|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ok my paizo people, I play in city based home campaign. We left off at a cliffhanger that went like this: all the characters are in different parts of the city during downtime (aka shopping etc) A giant red summoning circle appears overhead in the sky and sends down 12 columns of light one of which lands near each of us. Out of each light appears a barbed devil and four erinyes.
We have just reach level eight after a brutal dungeon crawl in some a noble family that were secretly raksashas. I am playing a Sable Company ranger with the hippogriff rider archetype. The place I am in is Bridgefront in Korvosa, think ultra population dense slums. This is a neighborhood I have been trying to protect the entire campaign. The GM and I believe it would metagaming to flee with out trying to fight.
I in no way believe I can win this fight because of meta knowledge as a player of the monsters. My character however flubbed his Knowledge: Planes. How do I survive this? I am a switch hitting ranger, max stealth +23, perception +21, and ride auto a 20. I have a +14(+11) to hit in melee and power attack, I have +14(11) to hit with my bow rapid shot, manyshot, deadly aim. Urban is my favored terrain. I do not have a good aligned weapon.
Let's see. Find cover to snipe behind. Once you take a couple of potshots and see that it's not very effective, run away.
You can outfly the Erinyes. I believe the most intelligent thing to do as this is obviously a huge catastrophe is to regroup with your allies.
You can outfly the Erinyes. I believe the most intelligent thing to do as this is obviously a huge catastrophe is to regroup with your allies.
Nope. Furies have a fly 50 ft. (good) while the hippogriff has fly 50 ft. (average). They will out maneuver him. I do agree with the hooking up with allies, however. If each has the same number of enemies, though, it's either a bargain moment, you get captured and taken somewhere else as plot, or... you all die heroically, gain the celestial template, and come back for revenge?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It is very obvious that you aren't going to win this, and trying to run seems to be quite futile; Erinyes have great lockdown, given their rope-like abilities that can entangle and essentially pin down enemies of the Devils, whereas the Hamatulas will have you forever boned if they manage to get a hold of you. But you're a ranger who can use ranged attacks fairly well for his level. This means that your character can safely test their defenses, realize that their durability is too much for him, and take off to find your party members (as Ipslore plainly suggested).
At the same time, it's not like a character can't size up an enemy on-the-spot and come to the conclusion that "This guy is way too tough for me, there's no way I can win against him in any fight."
However, Devils, although shifty characters, are still bound by rules and contracts, and they generally don't invade giant towns like this unless the Big Bads told them to. They're subtle creatures that, while they seek the eternal damnation of all mortals, won't accomplish it through all-out war means, unless they are forced to.
So if it wasn't obvious enough, these Devils are there for something really huge (otherwise they wouldn't send this many powerful demons), and while you did something pretty amazing (taking down a noble family of Rakshasas is a notable accomplishment, one that is sure to get the outsiders' attention), you won't know why they're really there until you ask them what they want.
Are they there to kill the ones who slaughtered what could be their boss' family friends? Possibly. (It was a noble family of Rakshasas, after all.) For all we know, the boss decided the town you're staying in needs to be condemned to the Hell that he owns in comprise, all the while telling his minions "If you find the ones who killed X Y and Z, rough them up, but don't leave them buried; bring them back to me alive. I would prefer to condemn them with my own hands."
|
|
We are all level 8. An Erinyes is CR8 and Barbed Devil is CR 11. It is in fact insanely tough. I know if ran immediately I could likely get away, but my character doesn't know the relative power levels. Also I will probably try the sniping style just because it is in my wheelhouse, but the respective bonuses don't put that in my favor. The four lesser devils have +16 to their perceptions. In my mind I take shot, at least half see me and open up with their bows in a full attack, and the other start the next round. At least half will probably beat my initiative too.
My hippogriff at this level has a fly speed 110 good at this level (it has the strong wing feat)
Hmm... I am glad to be wrong then. One guy against five monsters... Yeah. What Ipslor and Darksol said. Probe their defenses at range. Realize and rationalize. Go get help.
Let's do some math to put this in perspective:
This sort of encounter is worth about 32,000 XP, which puts it right between a CR 13 and CR 14. Defeating this encounter on your own would bump you from level 8 to level 9 almost instantly.
An encounter with a total CR 3 higher then the Average Party Level is considered "Epic", and that's if you bring your whole party along. A well optimized or prepared group can handle an "Epic" encounter pretty well (in my experience) and can sometimes tackle challenges that are beyond that. However, a CR 14 would be a hellish nightmare encounter for most groups unless they are optimized to fight Devils already or have prepared to do so.
In short, this battle is suicidal for you alone and would be very difficult to handle with your entire party. I notice that you mention there were twelve columns of light, one for each of your party members. Do you have a twelve-man party? Because if that's the case your group could probably handle a CR 14 encounter OK.
However, since each ray of light has the same number of monsters in it that means there are a total of 48 erinyes and 12 barbed devils. That's a total of 384,000 xp, or between a CR 20 and 21 encounter. I'd say it's pretty much unwinnable at level 8.
