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Solution.
Own PDF.
Bring printed pages.
Use pdf for legal owning of rules requirement.
Use printed pages for actual rules reference.
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I don't understand. Are you saying that GMs should be required to carry all those books to every game day, instead of the player who uses the book for their PC? That seems rather unfair to the GM.
You do realize that you can print the pages from the PDF to bring just those pages with you, right? So you don't have to carry the entire book.
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As a GM, you are expected to have [b]access[b] (not necessarily have the book) to the Core Rulebook, APG, UCo, UE, UM, ARG, B1, B2, B3, NPCC. This can include getting everything you need for running the game off of the PRD. You are not responsible for bringing everything that the characters need. That is the player's responsibility.
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Ok did i miss interpret something. I though i saw in the changes that you could not print a page from a book and just bring those pages to the game. I own a hard copy of all of them and dont really want to bring the entire book to every game. Are the printed pages ok? Did i read something wrong?GM's may also use the PRD (either on their laptop or tablet) or use a printout from the PRD.
GM's are not required to actually own all those books, or have all the physical copies of the books with them.
GM's are not held to the same standards of requiring them to bring a PFS legal book to the table.
GM's are allowed to use the PRD. I think it is safe to assume that you have access to the internet, because you are posting here. Just pull up the monster or class or whatever on the PRD, and print it out from there.
I don't want to encourage making photo-copies of pages of the books.
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I asked, print outs dont cut it anymore.GM's may also use the PRD (either on their laptop or tablet) or use a printout from the PRD.
GM's are not required to actually own all those books, or have all the physical copies of the books with them.
For players, you are correct.
GM's aren't required to own all the books. That is why the GM can use the PRD.
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You're confusing Additional Resources with Core Assumption:
In order to utilize content from an Additional Resource, a player must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of it, or a printout of the relevant pages from it, as well as a copy of the current version of the Additional Resources list.
Additionally, a GM should have access to all books in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line of hardcover rulebooks, whether a physical or electronic copy. The rules content of these books can be found online for free as part of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document located at paizo.com/prd.
How much would the PDFs cost for someone who has the full set in hardback?Solution.
Own PDF.
Bring printed pages.
Use pdf for legal owning of rules requirement.
Use printed pages for actual rules reference.
Not counting possible taxes? Core 5 books would be about $50 US total as PDF, a savings of $100-$150 roughly. Cost of the inevitable tablet or laptop to carry to the table? Lowest price being around $250 I think for an Ultrabook, or around $200 for a low end tablet like a Nook.
Of course, the costly part is the additional materials. Since most have a price connected to a subscription, I can't get a base price to calculate off of. According to the site though, it should be around 30% of the price for the physical product. So the equation there is price = # of additional books times 30% base price. Repeat for every subsection of those additional books, as it's divided between Campaign Setting, Player's Companion, Modules, and Adventure Path products.
Let's just say it'll add up. Not as much as physical product, but with a potential added cost of the storage medium.
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You're confusing Additional Resources with Core Assumption:
In order to utilize content from an Additional Resource, a player must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of it, or a printout of the relevant pages from it, as well as a copy of the current version of the Additional Resources list.Additionally, a GM should have access to all books in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line of hardcover rulebooks, whether a physical or electronic copy. The rules content of these books can be found online for free as part of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document located at paizo.com/prd.I dont think i am confusing anything. Ultimate equipment, magic, advanced, are all referenced in Additional resources.
So if i have 3 spells in core, 2 in advanced, 1 in ultimate magic, 1 in ultimate combat, i am hulking around 4 books. Thats silly.
What's that got to do with GM expectations?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I dont think i am confusing anything.
Well, the thread title you wrote references being the GM, and the GM doesn't have to bring those books to the table - just have to have access to them in some form or another.
If what you're really talking about is being a player, though:
So if i have 3 spells in core, 2 in advanced, 1 in ultimate magic, 1 in ultimate combat, i am hulking around 4 books. Thats silly.
For starters, you don't have to bring the CRB to the table. Just make sure you know how your Core stuff works. :)
For the rest, frankly, you made the decision to make a PC whose abilities spanned multiple books. No one forced that on you. If carrying a book for 1 spell is silly, then so was your decision to include that one spell on your character. You could have chosen differently.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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Are we still talking about GM expectations?well yes i think
so if i bring just the printed out pages, and gms are supposed to have access to the core 5 books mentioned, am i good to go?
I think your thread title confused everyone.
If you are a PLAYER, you need to bring all sources (hardcopy or pdf) for your character.
If you are a GM, you can use printouts from the PRD for the scenario/module NPCs.
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When I am GMing, PFS I bring the core rulebook and a bestiary.
