My assassin has an easy time get past enemies. Even enemies with scent and tremor sense are ineffective against my assassin at this point.
My question is: Is there a in rules way to get around blindsight/blindsense?
[b]EDIT:[\b]on second thought I guess this should have been posted in Advice or something but its here now so please help :)
Where has that been all my life? What book is that in? I cannot believe I have never seen it before.
BBT thank you
Also I'm happy to finally get an answer on here...I don't have many questions and post even fewer and of those now only 2 have been answered now
Being Ethereal would probably work too.
The PrC...I agree it sucks for what it used to be but I have had a blast so far.
I was recently told of a certain dragon that has something I want...and I am going alone so a way to get around his senses was necessary. I am hoping he seriously fails his fort save against my Death attack
I'm about to hit level 15 so that feat is perfect...from my research (by my character) I have found out quite a bit about the dragon. The only extra info my GM gave was that he's a CR 12-14 dragon *gulp*
"Deafening attacks thwart blindsight if it relies on hearing."
Oh I know that...the only custom magic item I got an ok on from my GM was Trackless Boots of the Soft Step...also I can go invisible at will a few times a day and I have a wonderfully high stealth score
My other question was what book was that feat in? I have no memory of it from core and don't have my books right now
At the bottom of the d20 site it lists the source.
Pathfinder Player Companion: Dungeoneer's Handbook © 2013, Paizo Publishing, LLC; Authors: Amanda Hamon, Gareth Hanrahan, David Ross, and Jerome Virnich.
Thanks...my phone has some issues with the d20pfsrd and even the paizo site itself a lot...so the part you are speaking of does not show :(
"Deafening attacks thwart blindsight if it relies on hearing."
That's a nice gesture, but sadly not very helpful (not your fault though).
WotC had a neat idea -- create super-sense abilities -- but then they never actually fleshed it out by saying that this monster has super hearing, this other monster detects changes in air pressure ... No, apparently they all have some generic blend that's immune to the weaknesses of any particular type.
The Destrachan is the only fragment I know of that actually exhibits this quality. It's a shame, because typing blindsight into blindsight (hearing, 100 ft), blindsight (air movement, 30 ft) and so on would be a lot more interesting to me.
I am forced to admit that it would introduce more hairy rules issues, though.
Indeed, blindsight is some mystical unknown sense that apparently uses an otherwise unknown organ and sense that we as human beings can't fathom. At least thats how the rules make it work because nothing is noted to specifically use hearing for its blindsight.
Also, keep in mind that if the dragon has true sight, or detect magic, or a myriad of other abilities there will be no hiding from him. Detect magic, an at will ability (at least for Red Dragons) will take him 3 rounds to know where you are worst case scenario. I would also expect that this dragons home will probably have magical traps and wards present to protect him, which even if you manage to bypass will still probably alert him. I guess my point is...be careful.
Well I am always careful :) and this character is one of my favorites to play so far so I'm really hoping he doesn't bite it lol
1. I'm really hoping to catch him when he's sleeping
2. Detect magic is a cone effect and he has ( to my character's knowledge) tons of magic stuff where he sleeps so as long as I give him no reason to be alarmed I should be fine since its 3 rounds of me not moving for him to find me...and I'm not going to just stand there
3.truesight doesn't do anything against straight stealth...and even without the +20 for going invisible its approaching godly
4.magical traps can be bypassed by a rogue
Thanks again BBT for the feat...I'll have to hold off on getting the next dimensional feat but this is way worth it
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The way around blindsight is a 30-ft.-semi-circle.
Disguise yourself as a humanoid statue. The thing with Blindsight/sense obviously is confused about how a statue got into its lair, but it knows that if it could really see you that you would match the decor so it ignores you and goes about its business ... and then you wait for it to go to sleep and assassinate the hell out of it.
@Yora nice one :)
My disguise is also fairly good BUT I'm all for not being seen at ALL and once I get that feat I'll be set
Well I am always careful :) and this character is one of my favorites to play so far so I'm really hoping he doesn't bite it lol
1. I'm really hoping to catch him when he's sleeping
2. Detect magic is a cone effect and he has ( to my character's knowledge) tons of magic stuff where he sleeps so as long as I give him no reason to be alarmed I should be fine since its 3 rounds of me not moving for him to find me...and I'm not going to just stand there
3.truesight doesn't do anything against straight stealth...and even without the +20 for going invisible its approaching godly
4.magical traps can be bypassed by a rogueThanks again BBT for the feat...I'll have to hold off on getting the next dimensional feat but this is way worth it
While truesight doesn't do anything against stealth specifically, but you have to remain hidden behind something. If you're invisible and he has true sight and you walk across an area with nothing to hide behind stealth doesn't work.