So I suspect that your GM has sent these critters as part of some plot point or another. Either to negotiate with the PCs, capture them, kill them climactically, etc.
Your character could possibly make a Sense Motive check to roughly gauge the CR of the encounter. It's your character asking himself "Can I take these guys?" The answer is probably not.
|
Even regrouping with your party honestly won't save you from an encounter of this magnitude. If it isn't a railroading attempt, the entire group needs to get the hell out of Dodge ASAP. ... Although the group I play Carrion Crown with has been taking on CR 14 encounters since level 8. So it can be done, but this isn't one of those times where you want to try. There'll be too much magic flying around.
Snipe, run, snipe some more, run some more (but not too far), all with the intent of leading them away from the area you are protecting. Don't fully break contact until you've led them away from the innocent bystanders.
By then you'll have evidence of how tough they are, to justify breaking contact entirely and finding your allies.
|
|
So, yeah. Something is going on. That's a CR13-14 fight, which means if your whole party (of 4) were to fight, it would be APL+7-8.
Definitely an impossible fight. Even if your character failed his knowledge check (or perhaps because he did) it is time to run. Or, if he truly thinks this way, stand, fight and die.
Some of your reaction will be meta gaming. Do you trust your GM? Would he throw so etching this impossible at you and expect you to fight?
On the other hand, the issue will likely be moot when the Erinyes see you. Just voluntarily fail your fear save, and flee! Then your character can say it was not his fault. Your entire party cannot hope to win this encounter, though.
|
|
Snipe, run, snipe some more, run some more (but not too far), all with the intent of leading them away from the area you are protecting. Don't fully break contact until you've led them away from the innocent bystanders.
By then you'll have evidence of how tough they are, to justify breaking contact entirely and finding your allies.
I dunno about you, but I think I'd qualify their ability to completely shrug off everything you throw at them a pretty good reason to high tail it immediately after the first volley. If your character is neutral or evil I'd suggest you cut your losses and run. If good, you're all but obligated to try and lure them away as the above poster has said.
Not everything needs to be a drag out brawl fight, in this case I'd look at a few things.
A: are they wrecking havoc, This is obviously a huge issue.
B: Chance of winning: you can't win this fight, but depending on the objective, you can make them lose.
If the issue is A, where they are slaughtering, you're going to need to find a way to distract them from the peasants while they have time to evac. The goal here is to do your best not to engage while doing what you can to distract/slow down the target.
If they are not just here for wholesale slaughter, then they have an objective. Perhaps you could tail them and be there at the critical moment to interrupt the objective.
We also don't know if these five are going to travel as a pack, or if they are going to split up.
Lots of interesting roleplaying and solutions rather than stab them in the face here.
Good luck.
Running away from devils with Greater Teleport is only slowing the inevitable.
Seriously, a barbed devil + four erinyes for each of the dozen columns of red light?! I wouldn't be surprised if the intent here is not to kill the PCs but to either capture them or have them witness some nasty revenge upon the city where the PCs are powerless to stop them.
So... pretend to make a valiant effort, but don't waste your resources.
The fact that the fights are basically impossible for your PCs and the erinyes pretty much have LASSOS and a big grapple beast to pin you implies that this will be an attempt by the devils to capture you. Perhaps they'll spirit you away to some other adventure for a while. If that's the case then the GM might prefer it if you pretend you don't know this and put up at least token resistance.
If the GM really expects you to take on this encounter I guess Duiker's advice is as good as any though I'd think devils with SR and Greater Teleport would find most of that stuff pretty laughable. I guess another option would be to have your PCs all just fight to the death and see what the GM does then. Perhaps there's some church which will raise you, perhaps you'll all start new PCs who seek out the villain, or perhaps somebody will start a new game.
In any event, it sounds like a mysterious and annoying situation.
|
If these are your people, rally a cry for them to get help. Devils pouring into a major city? Surely every church and hero would respond. Lead the devils on as merry a chase as you can manage, using angles of buildings to deter the enemy from taking a ranged shot at you. I have a suspicion this is a railroad plot to capture you, but we'll see...
Also, one more thing just in case: Try to disbelieve the illusion. It's more likely that you're just meant to run away, but there's a chance that it's an elaborate illusion.
We are all level 8. An Erinyes is CR8 and Barbed Devil is CR 11. It is in fact insanely tough. I know if ran immediately I could likely get away, but my character doesn't know the relative power levels. Also I will probably try the sniping style just because it is in my wheelhouse, but the respective bonuses don't put that in my favor. The four lesser devils have +16 to their perceptions. In my mind I take shot, at least half see me and open up with their bows in a full attack, and the other start the next round. At least half will probably beat my initiative too.
