I have a Paladin that is one XP from second level. Originally I was planning to take the Hospitaler archetype but I'm not certain how good an idea this is -- especially since I'm taking the Holy Guide archetype that replaces at least one Mercy.
Paladin
4: 2+ Cha Lay on Hands (LoH), 2d6 Channel (possible 2+), 1 smite
5: 2 + Cha LoH, 3d6 channel (possible 2+), 2 smites
7: 3 + Cha LoH, 4d6 channel (possible 3+), 3 smites
11: 5 + Cha LoH, 6d6 channel (possible 4+), 4 smites
Hospitaler
4: 2 + Cha LoH, 3 + Cha Channel 1d6, 1 smite
5: 2 + Cha LoH, 3 + Cha Channel 1d6, 1 smite
7: 3 + Cha LoH, 3 + Cha Channel 2d6, 2 smites
11: 5 + Cha LoH, 3 + Cha Channel, 4d6, Aura of Healing, 2 smites
The Paladin is rather feat starved, so I don't anticipate getting Selective Channel. That means that most of the time any Channels would be out of combat healing and take away from the swift self-heal in combat that keeps the Paladin going. It also seems like quite the hit in terms of number of smites.
The Hospitaler has a lot more healing capability at the expense of only half as many smites. It would save a lot on healing costs, but I'm not sure that would be enough to make a significant difference. With only half as many smites, if there is normally more than one EVIL opponent this would reduce the damage potential significantly. If there usually is only one then it doesn't hurt much.
I would appreciate hearing about other people's experiences in PFS with Paladin vs Hospitaler. In particular, have you often wished you had either more Channels or more smite evil uses?
I know that I'm going to take the Holy Guide archetype, it fits the character. I'm just trying to figure out if the Hospitaler is worth it.
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Greetings! And welcome to Pathfinder Society.
This forum isn't really the best place for character builds, so I'll flag it to be moved to the Advice Forum.
Good luck with your character!!
I put it here because the advice is specific to PFS. The randomness of the groups and the relatively small number of encounters would both make a significant difference in the value of the advice.
There is no PFS advice forum, so I thought the PFS General would be most appropriate.
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Hospitalier is pretty good for a heal specific build. I have an Aasimar Life Oracle/Hospitalier Paladin/Merciful Healer Cleric/Holy Vindicator build that I'm working out the kinks on. It can get a little dull if your group is the rocket tag style of gamers, but a more balanced group will love you for your ability to soak massive amounts of damage. The way my current build is going, I'll have a total of 3 channel pools with 25ish total channels and 10 Lay on Hands at 12th level. This comes into play more with Quick Channel, Channeled Revival, and Reactive Healing as well as Ultimate Mercy. With both Life Link and Shield Other going, you're likely to collapse once or twice. Reactive healing negates this, and can keep you from dying quite handily.
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PFS is not so deadly you need to have your builds be 100% efficient. The random nature of parties means that sometimes the best healer in the party is the guy who can UMD a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, and sometimes you have multiple life Oracles at the table. As long as healing isn't the only thing you can do effectively, then you should be fine. Versatility is key to enjoying PFS.
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Bret, to answer your question simply... yes, it can be very useful.
In fact, I was really thinking about doing that with my Paladin, but decided against it. For no apparent reason. I have seen a Hospitilar Paladin running in my Eyes of the Ten game, and he has been simply awesome.
Sure, your channels will be a bit smaller than those of a normal paladin, but you get both channels and lay on hands. Later, pick up a Phylactery of Positive Channeling, and you'll be doing great (as well as Bracers of the Merciful Knight).
I would agree that you don't need to over-optimize for PFS... personally, I prefer more balanced characters, with things they can do other than murder-hobo. My pally has stats of S14 Co14 D12 I13 W8 Ch18 (at 4th level). Hardly over-optimized, and he's killed a Huge Black Dragon at 8th level (well, he did have some help, but did almost all the damage in one round with three confirmed smiting crits. Unfortunately, not the FIRST round!).
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Hi BretI
I can give you some of my experience. I have a 7th level hospitaler paladin in PFS at the moment, and it has been a mixed bag. Here's some of the stuff I know now that I wish I knew then.
