Highest dmg archer build there is


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@Bigdaddyjug - Dont remember this?

@ughbash - Because the ZenArcher is a wisdom based Archer. So while your Fighter will have a WIS of 18 netting him a +4/+4 on hit/dmg, the ZenArcher will have WIS of 32 netting him a +11/+11 on hit/dmg. This vastly overshadows Weapon Training and puts them at crazy DPR on targets within 30ft.

Silver Crusade

Slacker2010 wrote:

@Bigdaddyjug - Dont remember this?

@ughbash - Because the ZenArcher is a wisdom based Archer. So while your Fighter will have a WIS of 18 netting him a +4/+4 on hit/dmg, the ZenArcher will have WIS of 32 netting him a +11/+11 on hit/dmg. This vastly overshadows Weapon Training and puts them at crazy DPR on targets within 30ft.

Yesss!!! I remember that. I still don't know who you are, though. The only people I know from the BR area who were at CoastCon were the Gremillions and Jake.


I'm not one of the Gremlin brothers.

Im telling Brett you forget about him, guess even being a VL doesn't get you recognition.

Silver Crusade

Well Brett is obvious, and I know his board handle.

But wait, let's get back to the traits for the ZAM. I took Reactionary. But, with a 7 Int, it doesn't seem to make sense to take Wisdom in the Flesh. Is there another trait that stands out for a ZAM?

If I take Quain Martial Artist and then use Ki arrow to get unarmed damage on my bow strikes, can I add the +1 from Quain Martial Artist to the arrow damage?


About that, Why do you need the 19 Wisdom? This is PFS. Some skills are helpful. I have a ZenArcher in Skull and Shackles and he works fine with a 12 dex since after level 3 you wont need it. Before then I mostly used unarmed strikes with my 14 STR.

I wouldn't worry about Quain Martial Artist. Its not until much later in your career that its worth spending the Ki on unarmed damage with a bow. The extra attack is better.


Wisdom in the flesh makes it a class skill and wisdom based. So if you can do disable device almost as well as a rogue and your perception is amazing. As a scout, a ZAM is pretty darn good. Other traits that are decent are reflex saves or fort save bonus.

Silver Crusade

That's true, I wasn't thinking about that. I guess I don't technically need 19 Wis, but dropping it to 18 makes for a messy point spread. I suppose I could go:

14/14/12/12/18/7 and put the FCB into HP. That still gives me 10 HP at level 1, which should be more than enough. I also plan on using GM credit to get to at least level 2 before I play this character.

Trying to use a bow with just a +2 on the attack roll sounds painful. At least at level 2 it jumps to +4 from the +1 BAB and Weapon Focus.

I'm consnidering getting a Dex belt for this guy and buying a wand of bull's strength for one of the casters to use on me. That way I can get bonus damage on the adaptive composite longbow and have a stupid high AC.


Of Course you want to go into Evangelist. I forget who I'm talking to. You can qualify after 5 levels and take your 6th level in the PrC.

Playing 1 to 3 scenarios with a 12 DEX won't kill you. Especially at that level where everything is easy. Try 14/12/14/10/18/8, this will give you 4 skills a level. You can even drop the CHA to 7 and get 12 INT. This is the spread I used on my Zen Archer. And I used a lot of melee attacks at level 2. I would also consider Toughness in place of Improved Initiative.

FCB can go into HP or the alternate 1/4 Ki

You dont need a belt of DEX, you won't be using DEX after level 2.

Silver Crusade

I was considering the Dex belt strictly for AC purposes. I figure if I can get a Dex belt and have bull's strength cast on me for almost every combat, why not take the best of both worlds?

I'll swap Dex and Con scores and go 14/12/14/12/18/7.

As I said, I'll assign 3 GM credits to this guy to get him to level 2, then the bow use, or even unarmed attacking, won't be so painful. With 12 Int and being human, I'll get 6 skill ranks per level. I'll probably take the 1/4 ki point FCB.

I'm not 100% certain I'm going to go into Evangelist, as it seems like a much better option for a long term game, like one that gets to level 14 atleast. But it's definitely an option I'm going to keep open. I'll have to buy ISG to do it.


You are a power hungry mongoler

Silver Crusade

I just said that!


Slacker2010 wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Still, I have issue with it. People understand when you show melee DPR that they have to be in their face, but I feel like with this pariticular case it makes a huge difference, and so at the very least the damage should be shown with and without. We have vastly different experiences in game play it seems, and that just further reinforces my point that it's not something you can count on all the time. And sure you can get into 30ft of an enemy, and for a zen archer isn't much of a problem with Point Blank Master and a good AC, but every time you move you can't flurry and you only make one attack which is a huge decrease in damage over the course of the fight.

That is fine, we can agree to disagree. I "feel" its a tactics issue. If they are not within 30ft of me they are not hurting my teammates, and I will still murder them at range. Just not as fast. Kind of the same reason if you shot me a wizard build im not going to complain about your HPs or AC. Good group tactics and your melees will run interference for you. I put all this in that category.

I dont feel like doing the numbers again, im dumb and didn't do it in a spreadsheet. He is getting +12/+12 (Boon3 & PBS) if they are within 30 ft. So its going to be a HUGE hit to the numbers. He could also take the time to activate spirit form and gain +4 Wisdom and flying as his first standard action if he needs.

That's fair enough. I think we now understand one another points and that's really all I wanted.

It was really I wanted to throw out a disclaimer for anyone who looks at that build and think that levels 1-13 it's going to be a damage power house. It's good, but until it gets the 3rd boon (earliest level 14 I think) it's damage isn't as good compared to a straight fighter archer (though it has infinitely better defenses).


Claxon wrote:

That's fair enough. I think we now understand one another points and that's really all I wanted.

It was really I wanted to throw out a disclaimer for anyone who looks at that build and think that levels 1-13 it's going to be a damage power house. It's good, but until it gets the 3rd boon (earliest level 14 I think) it's damage isn't as good compared to a straight fighter archer (though it has infinitely better defenses).

Depending on if your GM follows the cover rules (mine does) then the ZenArcher is better DPR until about 9 if I remember when i ran the numbers. I did the builds at 10 and fighter was on top and I rolled it back to 9 and they are just on par. At 11 the fighter takes a notable step forward due to IMP. But your right, defensives and utility its not even close. Not even for just plan fun.

Strait Sohei didnt even come into play until 15.

