including SR) or just the effect.
What are your thoughts?
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While it is ambiguous enough to justify this discussion, I believe when a weapon affects you "as though by" a spell, you use all of the spell's rules. So, if the spell has a save, they get a save. If the spell has SR, the weapon's caster level has to beat the SR.
Hmmm, 4 ambiguous or not sure votes. Perhaps a FAQ request is in order.
Any other thoughts?
I'm pretty sure there have been similar questions asked for similar reasons and the blanket answer was that unless otherwise specified, phrasing that says "functions as <spell>" means just that.
Actually, I think the recent FAQ about durations on things like ring of invisibility is the precedent I'm remembering.
So yeah, I'd think SR applies.
If you've got a sword that - for instance - applies healing "as cure light wounds" when it hits, I'd think that there's a save for half involved. The only spell detail that might be ignored would be a target line, where if the spells says "one creature touched", while the weapon bestowing that spell says "when you hit", you don't have to/get to touch.
So if it were my table, yes, I'd be ruling that SR applies.
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I would think that SR applies as well.
Then this thought stirred in my brain:
What if the weapon was flaming or frost? Yes creatures with energy resistances get the benefit when facing a magical flaming blade, but what if the creature had SR? If it makes the SR check does the flame go out until its recalled?
Hmmmm. FAQ hit as well....
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If it makes the SR check does the flame go out until its recalled?
Flaming does not function as any spell, so there's no SR entry to consult.
The text states that you are "affected as though by the dimensional anchor spell for 1 round."
If someone casts a spell on you and you make a save, then the spell doesn't affect you (or at least not fully). If someone casts a spell on you and your SR kicks in and the spell does not beat it, then the spell doesn't affect you. Since the text says you are affected, it seems as though the wording has already bypassed the saving throw and the SR.
If the rules instead stated that you are "affected as though the spell dimensional anchor had been cast upon you for 1 round" then I could see an argument for a player getting SR and a save.
The text states that you are "affected as though by the dimensional anchor spell for 1 round."
If someone casts a spell on you and you make a save, then the spell doesn't affect you (or at least not fully). If someone casts a spell on you and your SR kicks in and the spell does not beat it, then the spell doesn't affect you. Since the text says you are affected, it seems as though the wording has already bypassed the saving throw and the SR.
If the rules instead stated that you are "affected as though the spell dimensional anchor had been cast upon you for 1 round" then I could see an argument for a player getting SR and a save.
+1
The text states that you are "affected as though by the dimensional anchor spell for 1 round."
If someone casts a spell on you and you make a save, then the spell doesn't affect you (or at least not fully). If someone casts a spell on you and your SR kicks in and the spell does not beat it, then the spell doesn't affect you. Since the text says you are affected, it seems as though the wording has already bypassed the saving throw and the SR.
If the rules instead stated that you are "affected as though the spell dimensional anchor had been cast upon you for 1 round" then I could see an argument for a player getting SR and a save.
+3
Also how I first read the RAW and for balance/common sense reasons that all but has to be RAI.
... but FAQing too, just in case.
Actually, the "affected by" argument has moved me. I agree, now, that it should be subject to SR.
mplindustries, you have confused me a bit. Wasn't your original stance that it should be subject to SR? Are you just re-affirming your original stance or did you make a typo that you stance is now 'not subject to SR'?
Oh, typo. I no longer believe it should be subject to SR.
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I still don't buy the argument. So, what, you hit a golem with this thing and say that the golem is suddenly subject to dimensional anchor despite its immunity to spells that allow SR?
No. The target is affected as if the spell were cast on them, which may have no result.
Sanity-check. I make a weapon that bestows fireball that only affects the target I strike, and it affects that target upon striking. So... I whack a red dragon, which is immune to fire damage. The argument that the dragon takes fire damage because he's "affected" is kind of irrational. No, there'd be an SR check, a saving throw, and then a total disregard for any resulting fire damage should the checks allow any because regardless of those checks, the dragon is immune to the damage.
Immune is immune, and SR is effectively immunity to weak casting.
Magic items have caster levels. What a convenient thing.
Yes, this is mincing words, but when you've got two ways to interpret the RAW, you should always do so in the direction that makes sense, not (necessarily) the direction that is more powerful and is therefore more satisfying. The urge is to say "yes, player, you can DO that!" but in this case it doesn't pass the sensibility sniff test. So recognizing that, deliberately parse the wording of this the way that makes sense: affected, just like a spell were cast on you, which means we go through all the usual rigamarole that happens when a spell is cast.
I would not require one to roll SR, but in the case of a creature immune to spells that were subject to SR, that would include immunity to the Dimensional Anchor effect.
