Unlimited bless water!

[steve steve 983]

Me and a friend wanted to make a decanter of endless holy water and I am not the greatest at the item makeing rules and chart and what not.

We were wondering if some one could help us with this?

[kikidmonkey]

+2000 for Continuous Bless Water
+2500 for components for Bless Water

there may be other costs, I dont usually make items

That being said, 13500 is WAAAAAAAAAAY too cheap for that. If it could be done that cheaply, there wouldn't be any undead or evil outsiders anymore.

[Skerek]

Looking at the mount of water produced by a decanter of endless water (max 30 gallons per round) and the bless water only works on 1 pint of water per minute I would suggest that you would need amp things up a fair bit.
2000+2500 for continuous holy water that does 1 pint of water a minute.
8*(2000+2500) now we're up to 1 gallon a minute
8*30*(2000+2500) 30 gallons a minute, too bad the decanter of endless water still pumps it out 10 times faster.
8*30*10(2000gp+2500gp) there we go, blessing the same amount of water as the decanter can push out.
So that's 9000gp+(8*30*10(2000gp+2500gp))= 10,809,000, seems reasonable for being able to create 30 gallons of holy water a round.

[chaoseffect]

I'd say that 13,500 isn't unreasonable if you put some limits on it, such as a blast from it counts as the enemy being hit by one dose of Holy Water and the water loses potency after a short duration.

[Skerek]

chaoseffect wrote:

I'd say that 13,500 isn't unreasonable if you put some limits on it, such as a blast from it counts as the enemy being hit by one dose of Holy Water and the water loses potency after a short duration.

Kinda like a Holy water gun? throw a pint of holy water up to 10ft away, as this isn't in a flask you can throw it like normal holy water.

It just occurred to me, 10M gp version I wrote up would be doing a ridiculous amount of damage if 1 pint can do 2d4 damage would 30 gallons then do 480d4 damage (average 1200)... I guess that would be rather effective. 10M gp item to never have to worry about evil outsiders or undead.

Or maybe treat it as being submerged in holy water which I believe would be 20D6, a bit more reasonable.

[Flaming Duck]

Go GO Holy Water Hose!
<.< I want it.

[HaraldKlak]

Skerek wrote:

Or maybe treat it as being submerged in holy water which I believe would be 20D6, a bit more reasonable.

Yeah, submerged in holy water seems more reasonable.

That would be 20d4 for holy water, since the damage progression is X -> 10*X. Acid is 1d6, submersion 10d6. Lava 2d6, submersion 20d6.

[Harrison]

Skerek wrote:

10,809,000 (GP)

At that point, you might as well make the thing a major artifact.

[Imbicatus]

It would be more powerful than most artifacts, too.

[kikidmonkey]

yeah, just imagine a whole host of angels making these and then going to the abyss to deal with those rotten demons once and for all!

"That's right boys, we're going to fill the whole damned place up!"

[Weirdo]

I think it's better to price this in terms of damage potential rather than simply attempt to scale up Bless Water. The closest spell I can find is Flame Strike, cast at 15th level at-will.

Submersion damage of 20d4 has a similar damage spread to 15d6 (min 20/15, avg 50/5.25, max 80/90).

Flame Strike advantages: affects wider range of targets, 10ft-radius area effect while the Geyser is a single-target (though possibly with splash damage).

Geyser advantages: no save or SR, friendly fire unlikely, can store water in containers to distribute or create other effects such as traps given a bit of set-up time.

Flame Strike 15th level at will costs 5*15*2000gp = 150,000gp. I think this is fair as it's roughly equivalent to a +9 weapon, which is a big investment to make for an item that won't be useful in most fights (unless you're in a campaign really heavy in undead or fiends, in which case I would rethink the item entirely). I would add a stipulation that created holy water disappears after 24 hours (as the mundane water in create water does), preventing massive stockpiling.

Calling it a minor artifact would certainly be appropriate.

[kinevon]

Skerek wrote:

Looking at the mount of water produced by a decanter of endless water (max 30 gallons per round) and the bless water only works on 1 pint of water per minute I would suggest that you would need amp things up a fair bit.

2000+2500 for continuous holy water that does 1 pint of water a minute.
8*(2000+2500) now we're up to 1 gallon a minute
8*30*(2000+2500) 30 gallons a minute, too bad the decanter of endless water still pumps it out 10 times faster.
8*30*10(2000gp+2500gp) there we go, blessing the same amount of water as the decanter can push out.
So that's 9000gp+(8*30*10(2000gp+2500gp))= 10,809,000, seems reasonable for being able to create 30 gallons of holy water a round.

