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So, I've been going over and over the Cavalier entries in the APG and UC books. For a moment I was actually kind of intrigued by it, but the more I consider it, the more I have to wonder: aside from taking a different alignment, would there ever be any reason to take a Cavalier over a Paladin for a mounted combatant? I mean, let's compare the two:
MOUNT:
Cavalier: Gets mount at level 1. Gets some pretty nice bonus feats and also can charge without penalty. (Mount gives up the Share Spells ability, which seems unnecessary.)
Paladin: Gets mount at level 5. Mount eventually acquires the Celestial template with all of the goodies that provides.
Cavalier seems like the clear winner in this scenario, BUT level 5 is still pretty low (When is the last time your game didn't get to at least Level 5?) and the Pally pretty much gets Boon Companion for free. If you were going to focus on mounted combat, you'll probably take the best mounted feats anyway.
Ultimately, with just a minor bit of digging, it suddenly seems like the Paladin has it all over the Cavalier.
DAMAGE:
Cavalier: Challenge x/day depending on level.
Paladin: Smite Evil x/day depending on level.
The Cavalier's challenge works on everything, so that's great and all I guess. But most of what you're going to fight is evil, anyway. And the Challenge damage is pathetic, and can only get slight situational bonuses depending on the order s/he takes. Even if you take, say, Order of the Cockatrice, the Paladin's smite will still be twice as effective. (And good luck getting a boost to attack AND damage)
This is the closest I'd say to being a draw, but only if you fight a lot of animals and other mindless creatures in your game.
PARTY SUPPORT:
Cavalier: Gets a Tactician ability that functions x/uses per day. Has a banner ability that functions x/uses per day.
Paladin: Several passive buffs that remain active all the time. Can share smite ability at higher levels.
This one is no contest. Tactician is HORRIBLE. I remember reading a Cavalier guide that ranked the Gendarme as "red" for trading out Teamwork bonus feats for regular ol' Bonus Feats. Except those bonus feats are ALWAYS ON and also, am I the only one who thinks all of the Teamwork feats suck ogre droppings? Like, for something that either A) requires multiple members of the party to take it, B) Only works in specific situations, and C) They've designated important enough to limit to an x/uses per day ability, I expect some major bang for my buck. But Teamwork feats are, to a one, not nearly as good as regular feats. (With the exception, perhaps, of Outflank and Butterfly's Sting - but one of those isn't even core.)
I don't want it to sound like a foregone conclusion - what I'm wondering is there perhaps something I'm missing about Cavaliers that makes them better than I can see? My first impressions of Inquisitors weren't really that good either, but after seeing some Inquisitor builds in play I am now definitely a true believer. I'd like to think the Cavalier is something more than a crappy Paladin-wannabe, but if they're the ultimate mounted class, I'm just struggling to find what makes them so . . . well, ultimate.
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Being a mounted Paladin isn't a great option (and that doesn't answer your question at all)
The point is - and there are Paladin discussions all over this site ad nauseum - that being a Paladin is Hard Work. People clamour for easy Paladin options - CG and NG etc. but you are not just a fancy Knight. It's meant to be the hard road.
However, Cavalier's Charge is better. They get bonus feats for more combat options. The challenge can be used as an aggro mechanism. Banner gives an earlier Morale bonus to party members.
Different niche.
If your mount's intelligence is over 2 you can take teamwork feats with it.
Escape Route with your 4-legged buddy means never taking AoOs. Paired Opportunists is great, too. There are some AC and saving throw bumping feats as well. Or, like I took for my gestalt wiz/cavalier (strategist archetype), Lookout on both myself and my bodyguard-archetyped horse is a great combo. He gets to act in the surprise round and so do I, since we're nearly always adjacent. The whole party then gets to act if I use Tactician to spread the love.
I agree with Teamwork feats being obnoxious, particularly if your group has a hard time even working for flanking positions let alone more sophisticated tactics. Given my experiences thus far, I don't like taking them without a built-in partner or Solo Tactics.
The gestalt wizard/cavalier I mentioned above has a valet familiar (he gets all the teamwork feats I do via the archetype), a bodyguard horse, and the strategist's ability to train others to use a teamwork feat for brief periods. They're a lot more worthwhile in that scenario. I've got a gestalt maneuver master monk//inquisitor in another campaign with the tandem trip feat. He gets an incredible amount of use out of that.
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I'm playing a Huntsman Cavalier at the moment with a Holy Light Paladin in our group as well. It's been an interesting comparison.
Pally has more staying power with the self heals and I am more vulnerable to mind effecting magic.
However as the campaign goes on I am comeing out more flexible. Challenge applies to a lot more things and the Dogs in the hunting pack get the damage boost as well. Order of thet Dragon + Outflank gives them a really good bonus to hit (Currently a +7 bonus on top of their normal attack) so they hit frequently even though I'm splitting my Companion levels between multiple animals. With multiple Dogs I get e more attacks than the pally so that Challenge bonus damage stacks up a bit more in a round. Outflank + a Keen Rapier has made this even more significant by triggering plenty of AOO for the Dogs.
We are both Aasimars but the Favored Class bonus gives me more Challenge damage vs. his increasing save bonus. Little by little my challenge damage is out pacing his smite damage but he is at a point already where he is practically immune to spells.
