Yes whip works well.
Depends tho. Make sure you have a sword for back up, especially at low level the whip doesnt do lethal on it's own, but if you take the right feats it can eventually be rewarding.
Either half elf or half orc and city raised (they get whip as a WP)
so one racial trait for WP whip, and then level 1 feat for whip focus.
You can either run a regular magus, a hex crafter or technically a bladebound (but it is a stretch, it is one handed and slashing) OR you can use a skirnir.
the skirnir is helpful at lower levels especially because of it's shield, which makes it much easier to not get based trying to cast spells.
The trade off is no spell combat until 8th. But you get spellstrike at level 1 (making use of the whip right away) so you don't get the 'extra' attack by doing spell combat/spell strike, but the non spell strike weapon attack you would normally get isn't lethal with a whip anyway, and you get to do this at range.
Also if something comes up on you, you can shield bash it (yes you lose the ac but hey) or use shield bash for AoOs.
Skirnir is a hmmm archetype IMO, but really comes into it's own when using whip.
It works well, yes. It is somewhat taxing on feats though (needing exotic weapon, and a 2-3 feats just to get it to threaten squares) but you'd be able to cast your shocking grasp safely from 15 feet away. I'd recommend going human for the extra feat. Level 1 feats will be Weapon Finesse and Exotic Weapon Prof (whip), level 3 is Weapon Focus(whip), then level 5 is Whip Mastery and something else. You don't really kick into gear until level 5, but you're not ineffective at lower levels.
You main stats are Dex and Int, Con as your secondary. You can drop Cha for extra buy in points if you feel like power gaming. If I'm correct, PFS is a 15 point buy in, so this is what your stats should look like.
STR 10
DEX 16+2 Human
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 8
If it's 20 points, then bump your Dex to a 17 and either put the remaining two points in Wis for +1 to Will saves or bring your Cha up to a 10.
Edit: Use a scorpion whip to deal lethal damage at low levels. It will only cost you a few more gold (5 at the most) so you won't have a problem getting your hands on one.
You may also want to look at Kensai. Since you will be a DEX based fighter anyway, the archtype features will help out quite a bit. Kensai will get whip for free, leaving you free to choose any race (like Tiefling, hint hint)
Personally I would go Half-Elf for the low light and other benefits over human. Half-Elf can get Exotic Weapon prof. as a racial trait, so you'll have the same feats as the human, you'll just lose the skill point per level.
The Spire Defender archetype gives a free weapon proficiency in a 1-handed weapon with the trip feature, so it works for getting a whip too. It's elf-only though, and takes out armor profs for a few extra feats.
|
Hmm... Well since I am not very familiar with the magus (I've never run one and only seen them used a few times) I am not sure I was to try one of the archtypes. Usually they are more complicated than the base class and this one seems pretty complicated already. But I wil look them over.
I looked at the scorpion whip, but it doesn't say it has reach, disarm, or trip. I really want the reach and the other 2 might be nice to have on occasion.
A whip can be finessed. But is there any reason it needs to be finessed? Seems like I could just keep my strength up then when I want to do real damage I could draw a sword or whatever and do reasonable damage with it. Then I am not at too much of a disadvantage before I get all the whip feats.
So if I did half-orc and the trait that gives whip prof.
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 16 (14+2), Wis 12, Cha 7
1 weapon focus whip
3 whip mastery
5 combat reflexes
7 improved whip mastery
9 ?
11 greater whip mastery
How does this seem?
problem with human is you need +1 BAB you get it as a feat (exotic weapon) The other races can get it as a trait and therefor dont require it.
|
|
Carp. Don't have BaB +1 at first level so can't get weapon focus yet unless I go Kensai and get it for free at first.Plus I forgot the 2 free magus bonus feats.
Kensai opens up all the races again. So I will probably look to see what the favored class bonuses are for all the races.
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 7 (prior to racial adjustments)
1 combat reflexes
1 kensai weapon focus whip
3 whip mastery
5 combat expertise
5 magus improved trip
7 improved whip mastery
9 improved disarm
11 greater whip mastery
11 magus greater trip
How does this seem?
