Star Wars Rebels


Television

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Sovereign Court

Dire Elf wrote:
I never got into Clone Wars. I couldn't take Anakin seriously as a good guy after the prequel movies. I don't know if Clone Wars really followed his descent toward the Dark Side, but if it had looked like it was going to explore that, I might have been more interested.

The series happens before episode 3


And yes, he was slowly headed down the dark side in Clone Wars.


Glacial speed.

Scarab Sages

SW:R episode 13 - Call to Action

Holy bantha tracks! Apparently what this show really needed was injection of Grand Moff Tarkin.


Shit just got real.

Silver Crusade

Overall I've been enjoying this series, especially with the fact that while it demonstrates our heroes are heroes, it also is mostly attributable to the fact they're fighting the kind of Imperials you'd expect to see on a backwater planet (as its portrayed) like Lothal.

I'd disagree on the ineffective saturday morning comments though, at least as involves Kailus and the Inquisitor. We've got essentially an SS officer and a Gestapo officer in those two, and both routinely hand the heroes their asses in 'fair fights' when they get encountered.

Tarkin coming in and killing off the comedy duo also doesn't bode well for our heroes.

I liked Ahsoka. I like Ezra considerably more though. He's an unreasonable teenager, but seems a lot more 'with it.' And generally the impression I get from him and the other members of Specter team are they feel very PC-party to me, which is always fun for an adventure series.

Grand Lodge

I'm intrigued by the theories that Ashoka is Fulcrum.

Scarab Sages

I'd rather Fulcrum was Ventress. That would be far more interesting.


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If Fulcrum is Ashoka, it just means another chance to kill off my favorite star wars character. Unless she gets frozen in carbonite and gets to be in a "after episode 6" story line. Then maybe Disney can have an alien for there Disney Princess line but with lightsabers;)

Grand Lodge

There was a site that took the Fulcrum recordings and adjusted them with a voice modulator and at one point the voice sounds a lot like Ashoka, I mean I know a lot can be done with audio manipulation but it is pretty neat.

Liberty's Edge

My guess is that Fulcrum is Bail Organa. I think Ashoka is sorta unlikely, where would she get a CR90 corvette?

Grand Lodge

it's been 15/16 years since Episode III, she left the Jedi somewhere before then, so there's been plenty of time for her to acquire connections.


Well she did loose her lightsabers before she left the order and it's not like those are easy to get new one. Speaking of that they never did explain were she got her second lightsaber or her different fighting style.


Dragon78 wrote:
Well she did loose her lightsabers before she left the order and it's not like those are easy to get new one. Speaking of that they never did explain were she got her second lightsaber or her different fighting style.

I remain unsure on that one- before the more recent stuff, the mythos implied that a jedi would simply build another lightsaber if something happened to the one they had before. Rare I'll buy, but not impossible to replace. Hell, if a farmboy from Tattooine can build one...


Dragon78 wrote:
If Fulcrum is Ashoka, it just means another chance to kill off my favorite star wars character. Unless she gets frozen in carbonite and gets to be in a "after episode 6" story line. Then maybe Disney can have an alien for there Disney Princess line but with lightsabers;)

Death is not the end, you know this.

I do have some trepidation that they would kill off Ahsoka, but even if she falls, death isn't the end.

BLUE GHOST BODY!!!


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Only a couple of Jedi have gotten the blue ghost body so I doubt she will get that. Maybe she has kids by now so even if she does die, one of them could become a Jedi.


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Well.

Shit just got real.

Grand Lodge

Grr haven't gotten to watch it, but someone on Google+ just had to put a big picture of the spoilers up without warning. If it had just been text I could have easily skipped it. Still can't wait to watch tonight.


it's pretty easy to spoil as it was primarily visual, which sucks. It could have been done better, with more of a build. Still a gorgeous episode.

Grand Lodge

Yeah, S2 is too far off now

Scarab Sages

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Agreed. A great episode all around.


Great, they brought her back so they can kill her off:(


Dragon78 wrote:
Great, they brought her back so they can kill her off:(

blue ghost body!