Before Advanced Class Guide and Inner Sea Gods, I stated a few builds out to 20 and the best was Sohei8/Fighter12. You give up your 3rd irritative bonus in flurry but the fighter feats along with G.Weapon Focus and G.Weapon spec made this build a beast.

Wait a sec...I still have it somewhere. Probably some errors cause I never had anyone double check it. Here we go:

Sohei/Fighter:
Ability Scores:
STR: 24 (+7) (14 base, +4 tome, +6 belt)
DEX: 32 (+11) (15 base, +2 racial, +4 level, +5 Tome, +6 belt)
CON: 20 (+5) (13 base, +1 level, +6 belt)
INT: 10 (+0)
WIS: 18 (+4) (12 base, +6 Headband)
CHA: 8 (-1)

Saving Throws
Fort: +25 Ref: +27 Will: +22 (+2 vs enchantments)

AC: 50 - Touch 39, Flatfooted 32 (+10 base +8 armor bonus, +11 dex, +6 Mirror Moves, +3 Barkskin, +5 Ring of Protection, +6 Monk bonus)

Attacks: C.Longbow +44; 1d8+23+1d6 dmg (19-20/x3)
Deadly Aim +39; 1d8+33+1d6
Fl, MS, DA, RS +36(x2)/+36/+36/+31/+31/+26/+21; 1d8+35+1d6 dmg (19-20/x3)
With Ki & Haste +37(x2)/+37/+37/+37/+37/+32/+32/+27/+22; 1d8+35+1d6 dmg (19-20/x3)

Fighter Class Abilities (12 levels):
Weapon Guard (replaces Bravery)
Weapon Training +3 (replaces Armor Training)
Reliable Strike (replaces Weapon Training 1)
Mirror Move (replaces Weapon Training 2)

Monk Class Abilities (8 levels):
Flurry of Blows
Devoted Guardian (replaces Stunning Fist)
Evasion
Monastic Mount (replaces Fast movement & Increase unarm damage)
Maneuver Training
Still Mind
Ki Pool (10 points)
Ki Weapon (replaces slow fall and abundant step)
High Jump or Barkskin
Weapon Training (replaces Purity of Body, Diamond Body, Quivering Palm, Timeless Body, Tongue of Sun and moon)
Wholeness of Body

BAB: +18 CMB: +27 CMD: 48

Feats:
Human: Nature Soul
1st Level: Point Blank Shot
Fighter 1st: Precise Shot
Fighter 2nd: Rapid Shot
3rd Level: Weapon Focus (Longbow)
Fighter 4th: Weapon Spec (Longbow)
5th Level: Deadly Aim
Monk 1st: Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk 1st: Mounted Combat
Monk 2nd: Mounted Skirmisher
7th Level: Animal Ally
9th Level: Boon Companion
Monk 6th: Mounted Archery
11th Level: Many Shot
13th Level: Point Blank Master
Fighter 6th: Cluster Shots
15th Level:
Fighter 8th: Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow)
17th Level: Improved Initiative
Fighter 10: Improved Critical
19th Level: Iron Will
Fighter 12: Greater Weapon Spec (Longbow)

Skills:
Max Perception
Max Ride
Some Acrobatics
Some Sense Motive
Some Stealth
Sprinkle last ranks out

Gear (880,000gp):
Belt of physical perfection+6 (144,000g, 1lb)
Manual of dexterity +5 (expended, 137,500gp)
Manual of strength +4 (expended, 110,000gp)
Composite Seeking Merciful *str24* longbow+5 (99,100gp, 3lb, hardness 15, hp55)
Vest of armour+8 (64,000gp, 1lb)
Ring of protection+5 & counterspells (56,000gp; greater dispel 660gp)
Headband of Wis+6 (36,000gp, 1lb)
Ring of Ki Mastery & Substance & counterspells (19,750gp; greater dispel 660gp)
Greater bracers of archery (25,000gp)
Cloak of resistance+5 (25,000gp, 1lb)
Luckstone (20,000gp)
Deulist Gloves (16,000g)
Boots of speed (12,000gp, 1lb)
Bottle of air (7250gp, 1lb)
ioun stone +1 armor (5000gp)
eyes of the eagle (2500gp)
handy haversack (2000gp, 5lb)
2 ioun torches (150gp)
mwk backpack (50gp, 4lb)
300 arrows (15gp, 45lb)
cold iron knuckle (2gp, 1lb)
2 weapon cords
98,430 gp

His attack routine is:

Flurry with Deadly Aim, Haste, Manyshot, burning Ki point =

+37(x2)/+37/+37/+37/+37/+32/+32/+27/+22; 1d8+35+1d6 dmg (19-20/x3)

His average damage per round is 374.1!

This is vs AC 40 and Fort save of 26 which I got from averaging (rounding up) the AC of a Balor, Pit fiend, Solar, and Great wyrm Red dragon.

This can be tweaked a bit; Critical Focus will help a lot. He doesn’t need the 3 Feats for the Animal companion but I thought it had great synergy with the Sohei Monastic Mount. Also he has about 100k to spend.

Scaling test vs AC 50; DPR becomes = 144.05


Slacker2010 wrote:


@ughbash - Because the ZenArcher is a wisdom based Archer. So while your Fighter will have a WIS of 18 netting him a +4/+4 on hit/dmg, the ZenArcher will have WIS of 32 netting him a +11/+11 on hit/dmg. This vastly overshadows Weapon Training and puts them at crazy DPR on targets within 30ft.

My question was about evangelist.

Why Zen archer 10 evanagelist 10 as compared to zen archer 20.

YES, you get your third boon earlier, but if we are simply comparing final results at 20 I do not see the advantage.

In the case of a fighter 10/Evangelist 10 I thikn you would loose out signifigantly over 20 fighter.

Just not seeing the Evangelist love for a 20th level character (leveling up 15 to 20 maybe but at 20 no).


Ughbash wrote:
Just not seeing the Evangelist love for a 20th level character (leveling up 15 to 20 maybe but at 20 no).

Did you read the "Align Class" Class feature? A Zen Archer 20 vs ZenArcher/Evangelist 20, the ZA/Evan has ALL of the abilities of a ZenArcher level 19 with boons and bonuses to boot.


Slacker2010 wrote:
Ughbash wrote:
Just not seeing the Evangelist love for a 20th level character (leveling up 15 to 20 maybe but at 20 no).
Did you read the "Align Class" Class feature? A Zen Archer 20 vs ZenArcher/Evangelist 20, the ZA/Evan has ALL of the abilities of a ZenArcher level 19 with boons and bonuses to boot.

