Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
RainyDayNinja RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 |
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
Kezzie Redlioness |
The srd site has an entry for tiny dogs using fox stats, but no dog familiars outside 3rd party stuff.
I don't have/use any third-party stuff anyway. I was just trying to figure out how/if there was a way to do this. But, thank you for trying.
I wish the Animal Archive had something to address this. Maybe they could do an Animal Archive 2? I just think it's silly that you can have all these tiny/small, exotic and mildly domestic animals (i.e. Goats, pigs, cats, rats,foxes, etc.) as familiars and not have similar options for a dog for the same uses.
I mean, sure, thematically speaking, many of the creatures you can choose as a familiar are kind of obvious for spellcasters like witches and wizards, but when you can have things like a platypus or armadillo but not a cairn terrier or dachshund it feels a little absurd. Doesn't it?
Granted, some small dog breeds are completely for prized pet status only but others are just the smaller end of hunting and working dog.
Heck, Corgis were bred and used to help with cooking and most terriers were used to hunt and kill small game or take out rodent infestations when cats were not available/favorable due to superstitious and religious fervor all but wiped out cat populations in some places.
I just think that as far as intelligent, versatile animals go, small and tiny dogs should be available as familiars and put into a format that is acceptable to PFS standards!
(Sorry, this turned into a rant.)
Auke Teeninga Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic |
But, back to my original question.
Does anyone have any idea besides what has been suggested so far?
What about a donkey rat or a dire rat?
link.Baron Ulfhamr |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Baron Ulfhamr wrote:The srd site has an entry for tiny dogs using fox stats, but no dog familiars outside 3rd party stuff.I don't have/use any third-party stuff anyway. I was just trying to figure out how/if there was a way to do this. But, thank you for trying.
...
I just think that as far as intelligent, versatile animals go, small and tiny dogs should be available as familiars and put into a format that is acceptable to PFS standards!
(Sorry, this turned into a rant.)
No no, you misread me. There are no dog familiars per se, but there are fox familiars, also this:
Lap Dog: These tiny dogs are commonly kept as pets. They cannot be combat trained, but can serve as noisy-but-skittish watch creatures. Lap dogs have the same statistics as foxes.
This already seems possible by the RAW w/o 3rd party. Foxes can be familiars, and lap dogs are (essentially) foxes, ergo lap dogs can be familiars (so long as you keep fox stats).
Kezzie Redlioness |
No no, you misread me. There are no dog familiars per se, but there are fox familiars, also this:
Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Lap Dog: These tiny dogs are commonly kept as pets. They cannot be combat trained, but can serve as noisy-but-skittish watch creatures. Lap dogs have the same statistics as foxes.
This already seems possible by the RAW w/o 3rd party. Foxes can be familiars, and lap dogs are (essentially) foxes, ergo lap dogs can be familiars (so long as you keep fox stats).
Ah, I see what you're saying. Sorry, and thank you. I just keep hearing horror stories about GMs who will basically rip you a new toot-hole for re-skinning in any way shape or form. That's mostly what I'm worried about.
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Kezzie, I would hope that the horror stories which you're hearing are exaggerations, that there are no PFS GMs who "rip" on players for anything short of immediately-dangerous behavior. If there are, I would hope that coordinators or venture officers would intervene and curtail that kind of antagonistic interaction.
(Which is not to say that every GM allows everything. But rather, that table judges ought to be polite, explain the rules, and offer work-arounds in a spirit of helping people have fun.)
Kezzie Redlioness |
Really Nores? Really?
Not all small breed dogs are as annoying or useless as people say they are. A lot of times, like with ANY trained/trainable animal does, it has a lot to do with how the owners and/or breeders treat the individual animal from birth to death. And many of those are simply smaller versions of the larger hunting and working dogs. Some of the behaviors that are problematic for owners that don't UNDERSTAND the breed's history and traits are just apart of the breeds original purpose.
(Like hunting, aiding in common tasks, etc.)
You may as well complain that cars are not oxen-drawn wagons with rusty nails in the seat.
I'm not asking for an in-game combat buddy/cannon fodder like some people use their animals for. I am looking for an aesthetically-pleasing, intelligent companion-breed dog for my witch's spellbook/research assistant and I want to do so in a way that doesn't always scream "HEY, WITCH OVER HERE!" and is less conspicuous in social situations with high powered NPCs.
MrSin |
Kezzie, I would hope that the horror stories which you're hearing are exaggerations, that there are no PFS GMs who "rip" on players for anything short of immediately-dangerous behavior. If there are, I would hope that coordinators or venture officers would intervene and curtail that kind of antagonistic interaction.
(Which is not to say that every GM allows everything. But rather, that table judges ought to be polite, explain the rules, and offer work-arounds in a spirit of helping people have fun.)
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
For those of you newer to the campaign, MrSin linked to a long thread I started two years ago. Some folks came to my table on Sunday morning at GenCon with something that the campaign didn't allow, and I tried to find common ground with them. The situation didn't work as well as either of us hoped, and they left the table under as good a terms as we could manage.
MrSin, I'll hold that up as an example of a GM attempting to be polite, to explain the rules, and offer work-arounds in a spirit of helping people have fun. If that's what qualifies as a "horror story" then we're in pretty good shape.
MrSin |
MrSin, I'll hold that up as an example of a GM attempting to be polite, to explain the rules, and offer work-arounds in a spirit of helping people have fun. If that's what qualifies as a "horror story" then we're in pretty good shape.
Well... That comes off as a little arrogant to me personally. The point was that different people have different perceptions on things. What you consider polite and well handled I consider a disaster and lacking empathy.