Don't forget distance penalties to perception. Even if you take a -20 from trying to snipe, those distance penalties will add up. Try firing from outside a range increment or two, since the enemy being flatfooted will counteract the range increment penalty. Lets say you attack from your third increment, you can get a +33 to stealth. From your second? +22. This is just off distance. If you have some good cover its even better!
What other heroes does the City have? Is there a wizard School? A round table with knigths? Or pehaps a pope? I guess, with out knowing of cause that this is the time to look for friends. But if the next game session is gonna be with everybody i expect that some kind of BBGG is gonna show up and either empower you guys or beat team devil for you.
My suggestion to your situation is to try to help the folks that live in the slums. And if the best way to do that is attacking the Devils, to buy time for folks to escape, then so be it. Be the hero you are and let the game decide if you live or die.
If you go down? Then level 8 is a great place to reroll as a wizard;)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I appreciate the answers from everyone, and I already suspected it was more plot element than combat encounter.
Duiker, I understand your intentions but the reason I presumed there will be an initially hostile encounter is because the GM indicated he expected such to happen. We have spent a lot of time rallying the citizenry to be helpful to each other in times of crisis. However if this situation happens in rounds of combat I want advice about what toto do. If I can stealthily gather intelligence because they do not intend to do immediate violence I will develop a guerrilla resistance movement. I however can't initiate any of the strategies you discuss immediately. The sewers in korvosa are grated and locked heavily because of Otyugh they use, which also makes them dubious evacuation routes even if forced open. A football field sized contraption of iron isn't on hand and coordinate a siege weapon sized net isn't going to happen spontaneously in the campaigns that my group runs. Collapsing a building isn't an option because they are filled with thousands of people in this area and an evacuation will take time. The percentage of spell casters in korvosa is fairly large but the Acadamae has had its doors shut for three weeks (and could very well be responsible for this) The other large group of mages Thaumenexus (I think) is already coordinating with a depleted watch because of our efforts. The resources of the city I would imagine will be taxed dealing with the other 7 CR 14 encounters. I appreciate the sentiment but we are fairly saavy at dealing with situation using diplomatic and dynamic solutions.
I will roll with situation and had already planned to come at overwhelming force with an oblique or cerebral solution, but at the end of the day my ranger is a big d@mn hero to the people of the neighborhood where no one else gives a d@mn and if they start killing innocents in that area he will give it a go combat even if he dies. I have a limitless supply of characters in my head luckily. I was looking for advice if the worst happens and have gotten some pretty solid ideas that for the most part reinforce my own assessment.
I will let people know how it shakes out.
Looking forward to the sequel:)
A giant red summoning circle appears overhead in the sky and sends down 12 columns of light one of which lands near each of us.
This sounds like a huge catastrophe and anyone in their right mind would flee at first. Like scouting party of demonic invasion bad.
One does not charge a tornado, you take measures to avoid it. If your Ranger is of a tactical mind, he'd try to regroup first than die a futile death trying to protect a few citizens rather than figuring out the big picture at work here.
|
|
A giant red summoning circle appears overhead in the sky and sends down 12 columns of light one of which lands near each of us.This sounds like a huge catastrophe and anyone in their right mind would flee at first. Like scouting party of demonic invasion bad.
One does not charge a tornado, you take measures to avoid it. If your Ranger is of a tactical mind, he'd try to regroup first than die a futile death trying to protect a few citizens rather than figuring out the big picture at work here.
An event of that magnitude does seem to imply a good chance that an extremely high level caster is working against you. If not that then congratulations, that city has somehow enraged Asmodeus himself.
Also, one more thing just in case: Try to disbelieve the illusion. It's more likely that you're just meant to run away, but there's a chance that it's an elaborate illusion.
This. OR consider that many GMs know that players have studied the monsters and so they switch stats and appearances around to keep you off balance. They may not actually be what you think they are. And since you failed your knowledge check you can only find out by engaging them.
|
|
Perhaps you could attempt to find out why they're coming, and if successful, try to appease them as best you can. It may avert their wrath.. Devils are extremely lawful creatures; it is their very nature. They've got to have a good reason for doing this, be it a contract, collecting a debt or simply having been summoned by someone.
I think you might need to
The Doctor says it best:
Re: running away, this is why chase decks were invented--instead of flying directly away in open air, try to lose them in the streets and alleys. Gives you a chance to get away through crafty use of the environment. You'd need a custom one for flying through a city, though, so your GM would need to do a little work first. Alternately, he could adjust the regular city chase on the fly (no pun intended), replacing Climb checks with Fly, and so on.
This assumes you survive your initial failed assault, of course. Erinyes are nasty business.
Turn your withdrawal into a running battle and try to link up with the others. Stay at range as long as possible.
It is not metagaming to get the devils to believe you are the threat by engaging them at range and then you can justify withdrawing to the DM as getting the devils out of that particular area by pursuing you so as to protect the innocent.
Keep the fight moving and join with the other party members if you can. While flying, weave around buildings and other obstacles to keep the line of sight/line of effect to you as problematic for the devils as possible.