1. Channel- Using this to actually heal people is really bad. Like terrible. Level 1-3, you don’t get it, level 4-5, its heals a whopping 1d6. It’s embarrassing. What I have been using it for is to fuel feats and abilities that use channel. My paladin worships Apsu, and therefore qualifies for the divine barrier feat, allowing me to burn a channel to give the entire party improved evasion for one elemental attack. Real handy.
Also, the Meditation crystal is golden, allowing you to turn your rubbish channel uses into very handy Lay on Hands. Check it out.
https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/equipment---final/goods-and-ser vices/toys-games-puzzles#TOC-Meditation-Crystal
2. Healing in general- I don’t play the healer role of the party, I play a real tanky frontliner. With all the uses of LOH from using both the channel pool and LOH and a high charisma, I have a very large effective HP pool. In actuality, it’s too high. I spent too much of my point buy on charisma, and not enough on strength. I would recommend starting with at least a 16 in str, but an 18 would be golden. With your terrible channel dice, its really hard to play a dedicated healer, and as mentioned, you don’t have the feats spare for selective channel.
In PFS, you generally have 3 or so encounters per module. I have never, ever, gotten even close to running out of LOH in a scenario. I’m running bonekeep this weekend, so that might change, but for self-healing, I really over-estimated how much I would need.
3- Fey foundling- Take it. Just do it. Also, greater mercy, for LOH shenanigans.
4- Alternates- Something I have very strongly considered is the sacred servant archetype. The divine bond gets you more uses of LOH, and the perks of bonus spells and a free domain are pretty strong.
Overall, I really enjoy playing a hospitaler. I love being at the front lines, getting swung for 30 damage and healing back to full immediately. However, you do pay for this with a lack of offense.
Thanks everyone, this is helpful.
WiseWolfOfYoitsu it sounds like you're working on a really powerful healer. Good luck on it, I hope it works for you.
trollbill, good to hear that even at the higher levels it isn't necessary to have a dedicated healer.
Silbeg and Zedorland, thank you both for the insight and advice.
Since my concept was to merely be a competent backup healer, I think the hospitaler is probably overkill. I'll remove the archetype for more smiting fun. I'll need to add those Bracers of the Merciful Knight to my wish list for higher level though, the two extra uses and +2d6 on LoH would be useful.
If anyone is interested, Sul is the Paladin in question.
Hospitaler is more of an out of combat healer if you want to heal in combat stick to the regular pally and take xrta lay on hands several times.
But from what I understand you really don't need an in combat healer for PFS games. To tell the truth I have never played PFS, the games I tend to play in and GM are much more brutal.
I've built an Oradin that works in similar fashion, designed to be a frontline protector & beatstick while utilizing free and swift actions for efficient combat healing. I used one of my grandfathered aasimars for this, but its still doable on any other race.
From the Oracle class, you'll want the Life Mystery to grab Life Link and possibly Channel Energy. You can stop taking this class after two levels, however, four levels will give you access to 2nd level spells, which can be very handy. Going 4 levels will also give you that many targets in which you can link with. The rest goes to paladin, preferably with an archtype that'll give you lots of extra Lay on Hands.
For me, I gave my Oradin UMD with the Dangerously Curious trait so I can use wands of Shield while going with a greatsword as my main weapon. (I can't seem to unsubscribe from Team 2-hander.) Fey Foundling and Greater Mercy is a must-have for this build as well as Bracers of the Merciful Knight to make up for the level dipping. Antagonize is also a consideration for me since I want enemies to attack me instead of the more squishier members of my party. Extra Lay on Hands is a given. If you're an aasimar, you can spend your favored class bonus to boost your oracle channels. With a Phalactary of Positive Energy, you'll end up with a whopping 5d6 with four Oracle levels.
Regardless of how you build it, you should be well set up at 6th level. Mine is on the doorstep to 3rd level currently. I can't wait to see it at 6th.
My seeker level character for PFS is a Hospitaller Oradin. Taking Hospitaller over any other archetype has saved both my bacon and that of my party members on a few occasions. It's also allowed me to do things like bring neutral combatants back from the dead.
The key to the effectiveness? Meditation Crystals.
I convert my channels directly into Lay on Hands. My channel dice are pitiful, but my LoH is respectable.
Oh, and as another poster said, take Fey Foundling. It's the best.
Edit to add: Oradin. In case the term is lost on you.
Maybe not helpful in the least, but check out this awesome painting of a hospitaller macing a guy off the battlements at Acre.