Yes as a matter of fact I did.

Now this is a discussion of pure damage, so the fact a Zarcher gets better saves is immaterial.

However a Zarcher 20 has +1 to hit over a Zarcher 10/Evangelist 10 both for Bab and Flurry. So assuming that both the Zarcher and the Evangelist take Deific Obedience the Zarcher should do slightly more damage.

Now for 10 minutes of the day the Evangelist can do better when using spiritual form to boost wisdom though that does take a standard action to activate. However I am not sure that makes it worth saying Zarcher 10/Evangelsit 10 over Zarcher 20.


Ahh, I see what you are saying. Yes, the Feat will give the bonus at level 20 just the same. Granted you would one get one level of playing with the boon but for math reasons. You're correct, I should toss out the PrC if the characters are actually starting at level 20.

Fair enough. They are so close it really doesnt matter.

ZenArcher has +1 hit, +2 Fort and Will saves, Perfect Self class ability, +1 ki point, +1 to DCs dependant on Monk level.

PrC version has 20 more skill points, Adds Diplomacy +2 other skills as class skills, +2 Dodge bonus, 2 bonus languages, jack of all trades ability, and Spirit form.

From the pure DPR view point, you are correct.


That's why 20th level builds are a bit weird, because crazy stuff happens at 20th. Making a character who starts at 20 can be very different than a character of the same concept who levels from 1 to 20 organically.

That why I prefer looking at 12th level (effective PFS cap), or possibly as high as 16 (about where most Adventure Paths end). You see a bit of the higher end stuff, but the shaningans aren't in full force yet.

Problem with the question "Who deals the most damage?" has a lot of caveats about when and where in level progression and conditions.

For example, the reason zen-archer and ranger are more effective at archery than other classes (at low level) are their bonus feats that allow them to get by feat prereqs. The biggest of which being Improved Precise Shot. Walking around with a penalty due to cover and concealment for at least 5 levels more than the ranger or zen-archer (and those 5 levels are usually the prime of a characters "career") can really decrease damage despite what the potential damage numbers indicate, without a really good way to quantify what they contribute to DPR over the lifetime of a character.


20th level also gives the Fighter the Autoconfrom and pushes them to x4 on crits with bows.... Which makes them competitive again.

Silver Crusade

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I said earlier in the thread we should be looking at level 12. That allows all of the classes (except the Inquisitor) to have Improved Precise Shot in their build without the silliness that is level 20 rocket tag.

I'll be happy to put together an optimized level 12 inquisitor archer build, if other people want to take on the role for ranger, fighter, sohei, and zen archer.

Use a 20 pt buy and average wealth for a level 12 (108,000g). We can also use the DPR Olympics thread rules. You can't spend all of your money increasing your damage to the point where a goblin spitting on you will kill you. Any buffs that last 10 minutes per level or longer can assumed to be running at the time of the experiment. Any buffs that are a part of your class feature, like inquisitor Bane and Judgements, or that can be activated by a swift or free action, like Boots of Speed or instant enemy, can assumed to be active as well.

Attacks will be made against an average AC of 24.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Fighter - Mutation Master. Lvl 12.

The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.

h vs AC 24 is .95 on all attacks
d is 41.5
s is 0
t is .05
c is 3

Attack Total is 45.34

BAB +12 gives 3 iteratives, plus rapid shot, plus boots of speed makes 5 attacks.

45.34*5=226.7

Manyshot does not multiply on critical so round average for it is 39.43

Johnny Bowman DPR - 266.13

The stat block has the adjustments for the Greater Mutagen, Touch of Rage, and Boots of Speed figured in directly. As well as rapid shot, point-blank shot and deadly aim.

Mutagen lasts 10 min/lvl so it is allowed as an "always on" buff in DPR.
Boots of Speed are free action to activate.
Johnny Bowman took Quicken SLA (touch of rage) so he can activate is 3/day as a swift action.
Optimistic Gambler extends touch of rage by d4 rounds each time it is used.

Johnny Bowman
Half-Elf Fighter (Mutation Warrior) 12
CG Medium humanoid (elf, human, orc)
Init +9; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +13
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 30, touch 18, flat-footed 22 (+8 armor, +7 Dex, +4 natural, +1 dodge)
hp 112 (12d10+36)
Fort +13, Ref +15, Will +6 (+3 vs. fear); +4 vs. effects that cause you to lose your grip on weapons, +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities bravery +3; Immune sleep
Weakness light sensitivity
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 60 ft.
Ranged +4 adaptive darkwood composite longbow +32/+32/+32/+27/+22 (1d8+37/×3)
Special Attacks weapon trainings (bows +4, heavy blades +3)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +14)
3/day—quickened touch of rage
2/day—touch of rage
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 22 (28), Dex 20 (24), Con 14, Int 7 (5), Wis 10 (8), Cha 15
Base Atk +12; CMB +22; CMD 39 (43 vs. disarm, 43 vs. sunder)

Feats
Deadly Aim
Eldritch Heritage (Orc) (touch of rage +7)
Greater Weapon Focus (longbow)
Greater Weapon Specialization (longbow)
Improved Eldritch Heritage (strength of the beast +4)
Improved Precise Shot
Manyshot
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Quicken Spell-Like Ability (touch of rage)
Rapid Shot
Skill Focus (Survival)
Weapon Focus (longbow)
Weapon Specialization (longbow)

Traits
Optimistic gambler
Warrior of old

Skills Perception +13, Survival +2; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception

Languages Common, Elven
SQ elf blood, touch of rage
Combat Gear mutagen (greater); Other Gear +2 mithral breastplate, +4 adaptive darkwood composite longbow, belt of giant strength +4, boots of speed, cloak of resistance +3, efficient quiver, gloves of dueling, robe of arcane heritage
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Boots of speed (10 rounds/day) Affected by haste
Bravery +3 (Ex) +3 to Will save vs. Fear
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Deadly Aim -4/+8 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Improved Precise Shot Ignore AC bonuses and miss chance from anything less than total cover/concealment.
Light Sensitivity (Ex) Dazzled as long as remain in bright light.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Manyshot You can shoot two arrows as the first attack of a full attack action.
Optimistic Gambler Effects that grant you morale bonuses persist 1d4 rounds longer than they normally would as a result.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Touch of Rage +7 [5/day] [Sp], 3/day) Spell-like ability is cast as a swift action up to 3/day.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Touch of Rage +7 (5/day) (Sp) Gain listed morale bonus to attack, damage, and Will saves for 1 rd.
Weapon Training (Blades, Heavy) +3 (Ex) +3 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades
Weapon Training (Bows) +4 (Ex) +4 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Bows

*Slight overspend on items. Came out at 111,330. If it makes you cranky then reduce AC by 1 and change +2 breastplate to +1 breastplate.