Edit: Just noticd they don't get mage armor. Might be worth getting a wand of that along with the dangerously curious trait so I can use it on myself.
You could go half-orc and take the alternate racial trait beastmaster or city-raised and be proficient with whips. Also, the Scorpion Whip does lethal damage and only requires proficiency in whip to be use it.
Edit: I see this was already covered. :)
|
|
The problem with anything other than Kensai is that I can't get weapon focus until 3rd and whip mastery until 5th. I wasn't really wanting the reduced spell casting of the Kensai. But if I'm going for the whip I want it as soon as possible.
Edit: I guess I could take 1 level of fighter or lore warden and the rest as magus or any other archtype of magus. That would still be a better caster than the Kensai. I see the reasons for 3 levels of lore warden, but I think that hurts the spell casting more than I want.
|
|
Let's try...
Half-Orc, Chaotic Good, Lantern Lodge Faction (dunno why, but magus just seems oriental to me)
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 16 (14+2), Wis 12, Cha 7
Alternate racial traits:
city raised (whip prof)
sacred tatoo (+1 luck bonus to saves)
shamans apprentice (endurance feat)
Build Traits:
story teller, lanter lodge (1/day add + int mod +3 on knowledge check)
heirloom weapon (+2 trip with whip)
1 lore warden 1 - combat expertise, weapon focus whip, all intelligence skills are class skills
2 lore warden 1 / magus 1 - arcane pool, spell combat
3 LW1/M2 - spell strike, whip mastery
4 LW1/M3 - magus arcana (arcane accuracy)
5 LW1/M4 - spell recall, improved whip mastery
6 LW1/M5 - combat reflexes
7 LW1/M6 - magus arcana (spell shield), improved trip
8 LW1/M7 - knowledge pool, medium armor
9 LW1/M8 - improved spell combat, greater trip
10 LW1/M9 - magus arcana (reflection)
11 LW1/M10 - fighter training, improved disarm
What y'll think of this?
|
|
OR only magus...
Half-Orc, Chaotic Good, Lantern Lodge Faction (dunno why, but magus just seems oriental to me)
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 16 (14+2), Wis 12, Cha 7
Alternate racial traits:
city raised (whip prof)
sacred tatoo (+1 luck bonus to saves)
shamans apprentice (endurance feat)
Build Traits:
story teller, lanter lodge (1/day add + int mod +3 on knowledge check)
heirloom weapon (+2 trip with whip)
1 - arcane pool, spell combat, combat expertise
2 - spell strike,
3 - magus arcana (arcane accuracy), weapon focus whip
4 - spell recall
5 - whip mastery, combat reflexes
6 - magus arcana (spell shield)
7 - knowledge pool, medium armor, improved whip mastery
8 - improved spell combat
9 - magus arcana (reflection), improved trip
10 - fighter training
11 - improved spell recall, greater trip, improved disarm
This gets the whip feats later, but is a better caster.
Dex isnt a good way to go really with a whip magus, you need str for CMB. Trip builds are STR.
Kensai isn't Ideal either because it really WANTS to be a dex build.
Straight Magus, Bladebound, Hexcrafter or Skirnir are really the best choices.
If you didn't want to trip, I suppose a dex build would be fine.
It's also an extra feat (on top of being already feat intensive) to go Weapon finesse and then the whip doesnt get any STR damage bonus and whip is already light on damage.
Should really look HARD at skirnir whip magus, it does A lot all the way from level one.
1) I think that's really fishing the rules hard. 2) it's STILL and extra feat and costs you damage to a very low damage weapon.
It's not the route to go in this case. Dex isn't the answer to EVERYthing. This is one of those cases.
"When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver."
The Ability Score Modifier is not considered a spell, a feat or a "other effect" since is already summed into the CMB. If you reason that way, a STR based char would add STR to his CMB and then adding it a second time as a "bonus to hit". It doesn't work that way. If you want dex to CMB you need this
|
|
I agree, I have seen that FAQ before (I had forgotten it, but I have seen it). Dex can be the stat for CMB if using a finessable weapon to disarm or trip.