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
Let's see if I understand the last couple of posts correctly.
Kezzie: I've heard that some people are mean.
Me I hope not.
MrSin They are, and you're chief among them.
Me I think you're mistaken. I tried to resolve an issue with respect.
MrSin Says you. You're arrogant. You caused a disaster. You lack empathy.
I don't understand how this turned into a personal attack, chum. Please stop.
May I suggest that only one of us was at that table? You have no idea what was, or was not, a disaster. (Certainly, the four guys who stayed at the table and I had a great time.) And Kevin, the gentleman of the couple, has explained his position.
Saint Caleth |
Chris Mortika wrote:They exist.Kezzie, I would hope that the horror stories which you're hearing are exaggerations, that there are no PFS GMs who "rip" on players for anything short of immediately-dangerous behavior. If there are, I would hope that coordinators or venture officers would intervene and curtail that kind of antagonistic interaction.
(Which is not to say that every GM allows everything. But rather, that table judges ought to be polite, explain the rules, and offer work-arounds in a spirit of helping people have fun.)
That is a terrible example. Completely aside from Chris Mortika having a vested interest in defending his own actions that incident involved literally the only scenario where the difference between a dog and a pig could have an actual concrete effect on the outcome.
More tellingly, If I remember that thread Mike mentioned that he had allowed the exact same reskin at one of his tables when the change in flavor did not have a bearing on the mechanics of the scenario. Lets take home the lesson from the campaign leadership and not get bent out of shape over a this kind of fluff substitution unless it is the 1% of the time that for some reason it winds up actually mattering.
I think that the take home message is not one about horrible DMs, but one about how Chris was in the unenviable position of encountering a reskin that should have been let slide in any situation except for the exact scenario that was being run. This is proven further by the fact that we got both sides of the story in that thread and the other person involved was remarkably evenhanded and reasonable about it even if he did get driven from the table.
Chris Mortika wrote:MrSin, I'll hold that up as an example of a GM attempting to be polite, to explain the rules, and offer work-arounds in a spirit of helping people have fun. If that's what qualifies as a "horror story" then we're in pretty good shape.Well... That comes off as a little arrogant to me personally. The point was that different people have different perceptions on things. What you consider polite and well handled I consider a disaster and lacking empathy.
That retelling is not so much arrogant as it is just spun in his own favor which is really a completely natural response. I find the "work-around" of your character is just deluded to be unbelievably condescending but that is really the only reasonable objection to how it was handled judging from reading both sides of the story.
Shfish |
Kenzie, since ultimate equipment has what your looking for, here is a toy breed that should fit your idea: Japanese Chin. Originally a Chinese breed, it was gifted to the ruler of Japan and the breed slowly changed over time (line breeding and all that) and later became the name we use today. What is notable about it is both Buddhist and Christian monks would carry this dog with them on their travels (like a familiar), often carrying them by holding their hands in front of them and letting their robe sleeves envelop them for protection and comfort.
Here is the wiki article though it is missing some info...and it has pics.
Go to Japanese Chin.
MrSin |
Create a homunculus in the shape of a dog??
Pfft, if we're going to be that expensive get a cat familiar, swap weapon finesse for extra item slot, and use a hat of disguise. Its more than intelligent enough to use it. You now have a cat that can be disguised as a highly fashionable dog. Max out your ranks in bluff and if they ask why its meowing tell them they're crazy, dogs don't meow! Later when you have too much money, you can use a circlet of speaking to let it speak its mind and you no longer have to worry about meowing, you can even have it woof in the presence of others, though you will have to use your (at this point) large bluff check to tell them they're crazy, dogs don't talk!
Kezzie Redlioness |
Pfft, if we're going to be that expensive get a cat familiar, swap weapon finesse for extra item slot, and use a hat of disguise. Its more than intelligent enough to use it. You now have a cat that can be disguised as a highly fashionable dog. Max out your ranks in bluff and if they ask why its meowing tell them they're crazy, dogs don't meow! Later when you have too much money, you can use a circlet of speaking to let it speak its mind and you no longer have to worry about meowing, you can even have it woof in the presence of others, though you will have to use your (at this point) large bluff check to tell them they're crazy, dogs don't talk!
Funny aside Mr. Sin, many Japanese Chins have a whining bark that sounds like a meow....oh and they really can also do a whining bark that sounds like "momma" (used to freak out my friends to hear a dog 'talk')
Yes, well... Funny as that idea is, a cat is still a cat.
MrSin |
I just wish someone would get creative enough to simply put out more flexible rules for how an animal/magical beast becomes a viable familiar. Small to diminutive seems to be the size range, but what makes some creatures familiar material and others not?
You could have a dog for a familiar in a home game easily I'd bet. PFS just happens to be limited to whatever's written at the moment, and unfortunately that means dogs aren't legal for PFS. You've got sloths, dinosaurs, and giant fleas, but no dice for dogs.
Seraphimpunk |
but there's nothing stating toy dogs can be familiars.
at least with the pirate adventure paths and some blog posts, official reskins that can be used as familiars exist for those creatures.
if there's something that says "toy dogs can be familiars, use the fox stats as stated in ultimate equipment" then you're golden.
what about a fox with really long hair, that you groom to look like a toy dog w/ prestidigitation? lol
Kezzie Redlioness |
Little update for my zombie thread here.
I found out that Icanhave a toy breed dog as a familiar.
As per the description from Ultimate Equipment:
" Lap Dog: These tiny dogs are commonly kept as pets. They cannot be combat trained, but can serve as noisy-but-skittish watch creatures. Lap dogs have the same statistics as foxes."
Problem now solved. I don't know HOW I missed that...*Face-palm*