Silver Crusade

I completely forgot about this. I will roll up the inquisitor now, lol.


BigDTBone wrote:

Fighter - Mutation Master. Lvl 12.

The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.

h vs AC 24 is .95 on all attacks
d is 41.5
s is 0
t is .05
c is 3

Attack Total is 45.34

BAB +12 gives 3 iteratives, plus rapid shot, plus boots of speed makes 5 attacks.

45.34*5=226.7

Manyshot does not multiply on critical so round average for it is 39.43

Johnny Bowman
Half-Elf Fighter (Mutation Warrior) 12

3/day—quickened touch of rage
2/day—touch of rage

EDIT: Though I seriously dislike the Touch of Rage + Opportunistic gambler thing, I had missed the robes of Arcane heritage. Which means that the build looks solid. My bad.

I still think that an Inquisitor (with a 1-level dip in Paladin for a good aura and Litany of Righteousness) would outdamage you at least 3 rounds a day!

Silver Crusade

Ok, here's Ingrid Inquisitor

stat block:
Ingrid Inquisitor
Human Inquisitor 12 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 38)
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +12; Senses Perception +20
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 29, touch 18, flat-footed 21 (+9 armor, +7 Dex, +2 natural, +1 dodge)
hp 75 (12d8+12)
Fort +13, Ref +16, Will +15
Defensive Abilities stalwart
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 60 ft.
Ranged +3 adaptive composite longbow +26/+26/+26/+21 (1d8+22/19-20/×3)
Special Attacks bane (12 rounds/day)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +10)
At will—detect alignment
12 rounds/day—discern lies
Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 12th; concentration +15):
4th (3/day)—divine power, greater invisibility, named bullet{super}UC{/super}, restoration
3rd (5/day)—dispel magic, greater magic weapon, heroism, keen edge
2nd (6/day)—ghostbane dirge{super}APG{/super} (DC 15), invisibility, lesser restoration, see invisibility, silence (DC 15)
1st (6/day)—bless, divine favor, expeditious retreat, magic weapon, shield of faith, true strike
0 (at will)—acid splash, detect magic, disrupt undead, guidance, read magic, stabilize
Domain Conversion Inquisition
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 24, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 7
Base Atk +9; CMB +17; CMD 32
Feats Coordinated Shot, Deadly Aim, Enfilading Fire[UC], Lookout[APG], Manyshot, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Target of Opportunity[UC], Weapon Focus (longbow)
Traits fate's favored, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +7, Appraise +2, Bluff +5, Climb +5, Diplomacy +20, Disguise +0, Escape Artist +7, Fly +7, Heal +5, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (arcana) +11, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +11, Knowledge (nature) +11, Knowledge (planes) +11, Knowledge (religion) +11, Perception +20, Ride +7, Sense Motive +24, Spellcraft +17, Stealth +16, Survival +5, Swim +5
Languages Common
SQ cunning initiative, monster lore +3, judgement 4/day, solo tactics, stern gaze, swaying word, track +6
Other Gear celestial armor, +3 adaptive composite longbow, arrows (20), amulet of natural armor +2, belt of physical might +4 (Str, Dex), boots of speed, cloak of resistance +2, ioun torch ioun stone, 2,274 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Boots of speed (10 rounds/day) Affected by haste
Coordinated Shot If ally threatens but doesn't provide cover gain +1 bon on ranged atks vs opp.
Deadly Aim -3/+6 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Discern Lies (12 rounds/day) (Sp) Discern Lies at will
Enfilading Fire +2 to ranged att vs a foe flanked by an ally with this feat.
Fate's Favored Increase luck bonuses by 1.
Greater Bane (+2 / 4d6, 12 rounds/day) (Su) Make the weapon you are holding a bane weapon.
Inquisitor Domain (Conversion Inquisition) Deities: Any deity.

Granted Powers: You are a powerful persuader. A honeyed tongue empowered by divine argumentation sways the indifferent and adversarial to your side.
Ioun torch This item is merely a burned out, dull gray ioun stone with a continual flame spell cast upon it. It retains the ability to float and orbit, and allows the bearer to carry light and still have his hands free. It may be in any crystalline shape common to ioun stones (ellipsoid, prism, sphere, and so on).

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, continual flame, creator must be 12th level; Cost 62 gp, 5 sp
Lookout Not surprised if adj ally with same feat isn't surprised. Extra actions if both are aware.
Manyshot You can shoot two arrows as the first attack of a full attack action.
Monster Lore +3 (Ex) +3 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknessess of creatures.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Second Judgement (4/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones.
Stalwart (Ex) If you succeed at a Fort or Will save for reduced effect, you take none instead.
Swaying Word (1/day, DC 19) (Sp) Spoken word of divine wisdom dominates one person for 1 min (Will neg).
Target of Opportunity When an ally hits with a ranged attack, you may make an attack as an immediate action
Track +6 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.

His buffs are:

Greater Bane
Judgement of Destruction and Justice
Heroism
Keen Edge on 50 arrows

Attack sequence is:

+26/+26/+26/+26+21 1d8+22+4d6(19-20/x2)

H(d+s) + tchd

{4*[(.95*40.5) + (.1*2*.95*26.5)]} + [(.9*40.5) + (.1*2*.90*26.5)]
=174.04 + 41.22

DPR= 215.26

This was with a quick build I threw together, so I'm sure it could be optimized more. Plus, the inquisitor has way more skill points and out of combat utility.


Rambear wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:

Fighter - Mutation Master. Lvl 12.

The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.

h vs AC 24 is .95 on all attacks
d is 41.5
s is 0
t is .05
c is 3

Attack Total is 45.34

BAB +12 gives 3 iteratives, plus rapid shot, plus boots of speed makes 5 attacks.