Also, while a rogue can disable magical traps a Glyph of Warding set on the backside above a door is impossible to detect with perception (no line of sight) and can be physically bypassed with specific magic as mentioned in the spell. If I were a paranoid dragon I would have used a scroll to cast this in the area in which I sleep, which would be deep underground with only one entrance/exit.
Keep in mind that you are dealing with a higher-CR dragon, which tend towards having very formidable Perception bonuses. A lower CR dragon as the base creature with +1-3 CR worth of templates/class levels, for example, can put a serious damper on your plans.
If you're looking at the typical dragon's hoard, moving across it will be at a penalty and at a reduced rate of speed. Depending on the specifics of the lair's location, invisibility won't do you a whole heck of a lot of good. In more than a few cases, the approaches into the lair are likely to be quite challenging for a non-dragon to move through, let alone doing so stealthily.
After all, if would-be thieves drown in the water-filled tunnels to a water dragon's lair, they provide the dragon with both food and loot. Make sure that you don't become food. ;)
Being Ethereal would probably work too.
Reiterating ethereal. Has the advantage of being a core game mechanic. Not all GM's allow the material from the peripheral sources.
Editorial: the feat doesn't strike me as 'fair'. Kind of like the meta-magic that allows mind-affecting to work on creatures immune to mind-affecting spells (also one that works on negative energy).
I'm not going to lie, if I was a the dragon I would have roost way up in the mountains so that to get to the only entrance you would have to either climb very high or fly up to it. Then that single entrace would lead you deep down into the mountain with the way down having many magical traps. Finally my chamber where I sleep would have a Greater Glyph of Warding with Antimagic Field spell attached to it. The room would be just large enough to accomodate me. Probably also need some permanent Alarm spells along the path to my room to mentally awaken me before you ever arrive. That way, by the time you arrive I'm awake and just waiting for you to open the door and set off my Glyph, invoke the antimagic field (putting most anything at a distinct disadvantage vs a dragon) shortly before I claw/bite you to death. As far as I can recall all metallic and chromatic dragons get to cast spells as wizards (with caster level dependent on age category?). Dragons are long lived and intelligent, they don't get that way but failing to take precautions. Imagine you are fighting a well prepared wizard whos been alive 300 years. He's probably got some "gotcha" plan.
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Also, while a rogue can disable magical traps a Glyph of Warding set on the backside above a door is impossible to detect with perception (no line of sight) and can be physically bypassed with specific magic as mentioned in the spell. If I were a paranoid dragon I would have used a scroll to cast this in the area in which I sleep, which would be deep underground with only one entrance/exit.
I'm sorry, but where in Glyph of Warding does it say you can put it only on the backside of the door? It effects object touched. That is the entire door. Alternately, you could use it to ward the squares the door is in as an area.
Either way, it specifically says you CAN use perception to find it (for rogues, or others with trapfinding). Furthermore, glyph of warding would count a spell trap, and could be disable deviced by a rogue or other class with trapfinding.
A really nasty trick for a dragon with trap-crafting minions is to litter the entrances with traps that are just difficult enough for Disable Device checks to require a couple of rounds or more to disable. While the RAW doesn't state one way or another, disabling devices/locks is not exactly a quiet activity. (Picking a lock is, but not disabling it.) A plethora of DC 20 mechanical traps mixed in with some choice magical traps, especially in combination with 'unpleasant terrain features', should make life very difficult and time-consumptive for solo entry.
Alternatively, there may be several heavily trapped entrances except one. Beware that one entrance...
"It doesn't say it is quiet, therefore it is loud" does not hold up.
There is no stealth penalty for using disable device, and therefore disable device does not make it harder to use stealth (and therefore remain undetected).
I'm sorry, but where in Glyph of Warding does it say you can put it only on the backside of the door? It effects object touched. That is the entire door. Alternately, you could use it to ward the squares the door is in as an area.
Either way, it specifically says you CAN use perception to find it (for rogues, or others with trapfinding). Furthermore, glyph of warding would count a spell trap, and could be disable deviced by a rogue or other class with trapfinding.