I also bring my "PFS" binder, which has things like PFS numbers, some printed maps (i.e. world map, Inner Sea map, Tian Xia, Varisia, Absalom, Magnimar, Korvosa, Riddleport, Kaer Maga, Sandpoint, World Wound).. In addition in my PFS binder I have the PFS guide to organized play printed . I have printouts of the iconic pregens. Also I have in it some pages from the Pathfinder Field Guide with information on the 10 factions (now 8) and vanities you could purchase with prestige. Lastly I included in that binder a printout of the additional resources. If I have the time, from the PDFs I get from my Paizo subscriptions, printouts of the specific pages I needed for the module (ie monster spell rule etc).
I would also bring a printed copy of the scenario I am going to run and a blank flip map with wet erase markers.
I would also bring a small bag of minis for the scenario, and some “iconic” minis for players to use.
This is of course if I have my head screwed on right that day.
One time I got to the store ready to run my game, and as I was getting my back pack out of the back of my car, I quickly checked to see what I had, and I realized I had left the module I was going to run, We Be Goblins Too, back on my desk at home! So usually I manage to forget something on my list.
From what I understand, the "assumption" is that I have access to all of those books in some shape or form, but I don't have to pack them up and bring them to the game I am running.
From what I understand It is the players responsibility to bring either a hard copy book or a page printed from a water marked PDF of the additional materiel (rules race feat spell etc) so I can read it and understand what rules they are using.
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Maybe I should just copy and paste the entire Guide.
Pathfinder Society Organized Play assumes that every player has the following resources.
• Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook
• Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play (this document)
It's expected you own those to play. One of them is free.
Additionally, a GM should have access to all books in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game line of hardcover rulebooks, whether a physical or electronic copy. The rules content of these books can be found online for free as part of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document located at paizo.com/prd. Unless noted otherwise in this guide, everything contained in the Core Rulebook (except artifacts, evil items, and intelligent items) is legal for Pathfinder Society play. Players whose characters utilize creatures from an approved Additional Resource as companions or familiars are required to have that reference at the table.
In order to utilize content from an Additional Resource, a player must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of it, or a printout of the relevant pages from it, as well as a copy of the current version of the Additional Resources list.
As a player, you are expected to have a physical copy or a watermarked PDF or a print-out from same for anything that doesn't come from the CRB. So if you're playing a Witch, you need a copy of the APG. This will not always be enforced, but you need to be aware that it is the rule and be prepared to have it or risk not playing that character. Either way, the GMs' core assumption is not relevant to the resources your character uses.
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everything i am seeing here is leading to
rebuy everything as pdf
or
invest in portable bookcaseAnd that seems to be ok with everyone, which i find odd. I cant be the only one who thinks this is just not the right thing to do to people who bought something but just dont want to lug it everywhere
If you're talking about your requirements as a player, yes, that's what you have to do.
It is what it is.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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neferphras,
As a player, yes. Bring the book or a PDF or a print-out of the watermarked PDF.
As Jiggy notes, if you don't want to carry it around, that's fine, nobody's making you do that. But when you decide that you want Character xxxxx-03 to use a feat out of "Ultimate Magic" and spells out of "Inner Sea Magic" and an elixir out of Adventure Path #39, the practical ramifications of bringing those sources to the table should be factored in.
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everything i am seeing here is leading to
rebuy everything as pdf
or
invest in portable bookcaseAnd that seems to be ok with everyone, which i find odd. I cant be the only one who thinks this is just not the right thing to do to people who bought something but just dont want to lug it everywhere
Its always been the rule neferphras. People just misinterpreted Mike Brock's statement from almost 2 years ago (and Mike admitted it was unclear, which is why he's clarified it).
And the number of books you list, I easily fit in my backpack, and did exactly what you suggested before I got all my PDFs.
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Ok, as someone who uses the PRD a lot, This ruling makes me a bit hesitant to play PFS. My budget does not allow me to purchase all of the books, and I do not own a tablet, so PDF's are not an option for me (how can I show that I own it if it's at home)
I could see the ruling that in order for a player to use a spell, for instance, they need to have the spell printed out from the PRD or their PDF or bring their book with them. But since this doesn't seem to be the case.....
I guess I'll just have to stick to home games or playing online using roll20 or something (bummer...)
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It sounds like you perhaps missed a couple of very long discussion threads on this board about this topic a couple of weeks ago, when the updated language in the latest PFSGtOP came out, including this thread:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q0lv?Retraining-due-to-failure-to-own-books
In short:
- This is not a new rule; the rule all along has been that, if you, as a player (not GM) are using a rules item, you need to be able to produce actual evidence at the table that you own (or, at least, have access to, in the case of a family who's playing) the rule source in question.
- One clarification that was made was that a photocopy of the page out of a hard-copy book was no longer acceptable (not clear if it ever truly was).
- Yes, it does mean that, if your character uses rules items from a half-dozen different books, you need to actually have the actual rules with you.
- HeroLab licenses (not that you asked) are not the same as having purchased the books from Paizo.
- No, not everyone is OK with this, particularly players who either (a) had not really read the rule in detail, (b) had misunderstood it (as Andrew Christian notes, it was not necessarily clearly stated before), (c) had sort of ignored it, or (d) incorrectly assumed that having access to HeroLab or the PRD "counted". Despite this, don't count on the rule being changed.