However, I don't think I want that for this character. It would cost me a feat when I really don't have all the ones I want anyway.
If I just have magus levels (which is where I'm leaning) I won't have whip mastery until level 5. That's almost half his PFS career.
Plus the few magi I've seen need to fight as at least a secondary martial character much of the time since they just don't have enough spells to use them often. That may not be the case at later levels, but it definitely is early. A strength of 16 and medium armor will let me get by in that role.
|
|
Oops! Didn't notice the pre-req on that one. Drat.
I actually was considering dropping the str down to 14 and raising the int to 18, which would make the arcane accuracy more attractive.
Don't think I want a familiar learning this class is complicated enough without also dealing with a familiar. Plus I don't have the enough spare feats for improved familiar and I don't think I'd want one without it.
Not sure what you mean by "Admiral Akbar material' but yeah, I wasn't too sure of that one.
I can't think of any single spell that I'm sure enough of wanting to use up an arcana to get.
So I'm now thinking ghost strike and maneuver mastery (trip). For the other I was thinking about still going with arcane accuracy or maneuver mastery (disarm)
|
|
Ah, ok, I didn't remember that line. It's been a long time since I watched the movies.
Combat reflexes is mostly left over from when I started thinking of it as a dex build. I had considered switching dex/con, there is the spell cat's grace which I've always liked, and eventually I would want to get the belt. But PFS career is short enough that I probably won't have that and everything else I want. So it probably isn't needed.
I looked again at wand wielder and spell combat. I was thinking of wand mastery which didn't seem that great to me. And for some reason, I've always thought spell combat meant that the spell had to be an attack spell. But it really doesn't say anything like that. That and 1st level wands are easy in PFS.
So yeah, I will take wand wielder.
---------------------------------------------------------
So now I'm at...
Half-Orc, Chaotic Good, Qadira
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 16 (14+2), Wis 12, Cha 7
Alternate racial traits:
city raised (whip prof)
sacred tatoo (+1 luck bonus to saves)
shamans apprentice (endurance feat)
Build Traits:
eastern mysteries (1 spell ea day +2 save DC)
heirloom weapon (+2 trip with whip)
1 - arcane pool, spell combat, combat expertise
2 - spell strike
3 - magus arcana (wand wielder), weapon focus whip
4 - spell recall
5 - whip mastery, improved trip
6 - magus arcana (spell blending or maneuver mastery trip)
7 - knowledge pool, medium armor, improved whip mastery
8 - improved spell combat
9 - magus arcana (ghost strike), greater trip
10 - fighter training
11 - improved spell recall, improved disarm, greater disarm
If I just have magus levels (which is where I'm leaning) I won't have whip mastery until level 5. That's almost half his PFS career.
You could swap to slow progression once you hit level 5. That way you have 15 missions till level 5, then 36 more missions till level 11.
15 out of 51, well that is just 29% of your career.|
|
... You could swap to slow progression once you hit level 5. That way you have 15 missions till level 5, then 36 more missions till level 11.
15 out of 51, well that is just 29% of your career.
You can switch progression rate? I thought once it was picked it was fixed.
Don't think I will do that anyway even if allowed. I don't get to play all that often and would like to get at least a couple up to high levels someday.
I thought you could switch at every level up. I guess it doesn't matter anyway, though.
|
That is correct, you can switch progression rate between normal and slow whenever you level up, as long as you exactly level up.
That proviso covers playing a module or AP section that grants 3 XP when you are less than that away from leveling.
I was working on a whip Magus, but decided that he was going to be similar, overall, to my lore warden whip wielder, so I switched him back to the iconic scimitar.
I would tend to recommend swapping Dex and Con for your build, especially if you retain Combat Reflexes. Using a whip should, usually mean that you are more than a 5' step from your opponents, so you shouldn't need the extra hit points very often, if at all.
Looks like you are going vanilla Magus?
