[Eric Morton Presents] Custom Class Builder (coming soon)


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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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Have you ever wanted to make your own class but not known where to start? Have you ever wanted comprehensive class creation rules that remove much of the guesswork from the process?

If so, the Custom Class Builder, currently in development, is the book for you.

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The rules in the Custom Class Builder allow you to create new base classes by combining abilities drawn from dozens of different sources. As of this post, these rules incorporate every class feature of every core class, base class, hybrid class, prestige class, and archetype found in first-party Core, Advanced, and Ultimate rulebooks (over three-thousand class features in all).

More than just a compilation of existing abilities, the Custom Class Builder revises and expands upon the included class features. Among other small but useful changes, redundant abilities and arbitrary restrictions are being dropped; ambiguous wording is being clarified; and many class features with limited uses per day are being tied to a single, universal resource pool.

All of these class features are utilized by comprehensive but straightforward class creation rules. Class features are sorted by theme and level into focused, manageable lists, with guidelines for quickly finding and selecting class features that fit a given class concept. The Custom Class Builder aims to make creating a new class no more difficult than creating a new NPC.

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Needless to say, the Custom Class Builder is a rather complex project. As a result, I am not yet ready to set a firm release date. I can only say this book will be available in some form starting in 2015. My plan is to make the initial release a PDF-only Beta edition. Periodic updates of the Beta will be provided, free-of-charge, to anyone who purchases the PDF, as will a PDF copy of the final, non-Beta version of the Custom Class Builder.


@Eric - how does your current design approach compare to Rynjin's Freeform Class Selection guide or the d20 Class Construction Engine?

I'm imagining your system to be a little more streamlined and with added design advice - do's and don'ts etc...


Will it choke on 3pp classes?


you going to incorporate your epic meepo presents archetype features as well?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
@Eric - how does your current design approach compare to Rynjin's Freeform Class Selection guide or the d20 Class Construction Engine?

I'm glad you asked that question.

The Custom Class Builder is a menu-based system, not a point-based system like the other resources you mentioned. For another example of a menu-based system, just look at the default character creation rules. When you create a character, you pick a race from one menu of options, a class from a different menu of options, an archetype from a third menu of options determined by your previous choice, etc. At times during the process (such as assigning skill ranks), you will have a budget of points to spend, but points you are spending don't carry over from one step of the creation process to the next.

I designed my class creation rules as another menu-based system so they would be a natural extension of the game's existing design philosophy. If you know how to create a character, you can use similar methods detailed in the CCB to create a class without ever having to master the added wrinkles of a point-based system. (While point-based systems are more flexible than menu-based systems, you pay for that flexibility with an exponential increase in the number of trap options available.)

Ocienshieldwolf wrote:
I'm imagining your system to be a little more streamlined and with added design advice - do's and don'ts etc...

The Custom Class Builder is going to be as streamlined as possible, and will definitely incorporate design advice, either explicitly or as built-in functions of the rules. The Custom Class Builder isn't just focused on designing the class you want, it's focused on designing the class you want in a way that makes that class viable.

For example, years of player feedback have indicated that the rogue, while fun, has fewer interesting options than nearly every other class. If you line up the class features of the rogue next to the class features of any other skill-based class, that second class invariably has more things it can do in a typical adventure than the rogue does. Based on this design insight, the Custom Class Builder cannot be used to recreate the rogue class; when you create a rogue-like custom class, the rules automatically prompt you to add more benefits to your class than the rogue class gets.

Interjection Games wrote:
Will it choke on 3pp games?

While 3pp classes won't be explicitly mentioned in the Custom Class Builder, the class creation rules are modular enough that converting most 3pp class features into class creation options should be relatively easy to do.

If the Custom Class Builder generates enough interest, I plan on following it up with a Psionic Class Builder. In addition to explicitly adding psionics as an option, this follow-up product would showcase how easy it is to add new class features to the existing class creation rules.

christos gurd wrote:
you going to incorporate your epic meepo presents archetype features as well?