It is a huge universe, with lots of galaxies, so there is no reason to assume that any of the Jedi on this show are dead at the beginning of Episode IV. After all, the Rebels were fighting the Empire all over the place, not just in the specific locations used in the movies.

Scarab Sages

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It is also worth noting that Obi-Wan and Yoda were the only ones telling Luke he was the last Jedi - Mostly Obi-Wan.

And it's not like Old Ben never told a lie, is it?


I wish they used her older looking design from that one episode(of three) of clone wars with the three really powerful force users.

Also, shouldn't her hair tendril things be a lot longer now.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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I'm glad to read Snipps is back (gave up TV for lent)


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I am very happy now.


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I was enjoying the return of that particular character until the very end of the episode when Vader made his appearance.

It hit me that we're probably going to see a confrontation / showdown between the master and his former apprentice. And that's probably not going to end well...


With any luck she will come out the better in that confrontation. Remember supposedly Vader's motivation was to protect the ones he cares about... I think he cares about "snips".


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Aranna wrote:
With any luck she will come out the better in that confrontation. Remember supposedly Vader's motivation was to protect the ones he cares about... I think he cares about "snips".

True, but I'd think at this point he's had a few years under the corrupting influence of Palpatine and a few Jedi purge kills under his belt. I wasnt Ashoka's biggest fan when the show started but she really grew on me as they started to flesh her out as well as her relationships with the people around her. I was happy to see her but then realized that her relationship with with Anakin/Vader was probably going to come to a hear in the coming seasons.

Also? was anyone kind of sad to see the fate of the inquisitor? I kinda liked him as a primary antagonist.


ShinHakkaider wrote:
Aranna wrote:
With any luck she will come out the better in that confrontation. Remember supposedly Vader's motivation was to protect the ones he cares about... I think he cares about "snips".

True, but I'd think at this point he's had a few years under the corrupting influence of Palpatine and a few Jedi purge kills under his belt. I wasnt Ashoka's biggest fan when the show started but she really grew on me as they started to flesh her out as well as her relationships with the people around her. I was happy to see her but then realized that her relationship with with Anakin/Vader was probably going to come to a hear in the coming seasons.

Also? was anyone kind of sad to see the fate of the inquisitor? I kinda liked him as a primary antagonist.

If you do not see the death, then do not trust the enemy is dead. That is why there are rumors that Palpatine is still alive and in Ep VII. Sure, there was the big explosion, but you did not see him die.

As for Vader, he made an appearance in the slightly extended version of the pilot episode too.


Let me know when Ahsoka is brutally murdered by Vader. Then I'll happily watch this show.


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Harsh score from the Russian judge.


Ironically, though I enjoyed Clone Wars and Ahsoka's role in it, I also want to see Ahsoka brutally murdered (along with any force users) in this show.

Truly show Vader's power and show the despair and desperation the Rebellion was truly facing before Luke and Company came to the scene!

Then again, the show is probably too happy and go lucky for something like this...but one can hope.


...No, that wouldn't work very well. Not at ALL, mind, but not well.

I'm not saying that Vader should look like a fool or be easily outwitted or duped by the cast. However, he can't just cakewalk to victory until his son beats him because the rebellion was a popular movement after a while, and the Empire needed to rely upon fear to keep others in line, which was the idea behind the first Death Star. Moreover, in many ways by the time episode 4 rolls around, the Empire finally has the trump card it's badly needed in a functional planet-destroyer. People were realizing that the Emperor had no clothes(no pun intended), and that the empire was becoming a paper tiger- a true weapon of terror was needed to keep the populace in line.


Freehold DM wrote:

...No, that wouldn't work very well. Not at ALL, mind, but not well.

I'm not saying that Vader should look like a fool or be easily outwitted or duped by the cast. However, he can't just cakewalk to victory until his son beats him because the rebellion was a popular movement after a while, and the Empire needed to rely upon fear to keep others in line, which was the idea behind the first Death Star. Moreover, in many ways by the time episode 4 rolls around, the Empire finally has the trump card it's badly needed in a functional planet-destroyer. People were realizing that the Emperor had no clothes(no pun intended), and that the empire was becoming a paper tiger- a true weapon of terror was needed to keep the populace in line.

