Sudden Attack: Is it an attack, or an attack?


Rules Questions


Quote:
As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to make a melee attack at your highest attack bonus. This is in addition to any other attacks you make this round. When making a sudden attack, you roll twice and take the better result, adding your tier to the attack roll. Damage from this attack bypasses all damage reduction.

I suppose more to the point, does it count as an ATTACK ACTION?

It seems to be fairly unique in the game, an ability that grants an extra attack, separate of qualifiers that it must be made as part of a full attack (Haste, Ki with Flurry/Ninjas, and so on) or from a broader granting of whole Standard Actions (Amazing Initiative, Slow Time, and so on).

So what can you do with it? Is it, as it says, simply an extra melee attack? Can you Vital Strike with it (an attack action)?

The general rule for Vital Strike not working with something is "Vital Strike is an attack action, and therefore incompatible with other Standard actions and Full Round actions" (hence why no Spring Attack or Full Attacking with Vital Strike) but this just grants an extra attack.

This ties back into the old issue of "what is an attack action?" (a term which is often used, but never actually defined). The issue has been sidestepped a number of times now, generally coming to the consensus that the attack action is a Standard action, because the rules say "making an attack is a standard action", which has worked thus far, but I think doesn't really work for this particular case as an answer.

Thoughts?


It says 'as a swift action', so I would say no, it is not an attack action.


I would agree, that is not an attack action. That is a melee attack. It's in the same category as something like an attack of opportunity; it lets you make a melee attack, but you are not using a standard action to take the attack action.


I actually don't see why this was even a question. True "as a swift action" part precludes it from being the attack action.


Mojorat wrote:
I actually don't see why this was even a question. True "as a swift action" part precludes it from being the attack action.

How do you figure that? This game is full of abilities that swap actions around, without changing what they are. An attack is usually a Standard, yes, but this is a Swift.


Rynjin wrote:
Quote:
As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to make a melee attack at your highest attack bonus. This is in addition to any other attacks you make this round. When making a sudden attack, you roll twice and take the better result, adding your tier to the attack roll. Damage from this attack bypasses all damage reduction.

I suppose more to the point, does it count as an ATTACK ACTION?

It seems to be fairly unique in the game, an ability that grants an extra attack, separate of qualifiers that it must be made as part of a full attack (Haste, Ki with Flurry/Ninjas, and so on) or from a broader granting of whole Standard Actions (Amazing Initiative, Slow Time, and so on).

So what can you do with it? Is it, as it says, simply an extra melee attack? Can you Vital Strike with it (an attack action)?

The general rule for Vital Strike not working with something is "Vital Strike is an attack action, and therefore incompatible with other Standard actions and Full Round actions" (hence why no Spring Attack or Full Attacking with Vital Strike) but this just grants an extra attack.

This ties back into the old issue of "what is an attack action?" (a term which is often used, but never actually defined). The issue has been sidestepped a number of times now, generally coming to the consensus that the attack action is a Standard action, because the rules say "making an attack is a standard action", which has worked thus far, but I think doesn't really work for this particular case as an answer.

Thoughts?

The attack action is when you use a standard action to make an attack, so this would not qualify.

edit: They would have to list an exception and say something like "normally attack actions are standard actions, but....." or "this attack/ability counts as an attack action despite being used as a swift action" etc


If they said "As a swift action, you can take an attack action", that would be an attack action. "As a swift action, you can take a single melee attack" is not an attack action.


Sudden Attack is a swift action, not a standard one. No Vital Strike.

FAQ

Quote:

Vital Strike: Can I use this with Spring Attack, or on a charge?

No. Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action. Spring Attack is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action. Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike.

Italics highlight the definition.

/cevah


Now if it said, "You may perform the Attack action as a swift action..." that'd be a whole different story. But no, this is a swift Use Special Ability action that allows for an attack.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Zhayne wrote:
It says 'as a swift action', so I would say no, it is not an attack action.

+1


You can still use the second tier mythic ability to get a standard action.

I assume anything that says "make an attack" is not an "attack action" by default.


There is one vital error in the rule's description. "As a swift action you may spend a point of mythic" spending the point is the swift action. Not the attack itself. So I don't know how to view the attack itself.

Liberty's Edge

BUD87 wrote:
There is one vital error in the rule's description. "As a swift action you may spend a point of mythic" spending the point is the swift action. Not the attack itself. So I don't know how to view the attack itself.

Why the 7 years necro?

The ability says: "As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to make a melee attack at your highest attack bonus."
You spend a swift action to do all that is listed after the comma, i.e. "you can expend one use of mythic power to make a melee attack at your highest attack bonus."

They aren't two separate acts, i. e. not "You spend one use of mythic power." and " You make a melee attack at your highest attack bonus."


Okay. Thanks for the clarification. We are playing with mythic adventures in the campaign setting and I could never find an faq on it.

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