Those archetypes won't be incorporated into the Custom Class Builder (though they might appear in a follow-up product that presents additional class options). That being said, if you see an archetype you like that isn't covered by the CCB, you can likely design a custom class that gets every class feature replaced by that archetype, which would then let you apply that archetype to your custom class (subject to GM approval). This won't always work, but often does.


Any news on this? Really interested will it be effective to use the class builder as a straight up character builder?


SOLD!

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

necromental wrote:
Any news on this? Really interested will it be effective to use the class builder as a straight up character builder?

The end date on this project is a ways off, but I'm still working on it. Most recently, I spent some time researching HeroLab data files. Sadly, I don't think the terms of the license involved would allow me to release the Custom Class Builder in that format, so I'll be sticking with the PDF and (eventually) print formats.

Regarding your second question, the Custom Class Builder can definitely be used as a straight up character builder. The Custom Class Builder does not assume that you are creating all twenty levels of your custom class in advance so, with GM permission, you can build many aspects of your custom class on the fly as your character gains levels.


Epic Meepo wrote:
Regarding your second question, the Custom Class Builder can definitely be used as a straight up character builder. The Custom Class Builder does not assume that you are creating all twenty levels of your custom class in advance so, with GM permission, you can build many aspects of your custom class on the fly as your character gains levels.

To expand on my question will it be possible to emulate prestige classes, specifically the limited spellcasting of prestige classes, the 3,5 assassin for example (I'm guessing not since it's not part of PF design philosophy, but it's something to think about. Really missing stuff like pious templar to add to my fighter. Or ur-priest :)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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necromental wrote:
To expand on my question will it be possible to emulate prestige classes, specifically the limited spellcasting of prestige classes, the 3,5 assassin for example (I'm guessing not since it's not part of PF design philosophy, but it's something to think about. Really missing stuff like pious templar to add to my fighter. Or ur-priest :)

Yes, it is possible to closely approximate the 3.5 assassin and other 4-level casting prestige classes.

The Custom Class Builder allows you to emulate prestige class builds by turning base class/prestige classes combos into base classes. A 3.5 rogue/assassin, for example, could be emulated by creating an assassin base class that gets rogue abilities for the first few levels, assassin abilities after that, and 4-level spellcasting using the ranger spell progression.

It is also possible to create an even slower spell progression through multiclassing. You can, for example, create a custom class with 6-level casting and assassin-like abilities; cap advancement at 10 class levels (and 4 spell levels); and add prestige-class-like requirements. That essentially creates an assassin-like prestige class with 4-level casting.

Incidentally, you can also use the Custom Class Builder to create new archetypes for existing (base, core, custom, and prestige) classes, since the Custom Class Builder includes long lists of class features that can be explicitly substituted for one another. This allows you to modify existing classes in many ways, up to and including the creation of non-casting versions of many existing spellcasting classes and casting versions of several non-casting classes.


All I can say is: groovy :D


OK, any news on this?


I very much look forward to seeing this.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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necromental wrote:
OK, any news on this?

At last glance, I have about 450 pages worth of material that needs to be edited and sorted a few dozen times over, plus some decisions to make about a hundred or so obscure class features that are so unwieldy, they should never have been written in the first place.

I also have to make a final decision about how much streamlining I'm going to do on the several hundred class features that involve bonuses which alternately scale every two, three, four, five, or six levels. The better I make the math work, the harder it will be determining when and how custom class features interact with existing class features.

TL;DR: I still have a lot of work to do on this project.


I don't envy you on this one, sir. I wish you the best of luck with it, though.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Work slowly but surely continues on the Custom Class Builder. At the end of this month, I will be incorporating the four unchained classes into the Custom Class Builder framework, replacing any older material they render obsolete by way of superior mechanics.