While that might be true in the EU, that's not necessarily the case in the actual canon universe. The EU is no more, remember. Based on only what's said in Episode 4, the Emperor has dissolved the Senate, the Imperial Governors have direct control over their sectors, and fear of death is what is intended to keep the populace in line.

That doesn't sound like a paper tiger. That sounds like a dictatorial, militaristic government that has finally swept away the final veneer of democracy and instituted full martial law and totalitarian control.

The people of the Republic, as shown in Ep 2 and 3, and in Clone Wars, openly embrace the coming of the Emperor's regime. They have been brainwashed and/or deceived into thinking that granting Palpatine all of these "emergency powers" that he will of course hand back once the war is over are good for him to have. Sure, they have to give up a few rights along the way, but they're safer for them, right?

(Yes, I know about the parallels between what goes down in CW and Ep1-3 and real world events within the last century, let's not go there.)

Then, at the crucial moment of the Clone Wars, the Jedi go rogue. The Republic-soon-to-be-Empire has to take them out, for the good of the people. And you can bet that the Empire is going to put a Stormtrooper squad on every street corner. For your safety. Anyone could be a Jedi in disguise. They look like normal people, after all.

And anyone could be a Jedi sympathizer, so we're going to authorize at-will searches. The forces of the Empire can break down any door, at any time, to root out dissidents - people who don't want to see the Republic... now The Empire... succeed. They don't care about the thousands, the hundreds of thousands, the millions of lives that were lost in the Clone Wars. They don't care about the massive loss of infrastructure and industry that were lost to Separatist and Jedi betrayal. They don't want to see The Empire thrive. They're trying to subvert the legitimately elected government.

We're The Empire. We're trying to rebuild. Trust the Emperor, he knows what's best. Don't ask questions. Don't make waves.

The Death Star is not intended to strike fear into the common person. It's not a weapon to be used against the general populace. The general populace of The Empire are either staunch supporters of everything that's happened ("The Jedi? They betrayed us! We're better without them! They sided with the Separatists! They tried to assassinate the Emperor!"), or they're to afraid to raise their voice for fear of being disappeared. The Death Star isn't for them.

What few planets in the Republic-Now-Empire that don't fall in line? They're who the Death Star is for. The planets who are independent? The Hutts, for instance? They're who the Death Star is for.

Do what The Emperor says, or we blow up your planet. Toe the line, do what we say, or we end your entire culture.

These are not the actions of a paper tiger government. These are the actions of a totalitarian regime that has just secured its position of absolute power. The Death Star isn't a trump card. It's the ultimate hammer with which to pound down any nail. (Well, maybe it is a trump card, but it's absolutely the final brick in the wall of the Emperor's power grab.)

On a different topic, while I am personally very heavily against the "Tons Of Secret Jedi Surviving All Through The Trilogies" concept (because frankly it breaks the entire point of the movies), I do think that if Ahsoka has to go out, she should go out swinging. She's too damn stubborn to just roll over.


I just want to point out that in Star Wars (1977) Tarkin was convinced that the Jedi were "all but extinct", but Obi Wan and Yoda were still around.

If those two got away and hid for years then it stands to reason that other Jedi got the message and laid low too. I mean obviously some wouldnt or couldnt but I personally like the idea of side stories of Jedi either giving up the life and doing other things or having to fight the Empire without exposing themselves for what they really are.


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ShinHakkaider wrote:

I just want to point out that in Star Wars (1977) Tarkin was convinced that the Jedi were "all but extinct", but Obi Wan and Yoda were still around.

If those two got away and hid for years then it stands to reason that other Jedi got the message and laid low too. I mean obviously some wouldnt or couldnt but I personally like the idea of side stories of Jedi either giving up the life and doing other things or having to fight the Empire without exposing themselves for what they really are.

"All but extinct" does not mean entirely extinct, I'll give you that.