You're question is good and fair, perhaps the way we have read the rules (the people I play with) has lead to a different conclusion. The way we have read it is, with a room with only once entrance you could put it on the back side of the door (the part not facing toward the opening). The ward is visible, but only if you're on the other side, there is no line of sight to it otherwise (we never interpreted it as going all the way through the object). If the only way to see the ward is to open the door, and opening sets it off then you don't have much of an option.
Alternatively, the dragon could just cast deeper darkness after he casts the glyph of warding. You'd have to be able to dispel the deeper darkeness to see the spell.
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You're question is good and fair, perhaps the way we have read the rules (the people I play with) has lead to a different conclusion. The way we have read it is, with a room with only once entrance you could put it on the back side of the door (the part not facing toward the opening). The ward is visible, but only if you're on the other side, there is no line of sight to it otherwise (we never interpreted it as going all the way through the object). If the only way to see the ward is to open the door, and opening sets it off then you don't have much of an option.
Alternatively, the dragon could just cast deeper darkness after he casts the glyph of warding. You'd have to be able to dispel the deeper darkeness to see the spell.
Deeper darkness is 10min/level and not open for permanency. So unless he is wasting a lot of effort on that door (not to mention waking up frequently to re-cast it) it doesn't really work.
Also, just because you can't see, the rogue could still have detect magic up and sense the glyph that way. Remember also, rogues get automatic checks on traps within 10' with a rogue talent. That is all that is required. Apply perception modifiers as appropriate of course, but at 10' they get the check.
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I hate to put down your plans, Drakkiel, but assassinating a dragon is - at some point - going to come down to hoping for a natural 1 or natural 20 on the die. They're very difficult to solo.
A friend of mine had an awakened monkey assassin as a cohort. It did in fact manage to use Death Attack on a dragon, which presumably had botched its fort save.
It's a long shot, but it's still worth trying.
"It doesn't say it is quiet, therefore it is loud" does not hold up.
There is no stealth penalty for using disable device, and therefore disable device does not make it harder to use stealth (and therefore remain undetected).
Common sense says otherwise. I disable locks for a living. Disabling things is not quiet. Note that I already made the distinction regarding picking locks as opposed to disabling them. The tools used and the lock's material determine how loud it is. Picking a lock bypasses the mechanism, reflected in the lock DCs.
Disabling devices is not excessively noisy unless you are using a hammer and a piton/spike/screwdriver. The banging of metal-on-metal is not quiet.
Mechanically/RAW, there is no penalty. Common sense is expected to be applied last I heard.
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Common sense says otherwise. I disable locks for a living. Disabling things is not quiet. Note that I already made the distinction regarding picking locks as opposed to disabling them. The tools used and the lock's material determine how loud it is. Picking a lock bypasses the mechanism, reflected in the lock DCs.
Disabling devices is not excessively noisy unless you are using a hammer and a piton/spike/screwdriver. The banging of metal-on-metal is not quiet.
Mechanically/RAW, there is no penalty. Common sense is expected to be applied last I heard.
Using a hammer and a piton/spike/screwdriver is not "disable device" it is "smashing an object".
I've taken a lock (on my house) apart before. That effectively disabled it. It was very quiet to do so. To me, disable device on mechanical things is primarily undoing screws/bolts so that you can remove gears/levers/linkages, which stops the thing from doing what it does. To disable a pressure plate, you don't need to stop it from moving down, you just need to disconnect the arm that leads to the release for the scythe in the wall.
Disable device is a dex skill, I assume you are disabling it similar to how you pick a lock, and not by wantonly smashing things.
Lastly, just because I'm curious, what job has disabling locks for a living, and not just picking them?
Deeper darkness is 10min/level and not open for permanency. So unless he is wasting a lot of effort on that door (not to mention waking up frequently to re-cast it) it doesn't really work.
Also, just because you can't see, the rogue could still have detect magic up and sense the glyph that way. Remember also, rogues get automatic checks on traps within 10' with a rogue talent. That is all that is required. Apply perception modifiers as appropriate of course, but at 10' they get the check.
The DM can rule that permanency can be applied to any spell he deems. Further a scroll of Unhallow will allow the affect of deeper darkness to applied anyways, and it lasts for a year. Sure the rogue could use detect magic, but there are plenty of spells at the dragon's disposal that the Rogue can't disable as disable device says "The spells fire trap, glyph of warding, symbol, and teleportation circle also create traps that a rogue can disarm with a successful Disable Device check. Spike growth and spike stones, however, create magic hazards against which Disable Device checks do not succeed. See the individual spell descriptions for details."