45.34*5=226.7

Manyshot does not multiply on critical so round average for it is 39.43

Johnny Bowman
Half-Elf Fighter (Mutation Warrior) 12

3/day—quickened touch of rage
2/day—touch of rage

EDIT: Though I seriously dislike the Touch of Rage + Opportunistic gambler thing, I had missed the robes of Arcane heritage. Which means that the build looks solid. My bad.

I still think that an Inquisitor (with a 1-level dip in Paladin for a good aura and Litany of Righteousness) would outdamage you at least 3 rounds a day!

It's a DPR build. If something doesn't feel right you haven't optimized hard enough.

Edit: I wanted to include things in the build that highlighted the fighter's build flexibility with all those feats. To me bringing STR and DEX down -2 each, 3 feats, and the robes is worth it to get +4 back to STR and have a 15 CHA instead of a 7. The touch of rage thing is some what a bonus in that combo so I spent the extra feat and trait to take full advantage of it. That is the nice thing about fighters, they can afford the feats. So much more interesting than improved point-blank or snap shot...


Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Ok, here's Ingrid Inquisitor

** spoiler omitted **...

The skills/ooc utility are a non-variable in a DPR build. In a real game you would have the support of a full party. A bard to inspire and cast good hope, a wizard to cast haste and GMW on some arrows each day so your bow could be seeking/distance, a cleric for magic vestment and blessing of fervor.

If you had reliable access to any/all of these your other choices might be different. Certainly good hope wouldn't stack with touch of rage, though touch of rage does outpace it.

Also, Johnny Bowman as statted has only chosen 1 of 4 available mutagens. He could take fly, or one of the feral forms.

By moving the gear around as described above 4k gp for a headband of vast intellect with intimidate would be affordable and useful. He could switch his FC bonus to skills from HP, or could choose Human for the skill points.

Anyway, I think you see my point.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Ok, here's Ingrid Inquisitor

** spoiler omitted **...

How are you getting the 4th attack at high BAB?


With a fresh brain this morning, I noticed I may have missed an opportunity.

By trading out greater weapon specialization for improved critical Johnny's DPR goes upto 283.34

By trading out improved precise shot (ouch) for improved critical Johnny's DPR goes upto 295.69

By trading out warrior of old for killer, and IPS for IC, Johnny's DPR goes upto 299.96

Silver Crusade

BigDTBone wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Ok, here's Ingrid Inquisitor

** spoiler omitted **...

How are you getting the 4th attack at high BAB?

Rapid Shot + boots of speed + Manyshot = 4 arrows at full BAB.

And yes, I know what you mean. I threw the build together really quick this morning. If I find anything that would increase the DPR I'll post it.


Agreed, you created a great build and I already pointed out that it is. Hell, I sure wouldn;t trade out Imp. Precise Shot for Imp Critical in a real game, but DPR-wise it rocks.

I guess my, shall we say, disenchantment lies in the fact that a large part of the build relies on the Touch of Rage 'trick' if you will.

I do not know, and have yet to check, if an inquisitor build would not do equally impressive numbers if going the EH route. Equally, I would like to see if the EH route, if left out, would cause a significant loss in the dpr of the fighter.

I guess I had hoped for a comparison between Paladin/Inquisitor/Fighter/Ranger/(Barbarian?) based on the strengths of the respective classes. At least the Ingrid Inquisitor build is more player friendly and less niche, so to speak.

Anyway, long rant, with this conclusion:

You did awesome given the parameters for building the Johny Bowman, and the thread is indeed called the highest damage archer build :)


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Ok, here's Ingrid Inquisitor

** spoiler omitted **...

How are you getting the 4th attack at high BAB?

Rapid Shot + boots of speed + Manyshot = 4 arrows at full BAB.

And yes, I know what you mean. I threw the build together really quick this morning. If I find anything that would increase the DPR I'll post it.

Manyshot won't multiply on a crit, so it needs to be figured separately. It isn't too bad but it will take some points off.


BigDTBone wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Ok, here's Ingrid Inquisitor

** spoiler omitted **...

How are you getting the 4th attack at high BAB?

Rapid Shot + boots of speed + Manyshot = 4 arrows at full BAB.

And yes, I know what you mean. I threw the build together really quick this morning. If I find anything that would increase the DPR I'll post it.

Manyshot won't multiply on a crit, so it needs to be figured separately. It isn't too bad but it will take some points off.

I'm looking at the feat and I don't see where it says that anywhere. Its not bonus weapon dice or precision damage, it literally calls it out as "a second arrow."

multishot:
You can fire multiple arrows at a single target.

Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage bonuses, such as a ranger's favored enemy bonus. Damage reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow.

multishot

I don't see anything in there that says or suggests that it is not multiplied on a crit.


Rambear wrote:

Agreed, you created a great build and I already pointed out that it is. Hell, I sure wouldn;t trade out Imp. Precise Shot for Imp Critical in a real game, but DPR-wise it rocks.

I guess my, shall we say, disenchantment lies in the fact that a large part of the build relies on the Touch of Rage 'trick' if you will.

I do not know, and have yet to check, if an inquisitor build would not do equally impressive numbers if going the EH route. Equally, I would like to see if the EH route, if left out, would cause a significant loss in the dpr of the fighter.

I guess I had hoped for a comparison between Paladin/Inquisitor/Fighter/Ranger/(Barbarian?) based on the strengths of the respective classes. At least the Ingrid Inquisitor build is more player friendly and less niche, so to speak.

Anyway, long rant, with this conclusion:

You did awesome given the parameters for building the Johny Bowman, and the thread is indeed called the highest damage archer build :)

I agree that the build is niche, and has a bunch of moving parts to track from a player perspective. Using 4 feats on the EH trick makes it feel like a fighter trick to me, could any other class afford that many feats? I do see the point that it isn't a "regular" fighter type build. The problem the fighter runs into is that without something different to spend those feats on he winds up taking things like snap shot and iron will because in-game those are super important. But in DPR build they leave him lagging because you simply run out of feats to take that increase damage.

I'll take a look at the build without EH and post some numbers later.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Ok, here's Ingrid Inquisitor

** spoiler omitted **...

How are you getting the 4th attack at high BAB?

Rapid Shot + boots of speed + Manyshot = 4 arrows at full BAB.

And yes, I know what you mean. I threw the build together really quick this morning. If I find anything that would increase the DPR I'll post it.

Manyshot won't multiply on a crit, so it needs to be figured separately. It isn't too bad but it will take some points off.