But the fact of the matter is that the canon universe has been clearly and officially (Pre Disney, so this could change if they want it to) stated to have only two Jedi in it at the time of Ep 4-6: Yoda and Obi-Wan. With no Jedi having been seen for 20 years, and only two surviving, and literally an entire Empire against them, the order may as well have been extinct. Its fire, as Tarkin so eloquently put it, had gone out of the Galaxy.

Even if there were still Jedi out there, where were they? As soon as the first Death Star was destroyed, they'd have seen that the Rebellion had a chance. The Jedi Code would demand that they join the Rebellion and try to help. But they didn't. Because there weren't any.

Look, if it's a good story, it's a good story and I'll support it. But face facts: Unless the new canon-eers at Disney decide that the Secret But Entirely Useless Jedi Survived is a real thing, there just aren't any other than Ben and Yoda at the start of Ep 4. They get wiped out.

There's nothing wrong with that. It isn't a bad thing. It enables tons of stories about the fall of Anakin Skywalker, as he takes his rage and pain and anger and loss out on the people he once looked up to. It gives us the chance to get some "Fives, NO!" level heart-wrenchers in Rebels. It means we get to watch the story turn into what Star Wars was always about - the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker.

Personally I think that's pretty cool.


If those two were only jedi seen in 20 years then we couldn't have the rebel series at all since we have at least three so far that are not Obi-won or Yoda;)


I did say "at the start of Episode 4", but it's cool if you want to ignore that. ;)

I've never said I don't like the concept of Rebels. I think Kanan's a great character. But I'm going to be sorely disappointed if they don't take the hard ending on this one.


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jemstone wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:

I just want to point out that in Star Wars (1977) Tarkin was convinced that the Jedi were "all but extinct", but Obi Wan and Yoda were still around.

If those two got away and hid for years then it stands to reason that other Jedi got the message and laid low too. I mean obviously some wouldnt or couldnt but I personally like the idea of side stories of Jedi either giving up the life and doing other things or having to fight the Empire without exposing themselves for what they really are.

"All but extinct" does not mean entirely extinct, I'll give you that.

But the fact of the matter is that the canon universe has been clearly and officially (Pre Disney, so this could change if they want it to) stated to have only two Jedi in it at the time of Ep 4-6: Yoda and Obi-Wan. With no Jedi having been seen for 20 years, and only two surviving, and literally an entire Empire against them, the order may as well have been extinct. Its fire, as Tarkin so eloquently put it, had gone out of the Galaxy.

Even if there were still Jedi out there, where were they? As soon as the first Death Star was destroyed, they'd have seen that the Rebellion had a chance. The Jedi Code would demand that they join the Rebellion and try to help. But they didn't. Because there weren't any.

Look, if it's a good story, it's a good story and I'll support it. But face facts: Unless the new canon-eers at Disney decide that the Secret But Entirely Useless Jedi Survived is a real thing, there just aren't any other than Ben and Yoda at the start of Ep 4. They get wiped out.

There's nothing wrong with that. It isn't a bad thing. It enables tons of stories about the fall of Anakin Skywalker, as he takes his rage and pain and anger and loss out on the people he once looked up to. It gives us the chance to get some "Fives, NO!" level heart-wrenchers in Rebels. It means we get to watch the story turn into what Star Wars was always about - the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker....

secret but useless? No. Again, the rebellion wasn't three people cowering in fear until Luke came along, it was a popular movement that was doing real damage in the war for hearts and minds if not on the battlefield. If you need to increase heavy handedness to the point that you dissolve the senate and people are still resisting you, its a sign that your plan isnt working.

re: clone wars; Fives is already long gone. I miss him and waxer and tup especially, but this is a new series with a new cast and is a new situation. Attempting to draw Clone wars parallels is only going to frustrate.


I'm not suggesting parallels so much as I'm saying "that level of intensity was good, do more like that."

Fives was a tragic and long-term story line. There aren't enough of those in mainstream animation. Rebels is a prime market for exactly those kind of story lines. That's what I'm after. That's what I want.

Stories don't need to have a happy ending to be effective. And speaking as a Star Wars fanboy since I saw the film in theaters at the age of five (in 1977, no less), I'm okay with Rebels not ending happily. I mean, I'm sure it will, but I'd be okay if it didn't.