On an unrelated note, here's a fun fact I've discovered: on average, if you change the text of a class feature from third person to second person (by changing all pronouns and class name references to forms of "you"), you reduce your word count by a more than three percent. In a 300-page rulebook, you could make room for ten full pages of additional content by making every pronoun in the book a second-person pronoun.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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I have some progress to report, as well as some spoilers to reveal:

I'm getting closer to publishing an introductory version of the Custom Class Builder. I still have lots of class and archetype features to edit, but most of the central mechanics are finalized.

The Custom Class Builder streamlines a fair number of common class features by making them work like inquisitor judgments (or unchained barbarian rage stances): you can, in theory, gain a large number of these class features from a single custom class; every one of them scales with your class level, no matter how many others you gain; and you can (usually) have only one of these scaling class features active at any given time.

By setting things up this way, the Custom Class Builder makes it easy to mix and match class features like bardic performances, fighter weapon training, inquisitor judgments, ranger favored enemies, etc. A custom class grants a combination of these scaling abilities that fit its theme, and class members choose which one of these abilities is active at any given time.

In addition, every custom class has an ability called heroic effort, which serves as a general-purpose point pool. Some of the scaling class features mentioned above require heroic effort to activate and maintain. Custom classes can also grant various other features that would normally depend upon different point pools: arcanist exploits, gunslinger and swashbuckler deeds, monk and ninja ki powers, magus arcana, etc.

Every custom class grants one class feature per level plus a number of additional proficiencies on 1st level. Many low-level features of existing classes can be selected as proficiencies. Each custom class also gains a progression of bonus talents based upon its Hit Die, with smaller Hit Dice granting more bonus talents. Blocks of these bonus talents can be exchanged during class creation for spellcasting (or similar abilities), with larger blocks resulting in better spellcasting progressions.

The last major component of the class creation process, which I am developing now, involves companions (animal companions, eidolons, familiars, etc.). During creation, a custom class can exchange one or more proficiencies to gain a companion as a class feature; the more proficiencies exchanged, the better the companion. One proficiency might get you an animal, ooze, plant, or vermin companion that must be controlled using the Handle Animal skill, while four proficiencies might get you an independent dragon or outsider companion with eidolon evolutions.

The introductory version of the Custom Class Builder won't contain all of the three-thousand-plus character options currently in development, but it will contain a beta version of the custom class creation process, along with a representative sample of the many features that can be added to a custom class.

My current goal is to release this introductory PDF for playtesting and review later this summer.


Awesome. Go for it Eric.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

I've started putting together an alpha-test document for the Custom Class Builder. This document will include the full rules for class creation as they currently exist, plus a small sample of the thousands of character options that will appear in the final product. My goal is to publish this document as a PDF by the end of August, 2015, but I'm not yet ready to call that an official release date, so no promises.

Sovereign Court

Looking forward to checking this out.


Dotting for interest. 300 pages? Are you really looking to go that far with it?

Dark Archive

DOT

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

CalethosVB wrote:
300 pages? Are you really looking to go that far with it?

My working draft of the Custom Class Builder is roughly 450 pages long.

I eventually want to release this book as a hardcover, so its text can't rely on hyperlinks to outside sources. To work as a printed product, the Custom Class Builder has to be a comprehensive reference book that includes the full text of every class feature it allows you to add to your custom class. Hence, the large page count.


Still looking forward to this. Probably picking up the hardcover if I find the final product to my taste.


Huge interest here - dotting.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

I've spent a fair amount of time over the past two weeks voting and otherwise participating in Paizo's latest RPG Superstar contest, so my alpha-test document is slightly behind schedule. I haven't forgotten everyone who has posted in this thread expressing their interest, though, and I hope to have a deliverable ready for you before too long.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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Progress report:

I am currently doing graphic design and page layout work on the Custom Class Builder preview PDF (a.k.a., the alpha playtest document I mentioned in previous posts). I'm also looking through some stock art to find some illustrations I can use to add a bit of color.

Despite my best efforts to condense the awesomeness that is the Custom Class Builder into as few words as possible, the preview PDF is going to be 64 pages long (possibly a bit longer, depending upon the final graphics and artwork).