I'm looking at the feat and I don't see where it says that anywhere. Its not bonus weapon dice or precision damage, it literally calls it out as "a second arrow."

** spoiler omitted **

multishot

I don't see anything in there that says or suggests that it is not multiplied on a crit.

Uhhhh... Read it again? It's right there in your quote.


BigDTBone wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Ok, here's Ingrid Inquisitor

** spoiler omitted **...

How are you getting the 4th attack at high BAB?

Rapid Shot + boots of speed + Manyshot = 4 arrows at full BAB.

And yes, I know what you mean. I threw the build together really quick this morning. If I find anything that would increase the DPR I'll post it.

Manyshot won't multiply on a crit, so it needs to be figured separately. It isn't too bad but it will take some points off.

I'm looking at the feat and I don't see where it says that anywhere. Its not bonus weapon dice or precision damage, it literally calls it out as "a second arrow."

** spoiler omitted **

multishot

I don't see anything in there that says or suggests that it is not multiplied on a crit.

Uhhhh... Read it again? It's right there in your quote.

It says apply crit damage once, but it treats it as a single attack so...? You can only crit once on what is effectively a single attack anyways.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Ok, here's Ingrid Inquisitor

** spoiler omitted **...

How are you getting the 4th attack at high BAB?

Rapid Shot + boots of speed + Manyshot = 4 arrows at full BAB.

And yes, I know what you mean. I threw the build together really quick this morning. If I find anything that would increase the DPR I'll post it.

Manyshot won't multiply on a crit, so it needs to be figured separately. It isn't too bad but it will take some points off.

I'm looking at the feat and I don't see where it says that anywhere. Its not bonus weapon dice or precision damage, it literally calls it out as "a second arrow."

** spoiler omitted **

multishot

I don't see anything in there that says or suggests that it is not multiplied on a crit.

Uhhhh... Read it again? It's right there in your quote.
It says apply crit damage once, but it treats it as a single attack so...? You can only crit once on what is effectively a single attack anyways.

Ok, you should go back an look at the whole conversation then.

He has the "manyshot" attack listed in the attack sequence with his iteratives, rapid shot, and haste.

That's not actually how it works, but it isn't a big deal. How it works is using the first attack you fire two arrows. Those arrows share the same attack roll. If it hits they both hit. If you threaten a critical, only one arrow threatens.

He already has the crit potential damage for that attack averaged in (from the first attack) so the manyshot "placeholder" in the attack sequence won't get it's own critical chance. Those two attacks together get only one chance.

That's what I mean when I say the manyshot arrow doesn't multiply on a crit.

Silver Crusade

I see what he means.

Grand Lodge

The thought of an Inquisitor being the highest DPR archer(or one of them) fills me with glee.

Actually, as long as it beats the Fighter, I will soon have some wonderful "HA! Told you so!" moments.


BigDTBone wrote:

I agree that the build is niche, and has a bunch of moving parts to track from a player perspective. Using 4 feats on the EH trick makes it feel like a fighter trick to me, could any other class afford that many feats? I do see the point that it isn't a "regular" fighter type build. The problem the fighter runs into is that without something different to spend those feats on he winds up taking things like snap shot and iron will because in-game those are super important. But in DPR build they leave him lagging because you simply run out of feats to take that increase damage.

I'll take a look at the build without EH and post some numbers later.

Well, I understand that youd replace four feats if you drop the EH-route.

In a vacuüm you would lose +7+7 from attacks from EH

The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.

h vs AC 24 is .95 on the first three attacks, 0.85 on the fourth and 0.6 on the fifth
d is 34.5
s is 0
t is .05
c is 3

Ranged +4 adaptive darkwood composite longbow +25/+25/+25/+20/+15 (1d8+30/×3)

For the first three attacks: 113,1 dpr
For the fourth: 33,7
For the fifth: 23.8
For Manyshot: 32.775

A Total DPR of 203.37, whereas previous you had a dpr of 266.13. That means that a good 23.5% of your dpr came from the feat. That's a pretty substantial gain.

Now I realise that you'd get to respend the gold for the arcane robe and get 4 feats in return, which should probably get you close, or probably past the Inquisitor build posted above.

I'd have to look into working that 'trick' into the inquisitor build, it is actually quite clever!

EDIT: At 3 feats out of the seven you get as a human it's not feasible to include it.


Rambear wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:

I agree that the build is niche, and has a bunch of moving parts to track from a player perspective. Using 4 feats on the EH trick makes it feel like a fighter trick to me, could any other class afford that many feats? I do see the point that it isn't a "regular" fighter type build. The problem the fighter runs into is that without something different to spend those feats on he winds up taking things like snap shot and iron will because in-game those are super important. But in DPR build they leave him lagging because you simply run out of feats to take that increase damage.

I'll take a look at the build without EH and post some numbers later.

Well, I understand that youd replace four feats if you drop the EH-route.

In a vacuüm you would lose +7+7 from attacks from EH

The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.

h vs AC 24 is .95 on the first three attacks, 0.85 on the fourth and 0.6 on the fifth
d is 34.5
s is 0
t is .05
c is 3

Ranged +4 adaptive darkwood composite longbow +25/+25/+25/+20/+15 (1d8+30/×3)

For the first three attacks: 113,1 dpr
For the fourth: 33,7
For the fifth: 23.8
For Manyshot: 32.775

A Total DPR of 203.37, whereas previous you had a dpr of 266.13. That means that a good 23.5% of your dpr came from the feat. That's a pretty substantial gain.

Now I realise that you'd get to respend the gold for the arcane robe and get 4 feats in return, which should probably get you close, or probably past the Inquisitor build posted above.

I'd have to look into working that 'trick' into the inquisitor build, it is actually quite clever!

EDIT: At 3 feats out of the seven you get as a human it's not feasible...

it would actually lose +7 to hit/ and +9 damage because he would lose IEH which is giving +4 to STR. Erm... but actually +6 to hit / +8 damage because I bought STR and DEX down to afford the CHA.

The total costs of making that bit work is
Skill Focus (survival) <-- wasted
Eldritch Heritage (orc)(touch of rage)
Quicken SLA (touch of rage)
Optimistic Gambler (T)
Robes of Arcane Heritage
Improved Eldritch Heritage (strength of the beast)

So thats 4 feats, a trait, and a not-cheap item.

That build also can benefit from arcane strike (once you can afford to pick it up) because the SLA's grant an arcane caster level.