My point is ultimately, I see this as a DM trap. One in which the character has very little chance of succeeding in solo. It's the same basic problem as Schrodinger's Wizard, but now you've turned Schrodinger's Wizard into a dragon (though he could have done that with Form of the Dragon).
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there are plenty of spells at the dragon's disposal that the Rogue can't disable as disable device
Can you provide some examples of spells with long enough durations to matter, that are not able to have disable device used on them?
The DM can rule that permanency can be applied to any spell he deems.Deeper darkness is 10min/level and not open for permanency. So unless he is wasting a lot of effort on that door (not to mention waking up frequently to re-cast it) it doesn't really work.
Also, just because you can't see, the rogue could still have detect magic up and sense the glyph that way. Remember also, rogues get automatic checks on traps within 10' with a rogue talent. That is all that is required. Apply perception modifiers as appropriate of course, but at 10' they get the check.
If we are going to use GM Fiat anything can happen. It is better to use the actual rules in a debate since once we start using "well my GM..." it becomes a game of one-upmanship.
there are plenty of spells at the dragon's disposal that the Rogue can't disable as disable deviceCan you provide some examples of spells with long enough durations to matter, that are not able to have disable device used on them?
Not for the portal off of the top of my head (I don't like to play spell casters, I actually get very annoyed that a spell caster given enough preparation is invincible) but there are things like Sepia Snake Sigil. You could leave the book lying about in an intriguing place and hope the rogue reads it. It functions like one would imagine a trap does, but is virtually undetectable. Spiked Stones could be used to line the hallway before the entrance. It lasts 1 hr/level and explicitly states that while it can be detected it can't be disabled.
My whole point is just providing reason why the OP should be very very careful. To me this situation just screams trap with no way to win.
If we are going to use GM Fiat anything can happen. It is better to use the actual rules in a debate since once we start using "well my GM..." it becomes a game of one-upmanship.
Which is why I followed it up with saying that you could accomplish it by having the dragon use UMD to activate a scroll with Unhallow on it, which will accomplish having deeper darkness in an area for a year.
Spiked stones an 1hr/level is not really something that replaces a "permanent until discharged".
The sepia snake sigil is good... assuming the rogue reads it. Really not protective of a door though.
Personally, I wouldn't bet my life (or my character's) on a dragon not knowing every inch of every nook, cranny, statue and copper piece in their lair, and being aware of exactly how many magical auras are present, where they are, and what their emanating strengths and schools are.
Remember Smaug instantly noticing a small cup missing from his hoard? That seems like it would be standard behavior for dragons.
Personally, I wouldn't bet my life (or my character's) on a dragon not knowing every inch of every nook, cranny, statue and copper piece in their lair, and being aware of exactly how many magical auras are present, where they are, and what their emanating strengths and schools are.
Remember Smaug instantly noticing a small cup missing from his hoard? That seems like it would be standard behavior for dragons.
Yeah, this is pretty much my point. A dragon wizard seems like one of the worst enemies youcould encounter when he has had time to prepare, especially some place where he sleeps and hides his treasure. I think any dragon would go above and beyond to protect their hoard and themself. Again, the paranoid Schrodinger wizard. To the point where if they had sufficient wealth in game, I would say that they all buy scrolls of clone (or cast it themselves if high enough level) to make sure they can never be easily gotten. Maybe I just envision dragons as overly paranoid (at least the evil ones), but I think a long life while being evil isn't obtained by being careless.
Spiked stones an 1hr/level is not really something that replaces a "permanent until discharged".
The sepia snake sigil is good... assuming the rogue reads it. Really not protective of a door though.
I agree on both accounts but they are options. Seeing as my favorite character is the human superstition barbarian, I kinda go the opposite way of magic and only am familiar with it from the min-maxing wizard/sorcerers at my table.
Common sense says otherwise. I disable locks for a living. Disabling things is not quiet. Note that I already made the distinction regarding picking locks as opposed to disabling them. The tools used and the lock's material determine how loud it is. Picking a lock bypasses the mechanism, reflected in the lock DCs.
Disabling devices is not excessively noisy unless you are using a hammer and a piton/spike/screwdriver. The banging of metal-on-metal is not quiet.
