Alright, this is probably going to sound like a really stupid question, but what prevents characters from making infinite unarmed strikes? If I understand correctly, an unarmed strike can be made with any part of the body, albeit at a -4 with his primary "hand" and -8 with his off "hands". So what prevents a character from making an attack with his hand, and then his other hand, and then his head, his leg, other leg, so on and so forth?
probably the GM applying a modicum of common sense if somehow the rules as written could possibly allow that. But I'd assume normal unarmed strikes are limited to once per iterative attack. have you ever seen someone try and hit you with every part of their body simultaneously? it either doesn't work out too well, or was just a tackle and not an attack to begin with.
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You just have one offhand attack without the higher feats in the two weapon fighting chain.
Natural attacks are limited by limbs, unarmed strikes are limited similar to manufactured weapons.
That is to say BAB limited with the option of two weapon fighting to increase that number by up to a factor of 2.
Multiweapon fighting doesn't enter into this equation.
Unarmed strikes are limited by your BAB. You can only make a number of attacks limited by your BAB, or as provided by two weapon fighting and feats that might modify it.
So, someone with BAB 6 will have two normal atatcks they could use to unarmed strike. If they also had Improved Two Weapon Fighting they could make a total of 4 attacks with their unarmed strike, taking the appropriate penalties.
I'm a bit confused. If I did wield 7 weapons why couldn't I make 7 attacks? I understand that my off-hands wouldn't get iteratives since Multiweapon Fighting doesn't have followup feats like Two-Weapon fighting does, but each of the legally wielded weapons should get an attack during a full round action at full BAB (with penalties). For example, if I were a summoner and my eidolon had enough arms and wielded weapons, wouldn't they make an attack with all those weapons?
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Technically, you can't 'wield' 1 million unarmed strike. You have 1 unarmed strike, because you only have one body. Since unarmed strike refers to any attack* made with your body, you don't have two punches, two kicks, a headbutt, and a body slam - you have 1 unarmed strike.
You can use your 1 unarmed strike to make a number of attacks per turn, based primarily on your BAB, and possibly augmented by some extra attacks from feats, class abilities, and spells (like Haste).
*Any attack not defined as a natural attack
I'm a bit confused. If I did wield 7 weapons why couldn't I make 7 attacks? I understand that my off-hands wouldn't get iteratives since Multiweapon Fighting doesn't have followup feats like Two-Weapon fighting does, but each of the legally wielded weapons should get an attack during a full round action at full BAB (with penalties). For example, if I were a summoner and my eidolon had enough arms and wielded weapons, wouldn't they make an attack with all those weapons?
Unless you have 3+ arms, you don't qualify for MWF. Aside from that, MWF isn't what allows the extra offhand attacks, just like TWF isn't what allows the single extra offhand attack; those feats simply reduce the penalty inherent to making said offhand attack(s).
If you are an ordinary humanoid PC, you are limited to your BAB in attacks per round, whether that attack is made with a manufactured weapon or an unarmed strike. Natural weapons are treated differently. You can, if you wish to take the relevant penalties, make one additional attack each round by following the rules for TWF.
Absent any other modifiers, specific abilities, feats, spells, etc., that is all you get. It doesn't matter if you're carrying two daggers, have a boot blade on one foot, armor spikes, plan on elbowing, etc. You can only make up to your BAB in attacks with one other extra attack from TWF.
You have 1 unarmed strike, because you only have one body. Since unarmed strike refers to any attack* made with your body, you don't have two punches, two kicks, a headbutt, and a body slam - you have 1 unarmed strike.
So does that mean that Two-weapon Fighting grants an additional unarmed strike, or I am wrong about using TWF in conjunction with unarmed attacks?
And if it is the former, couldn't you take Multiweapon Fighting to "grant" additional unarmed strikes like TWF?
Yes, TWF can be used with unarmed attacks.
You have 1 unarmed strike, because you only have one body. Since unarmed strike refers to any attack* made with your body, you don't have two punches, two kicks, a headbutt, and a body slam - you have 1 unarmed strike.So does that mean that Two-weapon Fighting grants an additional unarmed strike, or I am wrong about using TWF in conjunction with unarmed attacks?