Eventually you would get Greater Eldritch Heritage (power of giants) and Quicken SLA (power of giants).

The nice thing is that all of those abilities continue to scale up.

Note on your edit: That's what I was trying to say about "using the fighter's class features." He only gets feats. So if you can find crazy things to do with a bunch of stacking feats then it really is a "fighter only" build because no one else can afford them! :D


blackbloodtroll wrote:

The thought of an Inquisitor being the highest DPR archer(or one of them) fills me with glee.

Actually, as long as it beats the Fighter, I will soon have some wonderful "HA! Told you so!" moments.

Now if we can get that Goblin Inquisitor to be the massive damage dealer, I think we've hit gold for you. :)


Bard - Dawnflower Dervish. Lvl 12.

The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.

h vs AC 24 is .95 on 1st, rapid shot, and allegro attack. .75 on 2nd attack.
d is 39.5
s is 0
t is .1
c is 3

Attack Total is 49.64, and 39.19

Manyshot does not multiply on critical so round average for it is 37.53

Scott Bakula DPR - 225.63

The stat block has the adjustments for the Good Hope, Inspire Greatness, Inspire Courage, and Allegro figured in directly. As well as rapid shot, point-blank shot and deadly aim.

Sucky part: Scott Bakula needs a prep round. ;( In the first round he casts virtuoso performance, begins a performance, uses his rod of metamagic quicken (lesser) to cast allegro, and he chucks his magic stick on the ground like a hooligan D: (free action). In the 2nd round he can swift start his second performance and full round party time.

Good Hope 10 min/lvl so it is allowed as an "always on" buff in DPR.
Allegro is a swift action to activate.
Performances are a move or swift (Bard's choice) to activate.

This build is intended as an "alternative" option for those seeking ooc options. More interesting flavor choices, and a more straight forward character. For a more traditional bard you could Skip the dawnflower dervish and not be so damn greedy with those buffs. Use Haste instead of allegro. Your party will do much better overall with that Bard in the group.

This bard isn't that bard. This bard is the solo artist. This bard is the captain of the Mother F'n Enterprize!

Scott Bakula
Human Bard (Dawnflower Dervish) 12
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +15
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 14, flat-footed 17 (+7 armor, +3 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 115 (12d8+4d10+28)
Fort +9, Ref +14, Will +8; +4 bonus vs. bardic performance, sonic, and language-dependant effects, +6 morale bonus vs. charm and fear effects
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 60 ft.
Ranged +2 frost shock darkwood composite longbow +23/+23/+23/+18 (1d8+28/19-20/×3 plus 1d6 cold plus 1d6 electricity)
Special Attacks bardic performance 28 rounds/day (move action; countersong, distraction, fascinate, inspire competence +4, inspire courage +3, inspire greatness, soothing performance, suggestion), battle dance: inspire courage, battle dance: inspire greatness
Bard (Dawnflower Dervish) Spells Known (CL 12th; concentration +14):
4th (3/day)—dimension door, freedom of movement, greater invisibility, virtuoso performance
3rd (4/day)—daylight, displacement, good hope, phantom steed
2nd (6/day)—allegro, blistering invective (DC 14), heroism, invisibility, rage
1st (6/day)—feather fall, liberating command, saving finale (DC 13), timely inspiration (DC 13), undetectable alignment (DC 13), unseen servant
0 (at will)—detect magic, light, mending, message, open/close (DC 12), prestidigitation
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 26, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 7, Cha 14
Base Atk +9; CMB +22; CMD 31

Feats
Arcane Strike
Deadly Aim
Dervish Dance
Improved Critical (longbow)
Manyshot
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot

Traits
Hunter’s eye
Killer

Skills Acrobatics +19, Appraise +0, Bluff +19, Climb +9, Diplomacy +19, Disable Device +2, Disguise +4, Escape Artist +8, Fly +19, Handle Animal +4, Heal +0, Intimidate +19, Knowledge (arcana) +0, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +0, Knowledge (local) +0, Knowledge (nature) +0, Knowledge (planes) +0, Knowledge (religion) +0, Linguistics +0, Perception +15, Perform (comedy) +19, Perform (dance) +19, Perform (oratory) +19, Ride +4, Sense Motive +19, Sleight of Hand +8, Spellcraft +0, Stealth +12, Survival +0, Swim +9, Use Magic Device +12
Languages Common
SQ battle dance, jack of all trades (use any skill), mediative whirl, spinning spellcaster, versatile performance abilities (comedy, dance, oratory)
Combat Gear quicken metamagic rod (lesser); Other Gear +3 chain shirt, +2 frost shock darkwood composite longbow, belt of giant strength +6,
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Bardic Performance (move action, 28 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Battle Dance (swift action) A Dawnflower dervish is trained in the use of the Perform skill, especially dance, to create magical effects on himself. This works like bardic performance, except that the Dawnflower dervish’s performances grant double their normal bonuses, but thes
Battle Dance: Inspire Courage +6 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Battle Dance: Inspire Greatness (Su) Grants self 4 bonus hit dice, +4 to attacks and +2 to Fort saves.
Deadly Aim -3/+6 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Hunter's Eye (Longbow) You do not suffer a penalty for the second range increment when using a longbow or shortbow.
Jack of All Trades: Trained skills (Ex) You may use all skills untrained.
Killer Add weapon's critical modifier to its critical bonus damage.
Manyshot You can shoot two arrows as the first attack of a full attack action.
Mediative Whirl (3/day) (Ex) Quicken a cure spell as a move action.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Spinning Spellcaster (Ex) +4 bonus on concentration checks to cast spells defensively.
Versatile Performance (Comedy) +19 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Comedy skill for Bluff or Intimidate checks
Versatile Performance (Dance) +19 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Dance skill for Acrobatics or Fly checks
Versatile Performance (Oratory) +19 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Oratory skill for Diplomacy or Sense Motive checks


By the way, a better Inquisitor build would be:

Human Inquisitor (Preacher)
Conversion Inquisition
Str: 18, Dex: 26, Con: 12, Int: 10, Wis: 14, Cha: 8
Initiative + 10
AC: 10+9 +8+1 (haste)= AC 28
HP: 81 (12d8 +24)

1- (H) Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
3 - Weapon Focus: Longbow
5 - Rapid Shot
7 - Deadly Aim
9 - Manyshot
11 - Judgement Surge

Hit: 9 +8 (DEX) +4 (Weapon) +1 (WF) + 1 (Haste) +2 (Heroism) + 1 (PBS) + 4 (Judgement Surge) + 2 (Bane) + 1 Bracer's of Falcon's aim= 2 (rapid shot) - 3 (DA)= +28
Damage: 1d8 +4d6 + 4 (Bow) + 4 (Strength) + 1 (PBS) + 6 (DA)+ 6 (Judgement Surge destruction) + 2 (Bane) + 2 (Heroism) = 4.5 +14 + 25= 43.5

On crits only 29.5 gets doubled + 3 from the Killer trait.