Tactician only applies to my pack but Escape Route gives me and the pack a lot of mobility in a fight particularly against monsters with Reach, while the Pally is basically Feet Planted and slugging it out.
Order of the Dragon abilties have been pretty handy too. A lot of the HL-Pally bonuses don't stack well with Cleric Buffs, but the Order bonus to hit is a Circumstance bonus so there isn't as much overlap. A lot of the Pally Aura bonuses requier people to cluster around him and that has hurt us more than once.
Over all the Pally has been working as up-front meat shield that keeps the Big Bad occupied, while I spend a lot of time running around mopping up little guys before joining him. I've got lots of field control because me and the dogs create a lot of threatened space and Escape Route + Pack makes for a lot of mobility. Pally goes for the Magic Sword instead of the Mount and that has been a game changer in a lot of fights.
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You can play a Demonspawn Tiefling Cavalier, dump INT, and still never have to worry about getting outsmarted by your horse.
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Not getting hosed by your GM seems like a good reason to go cavalier.
The biggest reason to not go paladin is the RP restrictions that come with it and the hate on that some GMs seem to possess for them.
If you really want to focus on mounted combat, the cavalier was the class made for it. Quite literally.
Also, not having to wait till 5th level to get your mount so you can play a mounted combatant would probably be another good reason.
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sure, if you like the fluff from some of the orders, then go cavalier and use an archetype that kills the damned mount because I've never ever partaken in mounted combat.
Cavalier's challenge and smite evil both add the same amount of damage.
Challenge pros: work on anything
Challenge cons: no bonus to attack
Smite Evil pros: Cha to attack and AC
Smite Evil cons: only works on evil things
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Cavalier's challenge and smite evil both add the same amount of damage.
Challenge pros: work on anything
Challenge cons: no bonus to attackSmite Evil pros: Cha to attack and AC
Smite Evil cons: only works on evil things
Well, on the surface, yes, BUT the Smite Evil also overcomes any(!!) DR the creature might possess and doubles on undead, evil outsiders, and chromatic dragons.
I get that it's sort of balanced by the fact it can only work on evil creatures, but come on. That's not that huge of a drawback, considering the bulk of things you fight - especially in APs - are going to be evil.
Not getting hosed by your GM seems like a good reason to go cavalier.
Ha, best argument yet!
I'm playing a Huntsman Cavalier at the moment with a Holy Light Paladin in our group as well. It's been an interesting comparison.
I know there are a couple of archetypes that are considered pretty good - Beast Rider, Huntmaster - though I wonder how the Huntmaster will stack up with the new ACG Hunter? And it sort of replaces the Cavalier's mounted niche, which was the specific role I was comparing. Huntmaster actually seems pretty cool, but if I want a mounted combatant, is there truly any reason to go Cavalier unless I know for a fact we're not playing to Lvl 5?
Can you use the Blood of Elements book paizo just put out?
The Order of the Flame can be pretty brutal with Glorious Challenge, if you are prepared for when your AC starts to tank. Used effectively 1 use of Challenge can last an entire fight going from 1 enemy to the next as long as you don't mind your AC dropping with each new target.
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This thread inspired me a little to look over the Cavalier again. They have lots of interesting bits and pieces, but their abilities don't actually synergise that well with each other. There's no consistent benefit to a non-physical stat as a Paladin has with Charisma, far too many major class abilities take a standard action, generally lots of annoyances and fairly poor action economy. Even the full-progression Animal Companion is so limited in many cases as to be undesirable.
However, the Cavalier can still do a number of things pretty well. It also acts as a very good entry point into the interesting Battle Herald Prestige class. With 4 levels of Cavalier and 1 level of Bard or Evangelist Cleric you can effectively act as a Full Martial battle buffer. Admittedly this is more a function of the Battle Herald, but you need Cavalier class features to qualify and archetypes like the strategist and flagbearer synch up well.
I was toying with the idea of an Order of the Dragon Cavalier Strategist/Flagbearer 4/Bard 1/Battle Herald 10 earlier. Starting with High Str and decent Con and Cha, this character uses Combat Reflexes, Power Attack and a longspear to restrict enemy movement and deal damage. Once qualified for Battle Herald you can keep up Inspire Courage or Sound the Charge to buff allies, and can get Flagbearer (feat) + Banner of the Ancient Kings for further stacking buffs. At higher levels the good Charisma is a prereq for the Eldritch Heritage (Orc) line of feats for inherent strength bonuses and so on. Drill Instructor from the Strategist archetype allows the party-wide pre-combat sharing of good teamwork feats like Lookout (for solid initiative bonuses), Outflank or Stealth Synergy - all useful feats without needing the rest of the party to invest.
This build would make a good support melee character - not the main tank/damage dealer, but as a replacement for the face/secondary melee role often filled by Bards. You get decent skillpoints/level, good party-wide buffs and only lose +1 BAB and an average of 1 HP compared to a full martial. This build can also use wands for Bard spells without needing UAI, with no spell failure chance for heavy armor (spell trigger items don't count). You essentially trade off the Cavalier's mount and Charge to become a full martial party buffer, which is an unusual niche.