And if it is the former, couldn't you take Multiweapon Fighting to "grant" additional unarmed strikes like TWF?
No because you lack the 3+ arms that MWF calls for.
You have 1 unarmed strike, because you only have one body. Since unarmed strike refers to any attack* made with your body, you don't have two punches, two kicks, a headbutt, and a body slam - you have 1 unarmed strike.So does that mean that Two-weapon Fighting grants an additional unarmed strike, or I am wrong about using TWF in conjunction with unarmed attacks?
And if it is the former, couldn't you take Multiweapon Fighting to "grant" additional unarmed strikes like TWF?
You can TWF with Unarmed Strikes. But again,
Aside from that, MWF isn't what allows the extra offhand attacks, just like TWF isn't what allows the single extra offhand attack; those feats simply reduce the penalty inherent to making said offhand attack(s).
You are limited to the number of attacks granted by your BAB. TWF (the combat action, not the feat) allows you to add one more. Other things (like Haste or ITWF) may also allow you to add additional attacks. Short of having any of those very specific abilities which explicitly grant additional attacks, you do not get any more attacks than what you are granted by your BAB, no matter how many weapons you have at your disposal*.
* Natural Weapons excepted, of course.
Now,if you were of a race that had 3+ arms and that race had a racial feature that said they got an attack with each hand, you (I think) you could take MWF. However I'm uncertain exactly how you're treated at that point (and don't have time to research immediately); I think at that point you move from using BAB iteratives to using the natural weapon model (i.e., one attack per hand)? I could be wrong on that.
No because you lack the 3+ arms that MWF calls for.You have 1 unarmed strike, because you only have one body. Since unarmed strike refers to any attack* made with your body, you don't have two punches, two kicks, a headbutt, and a body slam - you have 1 unarmed strike.So does that mean that Two-weapon Fighting grants an additional unarmed strike, or I am wrong about using TWF in conjunction with unarmed attacks?
And if it is the former, couldn't you take Multiweapon Fighting to "grant" additional unarmed strikes like TWF?
Well, if I were being cheeky I could go with alchemist and take the Vestigial Arm discovery to technically qualify for it, even if the arm doesn't grant you additional attacks.
TWF (the combat action, not the feat) allows you to add one more.
I'm using the d20pfsrd site as a reference so take what I say with a grain of salt, but the TWF entry on the website doesn't really prohibit you from making more than just your primary and off-hand attacks, it just describes the mechanics behind the maneuver.
Now,if you were of a race that had 3+ arms and that race had a racial feature that said they got an attack with each hand, you (I think) you could take MWF. However I'm uncertain exactly how you're treated at that point (and don't have time to research immediately); I think at that point you move from using BAB iteratives to using the natural weapon model (i.e., one attack per hand)? I could be wrong on that.
Basically, it boils down to you being limited to the metaphorical (natural) "hands" your race has. The easy way to think about it is that for each "hand" you have past the first, you can make one additional off-hand attack using the Two/Multiweapon Fighting mechanic.
I'm using the d20pfsrd site as a reference so take what I say with a grain of salt, but the TWF entry on the website doesn't really prohibit you from making more than just your primary and off-hand attacks, it just describes the mechanics behind the maneuver.
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.
You get one extra attack.
It is called Two-Weapon Fighting for a reason. If Two-Weapon Fighting allowed you to make multiple off-hand attacks, there would be no need for something called Multiweapon Fighting.
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.
RAW I thought it was meant to clarify that your off-hand weapon only gets one attack per round regardless of BAB (ignoring the feats of course).
Obviously the pathfinder designers didn't intend for people to abuse unarmed strikes, I just noticed this while looking at unarmed combat and was wondering if I was missing something.
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You are 1st level.
You wearing Full Plate with Armor Spikes.
You have a Boot Blade.
You have Longsword and Short Sword.
You have Two Weapon Fighting.
That is Unarmed Strike, Gauntlet (Full Plate), Armor Spikes (Full Plate), Boot Blade (foot), Longsword, Short Sword.