So, can we take it to the Worldwound and end the Year of the Demon a little early?

[Weirdo]

kinevon wrote:

So, can we take it to the Worldwound and end the Year of the Demon a little early?

And this is why it's probably artifact-level.

[a black bear]

Just get the 13500GP-decanter, and fill a bag of holding with it. You can fit 14961 pints of blessed water in there, which takes exactly 24 hours to fill.

If you turn the bag inside out you either get holy rain (if the bag is emptied "in parallel") or a hose of holy water (if it is emptied "item by item").

29922d4 damage per bag :)

Of course, a hose would still do 2d4 damage per round, so you would need more bags... With 10,809,000 GP at hand, we would be close to having 1081 bags, so after about three years filling the bags, we would be ready for battle :D

The good stuff happens if the inside-out bag outputs multiple gallons of holy water per round.

[Andrea1]

How about using it to push a boat? What is the water pressure and how many would be needed to push a rowboat?

[Drachasor]

Andrea1 wrote:

How about using it to push a boat? What is the water pressure and how many would be needed to push a rowboat?

The math here isn't too bad to get a rough estimate. It shoots out 30 gallons a round. A gallon of water is about 8.33lbs. So that's a total of ~250lbs.

If we figure "this is magic" so it is always 20 feet, it is probably best to estimate this using conservation of momentum. In which case you have the displacement roughly being Object_Weight / 250 * 20ft per round. We're ignoring friction on both ends though. This is not very fast.

This could change a bit depending on one interprets the fact the spray goes "20 feet". The above works for a rough estimate though. But you could make some more assumptions and calculate the velocity of the exiting water. based on that.

If you wanted to go faster you'd need to do something like use a Wall of Fire and shoot out high-pressure water...but the rules don't cover such things.

Edit: Hmm, actually. It says the stream is 1 foot wide. So if we assume it is a tube of water. That's (.5ft)^2*pi * x ft = 30gal*7.48ft^3/gallon. Or x ~= 285.71ft That's many feet of water goes out each round. So that's a velocity of 47.6 ft/sec. I'll need to get out pen and paper to do some more calculations based on that.

Note all this comes with the implicit assumption that all momentum is transferred to whatever holds the decanter, which is probably NOT a safe assumption.

[a black bear]

We need an "Ultimate Arcane Physics".

[Taku Ooka Nin]

chaoseffect wrote:

I'd say that 13,500 isn't unreasonable if you put some limits on it, such as a blast from it counts as the enemy being hit by one dose of Holy Water and the water loses potency after a short duration.

You could make it fire multiple times per round, and mount it on something. The effect would look like this

Swat Kats: the past master's skeletons VS helicopter.

[Drachasor]

Ok, did some more figuring. If we assume conservation of momentum (again, unclear if it is valid, but conservation of energy is clearly NOT valid so we can't assume that), then we have

M * V(t) = m(t) * v
where
M = mass of object decanter attached to
V(t) = velocity of object
m = total mass of expelled water (changes over time)
v = velocity of expelled water.

m(t) = 30t gal/sec = 41.7t lb/sec (t being seconds of course)
v = 47.6 ft/sec (as shown in my previous post)

That gives V(t) = 1985t/M ft/sec
or acceleration A(t) = 1985/M ft/sec
and distance D(t) = 992.5t^2/M

So if you have a 1000lb boat, then after 6 seconds, you've gone roughly 36 ft.

After 12 seconds: 143ft
After 18 seconds: 322ft
After 24 seconds: 572ft.

But this is completely ignoring drag. I'm going to cheat a little here. We know the Foot-Pounds per second is 1985 from above (that's how much force is being applied per second). That's about 3.61 horsepower.

From what I gather, a good propeller is about 70% efficient (or so). Since we're measuring direct thrust here, we shouldn't have that concern, so our effective horsepower should be more like 5hp. From what I can gather from the internets, this would be 5-15 mile per hour, depending on the size of the boat (up to maybe 16 feet long). More Decanters would not increase this speed additively. In fact, you might see little speed increase since the faster you go the more drag you'll get (but it is complicated).

Anyhow, that's my rough estimate. It would work better in space. But then again, if you are going to travel between planets, two plane shifts is the way to do it.