So, the Golem would be affected as if by Dimensional Anchor, but it would be immune to it.
As a point of comparison, there are supernatural abilities that use spell effects. Supernatural abilities are not subject to SR. So the idea that non-spell (and non-SLA) spell effects still use SR is not true.
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability’s effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells. See Table 16–1 for a summary of the types of special abilities.
Example ability:
Anchoring Aura (Su): At 8th level, a paladin’s aura hampers extradimensional travel by evil outsiders. The aura extends 20 feet from the paladin. Evil outsiders attempting to use abilities such as dimension door, plane shift, or teleport to leave or enter the aura must succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the paladin’s level + the paladin’s Charisma modifier); failure means the ability does not function, as if the outsider were affected by dimensional anchor. The aura functions only while the paladin is conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead.
Alternatively, as an immediate action, the paladin can expend one use of her smite evil ability to target an evil outsider within 30 feet with dimensional anchor. A targeted dimensional anchor persists even if the paladin is unconscious or dead.
This ability replaces aura of resolve.
So, that eliminates the idea that all non-spell (or non-SLA) spell effects = SR. If a Supernatural ability uses a spell's effect on a creature with SR (or even immunity to spell) that is still not a spell and thus SR is not checked.
Here is a supernatural "spell" that would affect Golems:
Force Bolt (Su) A witchwyrd can “throw” a magic missile (1d4+1 damage) from each free hand as a free action (maximum of two per round). If it has absorbed a magic missile, it can throw an additional force bolt that round, expending the absorbed energy (maximum of two additional bolts per round).
A Witchwyrd could absolutely "Magic Missile" a Golem to death using Force Bolts. Why? Because there is no SR for Supernatural abilities and the Golem's magical immunity only applies to Spells and Spell-Like Abilities, not Supernatural abilities even if they mimic Spells and SLAs.
The same applies to magic items IF they apply the effect without casting the spell.
So, we are back to the question is the item casting the spell (thus SR applies) or is it just the effect of the spell (ie: spell is resolved and these are the effects).
As an interesting note, the wording for Anchoring Aura and Phase Locking is almost identical.
Anchoring Aura: "as if the outsider were affected by dimensional anchor."
Phase Locking: "A creature damaged by a phase locking weapon is affected as though by the dimensional anchor spell for 1 round."
Of course, that doesn't mean much IF Phase Locking is effectively casting the spell. It may still be ambiguous.
"Spell Resistance
Spell resistance is the extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells. Some spells also grant spell resistance.
To affect a creature that has spell resistance, a spellcaster must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature's spell resistance. The defender's spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks. If the caster fails the check, the spell doesn't affect the creature. The possessor does not have to do anything special to use spell resistance. The creature need not even be aware of the threat for its spell resistance to operate.
Only spells and spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance. Extraordinary and supernatural abilities (including enhancement bonuses on magic weapons) are not. A creature can have some abilities that are subject to spell resistance and some that are not. Even some spells ignore spell resistance; see When Spell Resistance Applies, below.
A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature's next turn. At the beginning of the creature's next turn, the creature's spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).
A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.
A creature with spell resistance cannot impart this power to others by touching them or standing in their midst. Only the rarest of creatures and a few magic items have the ability to bestow spell resistance upon another.
Spell resistance does not stack, but rather overlaps. "
Since "Only spells and spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance. Extraordinary and supernatural abilities (including enhancement bonuses on magic weapons) are not.", I guess weapon will still work. The logic behind this is because spell is so powerful doesn't require to hit. So it's much easier to land a spell. That's what spell resistance for. As for weapon, because it requires a hit and there are many ways to avoid a hit, for spell resistance doesn't work for weapon.
I would not require one to roll SR, but in the case of a creature immune to spells that were subject to SR, that would include immunity to the Dimensional Anchor effect.
So, the Golem would be affected as if by Dimensional Anchor, but it would be immune to it.
Are Golems immune to the extra damage from a flaming weapon or Bane Weapon? I would say no.
Also, with that magic immunity you are going to have a hard time teleporting one anyway.The logic behind this is because spell is so powerful doesn't require to hit. So it's much easier to land a spell. That's what spell resistance for. As for weapon, because it requires a hit and there are many ways to avoid a hit, for spell resistance doesn't work for weapon.
I think this is an excellent point that is hard to convey.
While Dimensional Anchor (DA) does require a touch attack I get your point. There are 2 defenses to DA cast as spell: Touch Armor Class and Spell resistance. Touch AC is very easy to overcome.
With the weapon you have to overcome normal AC. Much harder. I think there is a parity there.
Continue to believe that no SR applies.