Mechanically/RAW, there is no penalty. Common sense is expected to be applied last I heard.
Using a hammer and a piton/spike/screwdriver is not "disable device" it is "smashing an object".
I've taken a lock (on my house) apart before. That effectively disabled it. It was very quiet to do so. To me, disable device on mechanical things is primarily undoing screws/bolts so that you can remove gears/levers/linkages, which stops the thing from doing what it does. To disable a pressure plate, you don't need to stop it from moving down, you just need to disconnect the arm that leads to the release for the scythe in the wall.
Disable device is a dex skill, I assume you are disabling it similar to how you pick a lock, and not by wantonly smashing things.
Lastly, just because I'm curious, what job has disabling locks for a living, and not just picking them?
What you did was disassemble the lock from the inside with the door open. One cannot disassemble a lock from the outside with the door closed and locked. One can either disable the lock, or bypass (picks are optional) the lock. Some locks are much, much easier to bypass than others. ;)
The assembly/disassembly part is easy-peasy with modern "quick-set" locks. Old-school locks like the ones PF characters encounter are literally built into what they are securing by hand, not from a mass-produced kit that comes with all the necessary screws, bolts et al. One only needs a screwdriver (usually, some times a hammer and chisel are still necessary to modify the door to accept the new hardware) unless the door needs to be properly drilled and/or bored to accommodate the hardware.
Bypassing a lock - i.e., picking the lock - is not the same as disabling it. Traps call for the +5 DC to bypass the trap - locks are the same way, realistically. The lock DC in the CRB as I read it automatically bypasses them, enabling one to re-secure the lock at a later point. I don't know what RAW calls out for, but if you merely want to disable a lock, it is/should be significantly easier to do so.
The disabling described (hammer and pointy metal object) disables a lock to the point of requiring repair/replacement. It is the most common method of forced entry - along with using channel locks/big pliers to squeeze a door knob and wrenching sufficiently - in that with reasonable strength and strong enough tools you can quickly force the lock open. It won't operate afterwards - i.e., the lock has been disabled.
There are certain locks that are not "picked" (vaults, for example, such as are in a bank).
RE occupation: Locksmiths and certain kinds of criminals are the only two 'careers' that involve extensive use of lock picks. There are others that merely require one to disable the lock. Mine involves evictions and foreclosures from/on homes.
What about Dust of Disappearance?
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What you did was disassemble the lock from the inside with the door open. One cannot disassemble a lock from the outside with the door closed and locked. One can either disable the lock, or bypass (picks are optional) the lock. Some locks are much, much easier to bypass than others. ;)
The assembly/disassembly part is easy-peasy with modern "quick-set" locks. Old-school locks like the ones PF characters encounter are literally built into what they are securing by hand, not from a mass-produced kit that comes with all the necessary screws, bolts et al. One only needs a screwdriver (usually, some times a hammer and chisel are still necessary to modify the door to accept the new hardware) unless the door needs to be properly drilled and/or bored to accommodate the hardware.
Bypassing a lock - i.e., picking the lock - is not the same as disabling it. Traps call for the +5 DC to bypass the trap - locks are the same way, realistically. The lock DC in the CRB as I read it automatically bypasses them, enabling one to re-secure the lock at a later point. I don't know what RAW calls out for, but if you merely want to disable a lock, it is/should be significantly easier to do so.
The disabling described (hammer and pointy metal object) disables a lock to the point of requiring repair/replacement. It is the most common method of forced entry - along with using channel locks/big pliers to squeeze a door knob and wrenching sufficiently - in that with reasonable strength and strong enough tools you can quickly force the lock open. It won't operate afterwards - i.e., the lock has been disabled.
There are certain locks that are not "picked" (vaults, for example, such as are in a bank).
RE occupation: Locksmiths and certain kinds of criminals are the only two 'careers' that involve extensive use of lock picks. There are others that merely require one to disable the lock. Mine involves evictions and foreclosures from/on homes.
Thanks for all that.
You didn't address why disabling a trap has to be a noisy endeavor. Other than to say disabling a medieval style lock would be loud, therefore disabling a trap would be loud too.
Rapier of Puncturing and a couple "sacrifices" to attack the dragon prior to your death attack. Then you don't need to be invis/etheral/hiding that long.
And the whole "using sound earth logic for Pathfinder realm" stuff is funny. Where do people fly, or hide in plain sight, or teleport? The rules explain the mechanism while the fluff is left for interpretation. Because it never says in game that you don't poop or pee, does that mean con checks are required because your character "held it too long"?