Attacks: +28/ + 28/+28/+23 (1d8 + 4d6 + 25)
0.95*(43.5)= 41.325 + (0.1x3x0.95x 32.5=9.2625)=50.5875 x 4= 202.35. Manyshot=41.325. DPR against AC 24= 243.68

Gear:
Celestial armour 22.4
+4 Composite Longbow (+4 Strength) 32.9k
Belt of Physical Might 40k
Bracers of the falcon's aim 4k
Boot's of Speed 12
Total: 111.3 (3.3k over)

These calculations include Heroism, Greater Bane, Judgement Surged Justice and Destruction judgements. I also counted + 3 crit damage from Killer trait

In addition, I guess I could go for a +2 Holy Bow and add in Greater Magic Weapon, making it a +5 Holy Bow, adding +1 damage and hit and an additional 2d6 against evil characters. (For + 8 damage)
0.95*(51.5)= 48.925 + 9.5475=58.5875 x 4= 233.9. Manyshot=48.925.

DPR against AC 24= 282.8 against evil characters.

Might have gotten something wrong, feel free to critique.

EDIT: As I have 5 reroll's through Preacher, the hit chance for the dpr calculation would not be 0.95, but 0.9975

That would lead me t0 a dpr against evil enemies of 296.93

One could technically even get destruction domain (+6 morale bonus to damage, +4 for the calculation due to already having +2 damage from heroism) and Named Bullet for another boost at the first arrow.

Silver Crusade

What does the preacher archetype give you?


Preacher Archetype, Ultimate Magic.

Spoiler:

Some inquisitors wander the land to spread the true word of their faith. Often they come into conflict with those hostile to their teachings or to the preacher's need to help those who cannot help themselves. The leaders of evil or aggressive religions send these preachers into new territories to win converts and hopefully allies. Often, they start uprisings against powers hostile to their religion, or defend a group of honest believers from the depredations of the unfaithful.

Determination (Ex): At 3rd level, the preacher is a person of few words on the battlefield, but those words hold great power and authority. Once per day, the inquisitor can use this ability to create one of the following effects. Each is a free action to use.

Aggression: The preacher may reroll an attack roll that she just made before the results of the roll are revealed. She must take the result of the reroll, even if it's worse than the original roll.

Defense: When the inquisitor would be hit by a melee or ranged attack, as an immediate action she may add a +4 insight bonus to her Armor Class against that attack, and if this makes the inquisitor's AC higher than the opponent's attack roll, the attack misses.

Warning: When a preacher's ally within line of sight would be hit by a melee or ranged attack, she may call out a warning to that ally, and the attacker must reroll the attack and use the results of the second roll. The ally must be able to hear the preacher and must not be helpless for this ability to have any effect.

Whenever the preacher could select a bonus teamwork feat (at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level), she can instead choose to increase her number of uses per day of this ability by one. This ability replaces solo tactics.

It basically means that whenever you roll a 1, you can use reroll 5/day thruogh Preacher.

Silver Crusade

I think I'd rather the teamwork feats and solo tactics. Full-round action in the surprise round and up to +4 attack bonus are hard to pass up.


I don't know if this would help much for your Morale boost damage from Orc Bloodline EH feat on the Touch of Rage, but the trait Mindlessly Cruel will net you an additional +1 damage whenever you're receiving a Morale bonus to attack rolls.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I think I'd rather the teamwork feats and solo tactics. Full-round action in the surprise round and up to +4 attack bonus are hard to pass up.

First, BigDTBone rightfully pointed out that this is a dpr comparison, not actual play. I might agree with your statement for actual game-play.

That being said, in actual play there are chances of a Inspire Courage/Divine Power/Bless etc to be active at any given time.

Looking at the build I made, I'd have 4 attacks at +28/+28/+28/+23. The average CR for an "epic" encounter (CR 15 for APL 12) you are looking at 29 AC.

This means that I would still have my first three attacks hit unless I roll a natural 1. The fourth attack would hit on a roll of 7 or higher, giving me a 70% chance to hit.

Now consider the teamwork feats:

Enfilading Fire works if one or more allies 'flank'. Now, I assume you would agree with me that you are only flanking if you also threaten (meaning you have to take Snap shot. However, the build hardly has room for Point Blank Master, meaning you threaten but will also get AoOs in your face. Point Blank Master is not available, so you'd have to get improved Snap Shot to make this work.

Coordinated Shot requires somebody to be threatening and not providing cover (which you could achieve with Imp. Precie Shot, available at level 15). he +2 only comes into play if there are two people threatening.

I'd rather kill something in the back of the enemy group or before my allies and my enemies manage to close on one another. That means the Teamwork Feats are also only situational, and due to your decent to-hit are not even extremely needed.

Preacher not only allows mme to hit more reliably, it also allows me to take 4 AC or force a re-roll from an enemy killing one of my allies. As for look-out, you are right there :)


So having looked at this thread I can not find the builds that do the most damage.

Were rules ever set down for how to build into the challenge?
What are the results?.

Silver Crusade

I said earlier in the thread wrote:

I said earlier in the thread we should be looking at level 12. That allows all of the classes (except the Inquisitor) to have Improved Precise Shot in their build without the silliness that is level 20 rocket tag.

I'll be happy to put together an optimized level 12 inquisitor archer build, if other people want to take on the role for ranger, fighter, sohei, and zen archer.

Use a 20 pt buy and average wealth for a level 12 (108,000g). We can also use the DPR Olympics thread rules. You can't spend all of your money increasing your damage to the point where a goblin spitting on you will kill you. Any buffs that last 10 minutes per level or longer can assumed to be running at the time of the experiment. Any buffs that are a part of your class feature, like inquisitor Bane and Judgements, or that can be activated by a swift or free action, like Boots of Speed or instant enemy, can assumed to be active as well.

Attacks will be made against an average AC of 24.

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