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Ok, as someone who uses the PRD a lot, This ruling makes me a bit hesitant to play PFS. My budget does not allow me to purchase all of the books, and I do not own a tablet, so PDF's are not an option for me (how can I show that I own it if it's at home)
I could see the ruling that in order for a player to use a spell, for instance, they need to have the spell printed out from the PRD or their PDF or bring their book with them. But since this doesn't seem to be the case.....
I guess I'll just have to stick to home games or playing online using roll20 or something (bummer...)
Yep, that's the free option.
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Ok, as someone who uses the PRD a lot, This ruling makes me a bit hesitant to play PFS. My budget does not allow me to purchase all of the books, and I do not own a tablet, so PDF's are not an option for me (how can I show that I own it if it's at home)
I could see the ruling that in order for a player to use a spell, for instance, they need to have the spell printed out from the PRD or their PDF or bring their book with them. But since this doesn't seem to be the case.....
I guess I'll just have to stick to home games or playing online using roll20 or something (bummer...)
Or, you can always build a CRB only character. Believe me, they are still good! You WILL still have fun.*
*Insert a lot of disclaimers here.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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I dont think i am confusing anything.Well, the thread title you wrote references being the GM, and the GM doesn't have to bring those books to the table - just have to have access to them in some form or another.
If what you're really talking about is being a player, though:
So if i have 3 spells in core, 2 in advanced, 1 in ultimate magic, 1 in ultimate combat, i am hulking around 4 books. Thats silly.For starters, you don't have to bring the CRB to the table. Just make sure you know how your Core stuff works. :)
For the rest, frankly, you made the decision to make a PC whose abilities spanned multiple books. No one forced that on you. If carrying a book for 1 spell is silly, then so was your decision to include that one spell on your character. You could have chosen differently.
It still hurts.
Realize that I carry the Andoran book for Liberating Command, the Chel. book for Infernal Healing, the Dwarvs book for Watchful Eye, Gods and Magic for Pick Your Poison, ARG for Ironbeard, UM for Murderous Command, UC for Forbid Action.... and that just covers my Clerics 1st level spells, (How many people forget they also need the Adventurers Armory for a spring loaded wrist sheith?)... We have Ultimit Equipment to put (most) all the equipment into one book, but spells are scattered all over. I question that decision to run a Cleric (and gain access to these spells on his spell list) may have been silly... He could have chosen a fighter or Oracle and not had this issue.
Is this one reason Clerics are "rare"?
;)
Clerics have 25 spells at 1st level in the Core Rulebook. Not including bonus spells granted by domain (which are also found in the core).
You also don't need a sourcebook to get the best spell ever.
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At my table, you should expect that if Character A buys a wand of infernal healing and asks Character B to use it, then the burden falls to Player A to provide the resource for the spell.
Agreed. Its the owner of the spell/wand/item/class ability that must provide the source.
Not the one who actually uses it during the game.
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I would like to point out that in other threads Campaign staff have expressed willingness and intent to look into options that would allow you to only bring a photocopy and some kind of proof of ownership of the physical book.
At this time that is not an option, but they may come up with some option like that at some point in the future.
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everything i am seeing here is leading to
rebuy everything as pdf
or
invest in portable bookcaseAnd that seems to be ok with everyone, which i find odd. I cant be the only one who thinks this is just not the right thing to do to people who bought something but just dont want to lug it everywhere
....
What is seems to me is that some people want to build characters using the pfsrd and then do not want to buy the materials that those character elements come from.
If everyone did that, paizo would swiftly be out of business and we wouldn't have PFS.
As a GM, I bring a Core rulebook and the appropriate bestiary. If a player wants to run something not in Core, they bring the appropriate materials. It is the only feasible way to handle it.
This came up in a table I was in during GenCon in which the player was running a rule incorrectly and then argued with the GM about it. The GM asked, well, let's take a look at the rule and we can see. The player said, "Well, I don't have it with me!" She couldn't even remember what book it came out of.
And that is why you need to have the materials with you if you want to play them.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Realize that I carry the Andoran book for Liberating Command, the Chel. book for Infernal Healing, the Dwarvs book for Watchful Eye, Gods and Magic for Pick Your Poison, ARG for Ironbeard, UM for Murderous Command, UC for Forbid Action.... and that just covers my Clerics 1st level spells, ... I question that decision to run a Cleric (and gain access to these spells on his spell list) may have been silly... He could have chosen a fighter or Oracle and not had this issue.
Is this one reason Clerics are "rare"?
;)
Or you could have chosen to play a cleric using just the CRB and not have to carry a single book, and still have strong 1st-level spells like bless, protection from evil, divine favor, command, and plenty others.
Or use just CRB+APG, and have plenty of material to go nuts with and still only be carrying a single book.
The fact that some players can't fathom the idea of playing a character without ALL OF THE THIIIINGS and also are not willing to assess their personal needs/circumstances as part of their decision-making process, is not the fault of the campaign.