The Custom Class Builder preview PDF includes:

  • Rules for arcane, divine, and martial custom classes.
  • Four common themes that can be added to any custom class.
  • Over five-hundred talents, sorted by level and theme.
  • The full rules for custom class creation, allowing readers to create thousands of unique, new classes using only material included in the preview PDF.

And that's just a small fraction of the full Custom Class Builder that should be ready next year. In fact, the full product has so much more to offer than the 64-page preview, I'm going to make the 64-page preview PDF available for free or pay-what-you-want as soon as I've finished all the necessary graphics and layout work.


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I'll be looking forward to it - this sounds like fun, and I'm definitely interested in seeing how it turns out!


dotting

Scarab Sages

.


Dot....


^


Question: How much you playtested it?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Metal Sonic wrote:
Question: How much you playtested it?

I've playtested it enough to find and eliminate several hundred class feature interactions that had the potential to break things, but not enough to say for sure that I won't be making occasional tweaks based on customer feedback between now and the eventual hardcover release.

As noted earlier in this thread, the preview document is also a playtest document. With so many thousands of character options, the Custom Class Builder will benefit if many diverse groups read it, play with it, and comment on it before it gets finalized as a hardcover. When I release the preview document, I will also start a thread where customers can leave feedback.

The preview document will be updated periodically as readers identify abilities that cause problems or wording that can be improved. For example, the initial class creation rules in the playtest document are fairly permissive. If readers find that this leaves the door to potential abuse open too wide, some of the options allowed by the preview document will be converted into optional rules that are not a default part of the class creation process.


Seems good enough. It's a shame that I probally cannot afford it, unless the Dollar price drops out. 1:4 ratio is a cruel mistress.


Metal Sonic wrote:
Seems good enough. It's a shame that I probally cannot afford it, unless the Dollar price drops out. 1:4 ratio is a cruel mistress.

Well Eric did say upthread that the preview PDF would be free or pay-what-you-want at least...

Scarab Sages

What's the ETA?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

redpandamage wrote:
What's the ETA?

In theory, I could upload the preview PDF as early as Monday. In practice, I want to make several nit-picky wording and page layout tweaks so everything is a bit cleaner than it really needs to be for a playtest document. Given that, I'm going to say it'll be closer to two or three weeks from the time of this post.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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I've decided to add a sample class to the Custom Class Builder Preview so readers can walk through an example of the class creation process. I've also found a few more pieces of artwork I want to include if I can find room without going over 64 pages.

That means I need to spend a few hours creating tables, shuffling artwork around, and making some page layout adjustments, but the finish line for the preview PDF is definitely in sight.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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The 64-page preview of the Custom Class Builder is now available here as a pay-what-you-want product.

I'm currently collecting comments, playtest data, and other feedback on the preview in this thread.

Scarab Sages

When will the final product be out?


Good to have some free previews of the Custom Class Builder and Dilettante stuff for this ending 2016. ;)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

redpandamage wrote:
When will the final product be out?

Unfortunately, the final product is on indefinite hiatus. A non-compete clause in my current employment contract precludes me from owning and operating a rival publishing company.


I'm sorry to hear that, sir. Please pardon my asking, but may we assume that also means the Animal Races PDFs that you were doing are also finished?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Eric Hinkle wrote:
I'm sorry to hear that, sir. Please pardon my asking, but may we assume that also means the Animal Races PDFs that you were doing are also finished?

Your assumption is correct. Releasing any product as an independent publisher would violate the spirit of my current employment contract.


Epic Meepo wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:

I'm sorry to hear that, sir. Please pardon my asking, but may we assume that also means the Animal Races PDFs that you were doing are also finished?

Your assumption is correct. Releasing any product as an independent publisher would violate the spirit of my current employment contract.

That's a shame. I really love those PDFs and was looking forward to the ones for horses, hyenas, etc. Hopefully someday you can return to them and the custom class builder.

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