Q: How many attacks can you make?
A: 2
To the OP: you do not understand correctly (to quote your first post). Unarmed strike and manufactured weapon attacks are not granted by picking another limb, etc., to make an attack with. You get your primary attack, and you get an off-hand attack. That is all (outside of natural attacks).
You do actually raise a very good question:
It seems to simply be the ability to wield additional weapons in-hand (and weapons not 'in-hand' must be swapped for those that are). The exception of course being if the ability that lets you wield additional weapons (like Vestigial Limb) specifically denies the ability to gain extra attacks.
Can anyone one up with any other criteria? After all, not even a Marilith actually has an ability that grants additional attacks, only to reduce penalties. And the Vestigial Limb ability seems to conform to the assumption that an extra weapon wielded is an extra attack available without language to the contrary.
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Alright, this is probably going to sound like a really stupid question, but what prevents characters from making infinite unarmed strikes?
Along with all of the other rules in place that are ambiguous, there is the fact that if the GM can make a DC-50 UCS[Use Common Sense] Check, he will realize that getting infinite attacks will slow down play, and go against logic and intent.
So if your DM allowed you to go with the Kasatha race (which has 4 arms and 2 legs) and you wielded four 1-H weapons or unarmed strikes, you could make 1 primary attack and 3 off-hand attacks at level 1, correct?
If your DM allowed you to be a Centaur (2 arms and 4 legs) you would still only get the two unarmed strikes from your arms even though you have the additional limbs?
Alright, this is probably going to sound like a really stupid question, but what prevents characters from making infinite unarmed strikes?Along with all of the other rules in place that are ambiguous, there is the fact that if the GM can make a DC-50 UCS[Use Common Sense] Check, he will realize that getting infinite attacks will slow down play, and go against logic and intent.
I was exaggerating when I said "infinite", but my real question was how to determine the amount of unarmed strikes you can make.
Alright, this is probably going to sound like a really stupid question, but what prevents characters from making infinite unarmed strikes? If I understand correctly, an unarmed strike can be made with any part of the body, albeit at a -4 with his primary "hand" and -8 with his off "hands". So what prevents a character from making an attack with his hand, and then his other hand, and then his head, his leg, other leg, so on and so forth?
whats preventing this? you only have a maximum number of attacks = to your total number of hands. even if you can make an attack with your foot or knee, or head, or elbow, that attack takes away one of your 2 attacks.
when your base attack bonus increases by 5 you can make 1 MORE attack with your "primary hand" per round, so 2 attacks with one weapon, 1 with any other weapon.
if you invest in improved two-weapon fighting, you can make another attack per round with the off-hand weapon. then you can get a third with greater two-weapon fighting.
IF (and as far as i know, the only playable race that this applies to is Kasatha) your character has more than two arms, each arm can make a single attack in a round at level 1 and no mater how many arms you have, when your BAB goes up you get 1 and only 1 more attack for every additional 5 points of BAB.
sufficiently explained?
I do have a follow-up question. If I have two claws attacks, can I still make two unarmed strikes and then follow them up with my claws as secondary natural attacks since natural weapons operate by a different set of rules?
yes, assuming you have not used the hand/hands associated to the claws in question for an armed attack.
Not going to lie, when I read "infinite unarmed strikes" I thought of Mortal Kombat-style Brutalities.
So if your DM allowed you to go with the Kasatha race (which has 4 arms and 2 legs) and you wielded four 1-H weapons or unarmed strikes, you could make 1 primary attack and 3 off-hand attacks at level 1, correct?
If your DM allowed you to be a Centaur (2 arms and 4 legs) you would still only get the two unarmed strikes from your arms even though you have the additional limbs?
I do have a follow-up question. If I have two claws attacks, can I still make two unarmed strikes and then follow them up with my claws as secondary natural attacks since natural weapons operate by a different set of rules?
Both of these posts are correct. On the second, it's as Shimesen noted. As long as you are using different limbs for the natural attacks and unarmed strikes (or manufactured attacks), then you can potentially make all four in a single round.