Thanks for all that.You didn't address why disabling a trap has to be a noisy endeavor. Other than to say disabling a medieval style lock would be loud, therefore disabling a trap would be loud too.
I think the most accurate answer is "it depends". Some disabling would be very quiet (disabling/bypassing a typical tripwire trap as an example). Some would be moderately noisy (sawing or drilling through wood). Some would be quite loud (anything involving a hammer and pointy bit of metal, such as using a chisel or spiking something, or using a drill on metal).
I think the most accurate answer is "it depends". Some disabling would be very quiet (disabling/bypassing a typical tripwire trap as an example). Some would be moderately noisy (sawing or drilling through wood). Some would be quite loud (anything involving a hammer and pointy bit of metal, such as using a chisel or spiking something, or using a drill on metal).
I think your perception of what it takes to disable a device is excessive. You don't need to completely obliterate the thing to prevent it from working.
What if the rogue passes the check by more than 10? That allows the rogue to bypass it without disarming it, as well as letting allies bypass too. No idea how that works with a pressure plate, but obviously if it can still go off on someone else, there wasn't any serious damage dealt to the trap.
As a side note: There are separate rules for breaking a lock, instead of disabling it. This implies disable device is not destructive to the object, but merely involves disassembling it.
"Breaking a lock is sometimes quicker than breaking the whole door. If a PC wants to whack at a lock with a weapon, treat the typical lock as having hardness 15 and 30 hit points. A lock can only be broken if it can be attacked separately from the door, which means that a built-in lock is immune to this sort of treatment. In an occupied dungeon, every locked door should have a key somewhere."
I think the most accurate answer is "it depends". Some disabling would be very quiet (disabling/bypassing a typical tripwire trap as an example). Some would be moderately noisy (sawing or drilling through wood). Some would be quite loud (anything involving a hammer and pointy bit of metal, such as using a chisel or spiking something, or using a drill on metal).I think your perception of what it takes to disable a device is excessive. You don't need to completely obliterate the thing to prevent it from working.
What if the rogue passes the check by more than 10? That allows the rogue to bypass it without disarming it, as well as letting allies bypass too. No idea how that works with a pressure plate, but obviously if it can still go off on someone else, there wasn't any serious damage dealt to the trap.
As a side note: There are separate rules for breaking a lock, instead of disabling it. This implies disable device is not destructive to the object, but merely involves disassembling it.
"Breaking a lock is sometimes quicker than breaking the whole door. If a PC wants to whack at a lock with a weapon, treat the typical lock as having hardness 15 and 30 hit points. A lock can only be broken if it can be attacked separately from the door, which means that a built-in lock is immune to this sort of treatment. In an occupied dungeon, every locked door should have a key somewhere."
What it takes to disable device from the outside is quite a bit different from having access to it from the "reloading bin" (or, in the case of a lock, when you have the key and are able to open the container/portal).
Derp-edit: These kinds of materials, as outlined previously, are not exactly quiet to interact with, especially with a paltry 1 or 2 pound "tool kit" to work with. Mechanically/RAW-speaking, there is no consideration made for it, so one need not worry overmuch about it. It is not an activity that can be done stealthily under low level circumstances, depending on the specifics.
Hardness 15 is mithril, not the 9 or 10 that would be accurate for iron set into stone or wood. While the rules are what they are, they're not a well-thought approximation of how tough a medieval - Renaissance era lock is (or isn't).
The biggest disconnect I have is that even then you don't disassemble a lock from the outside - the whole idea of a lock's construction is that you can't disassemble it from the outside. If you could, it wouldn't do a lot of good.
Disabling, aka sabotaging, devices generally involves some kind of damage unless the disabler is successful enough to bypass the trigger instead of rendering the device/lock/trap nonfunctional. Bypassing is another matter obviously, since the bypassing implies no damage is dealt as you point out. Regular disabling may not require more than a few points of damage. I would find it hard to believe that something wasn't being damaged or removed. Removal of a key bit may be more accurate, perhaps?
An example that I can think of for Disable Device is the scene regarding the Excelsior in Star Trek VI , when Scotty "pulled the spark plugs" on the warp drive shortly before the ship was to go in pursuit of the protagonists. He disabled the warp drive/ship. The warp drive/ship won't be useful until the missing bits are replaced.