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I with Jemstone on this one. They need to take out all the Jedi, and Vader needs to show WHY he's so feared. He's the Dark Lord of the Sith for goodness sake...the most feared Villain in the entire galaxy. Putting him on par with Yosemite Sam isn't exactly going to inspire the masses to fear him.

I think they set the time of how long Rebels is supposed to be didn't they? Four seasons. I could reasonably see that they start off light in season one and slowly get darker as the series progresses until Season four where everyone but a main character or two dies. I predicted from Day one that Kanan would die, I think Ahsoka needs to die as well (now that they've brought her into the series) eventually. Perhaps even kill Kanan off next season, have Ahsoka take up his spot (she's more advanced than he is anyways), and then die a brutal, horrible, and heroic death at the end of season three, with the main character, Ezra dying in that last episode.

My initial thoughts were that this will be the bunch that gets the Death Star Plans for episode 4, but most of them will die in the process...leading directly into the trilogy series itself.

Of course, a lot can change in the meantime, but that was my initial impressions.


It is interesting what they did on the show when it comes to Tarkin and what he believes he knows about the Jedi. One one of the episodes he states that there are no more Jedi at all, then Kanan proves him wrong. I think they wrote it that way to fit in with his dialogue from the movie, where, as someone else posted, he said that the Jedi were all but extinct. So he went from thinking they were gone for good to all but extinct, instead. It feels like they are setting it up with the show for at least one of them to survive, with Tarkin knowing he or she is still out there somewhere in hiding. Depending on exactly when this takes place between III and IV, Ezra could be close to the same age as Luke, perhaps making him a character in VII?


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Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
It is interesting what they did on the show when it comes to Tarkin and what he believes he knows about the Jedi. One one of the episodes he states that there are no more Jedi at all, then Kanan proves him wrong. I think they wrote it that way to fit in with his dialogue from the movie, where, as someone else posted, he said that the Jedi were all but extinct. So he went from thinking they were gone for good to all but extinct, instead. It feels like they are setting it up with the show for at least one of them to survive, with Tarkin knowing he or she is still out there somewhere in hiding. Depending on exactly when this takes place between III and IV, Ezra could be close to the same age as Luke, perhaps making him a character in VII?

It's been a long time since I've watched the original trilogy... but most of it is burned into my memory... Wasn't the line something like 'The Jedi are all but extinct...(looks at Vader) You are all that remains of that ancient religion.)

Soooo as long as Vader is in the room then the Jedi still exist (in a fashion)

Also, another loophole, What makes someone 'a jedi'? Do Padawans count? I got the impression that Kanan was still a padawan when the order was given and he ran away. He doesn't seem to be the 'typical' stoic Jedi... he still fights fears and emotions and has admitted that he's not prepared to be a master.

Being 'strong in the Force' isn't really enough to consider yourself a jedi... you need the formal training, and if all the experienced ones besides Ben and Yoda were killed... then 'no jedis left' may still be accurate.

I liked the old D6 star wars game where you could have 'failed Jedi' and 'force sensitive' characters... but during the IV-V period there weren't any full fledged Jedi left. You had to learn bit by bit from holocrons and other failed jedi in hiding...


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Fascinating theory, none of the three "Jedi" on the show ever advanced past Padawan certainly not Ahsoka who left the order while still a Padawan herself or Ezra who is brand new to this. And while they don't say it straight out Kanan is implied to have never made it that far either.


If Ahsoka does die then I would wouldn't mind if they killed all the other characters since none of them existed in movies as well.


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Thinking on Vader and his motivation, remember when he fought Luke he never tried to kill him only to recruit him. He cared about Luke and he cares about Ahsoka, if they don't do another massive character violation with him then he should try to recruit Ahsoka.


Well said aranna and especially phantom. Jedi is a title, and none of these characters graduated, per se. While I have no problem with characters dying, I don't think the entire series should be them simply expiring on vaders lightsaber while he yawns (can Vader yawn? Hmm....) either - thr rebellion has serious successes and wasn't posed to be wiped out utterly until hoth.

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