It does take a while before the whip comes into its own. You might consider packing a longspear or other reach weapon for the first few levels. Oil of Magic Weapon, or the judicious use of your Arcane Pool can still let you have a magic weapon when needed. One of the reasons I switched from whip on my Magus was the confusion of whether my Shocking Grasp, when delivered by a non-lethal weapon, would do lethal or non-lethal damage....
But scimitar Magus is both Bladebound and Kensai, so he is a bit sick, and, at 5th level, is likely to get sicker yet. For most purposes, I suspect, I will be using the Arcane Pool point to add +1 and keen to his scimitar, as a 15-20 crit range, which also applies to his Intensified, +1 CL Shocking Grasp (in a first level slot) would be ugly. 1d6+6d6+6 before the crit multipler is sick for the few times he can cast it. And, in PFS, if you pay attention, you'll know when to use your precious spells, and when to let the Fighter shine.
Also, even with a 16 Int, a well-timed Color Spray, and bad luck for the GM's saving throw, helped against an opponent. And, most of all, don't get stuck on just the spellstrike spells. My PC's second level spell slot was filled with a Mirror Image for my last game, and that saved his life, and, since his Shocking Grasp attack had caught the BBEG's attention, that of the rest of the party. Not to mention the Fighter having drunk a Blur potion for the rounds when I had retreated to get healed. A BBEG who can cast Deeper Darkness at will, with sneak attack dice, and the ability to see through his Deeper Darkness is just plain ugly.
|
|
Yeah, I've been thinking about that. But I'm trying for a gish type concept that is at least as much of a caster as a martial.
My build concept process went something like this.
I was previously trying to do it with a dragon disciple but PFS basically retires just as that is getting good. So that wasn't working out for me.
Then I started looking at eldritch knight with arcane armor training. But that started to look more and more like a magus anyhow. So I switched to magus.
So I was thinking about how to rally use his spells and fighting he has to get into melee with only light armor. So maybe he could deliver his spells with a reach weapon. What has the most reach? The whip.
The whip doesn't do alot of damage, but I could stay out of melee and still deliver the spells. If I'm using the whip anyway, might as well trip and/or disarm (tripping seems to be the more popular choice so I will take that first).
I hate PC's that are too specialized to function any other times. So this gives me an attack caster (I wish they had more utility spells), int is the casting stat so I will have skills, a controlling martial with trip and disarm, can always whale away with an axe if just need more damage, and will usually try to stay out of melee to be more survivable. I think I'm going to like this. But I may tweak it a bit more just for grins.
I appreciate everyones' opinions and suggestions.
Thanks Guys. =)
|
I have one .. for PFS ... and it is VERY Feat heavy ... making everything work is a bit of a nightmare
It took me 2 levels of fighter and a level of Monk to really work ... heres my build
Fighter / Spire Defender / Flowing Monk
Elf
Str 12
Dex 19 (+1 at 4, 8, and 12)
Con 10
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 8
Traits: Adopted - Chainfighter - Shackleborn Tiefling
Traits: Two World Magic (Touch of fatigue)
(1)Magus
(Level 1)Weapon Finesse
(Free)EWP Whip,
(free)Dodge,
(free)Combat Expertise,
t
(2)Fighter(1)
(Fighter) Weapon Focus (Whip)
(3)Fighter(2)
(fighter) Improved Trip,
(L3)Whip Mastery
(4)Magus(2)
(5)Magus(3)
(Magus Arcana) Wand Wielder
(level 5)Serpent Lash
(6)Monk (1)
(Monk)Combat Reflexes
(7)Magus(4)
(Spire Defender) Arcane Augmentation
(Level 7)Imp Whip Mastery
(8)Magus(5)
(Bonus)Greater Serpent Lash
(9)Magus(6)
Empower Arcana,
(Lvl 9)Greater Trip
(10)Magus(7)
(11)Magus(8)
(L11) Greater Whip Mastery
get yourself a +1 agile Whip (Enchantment from Society field guide) allows you to add your dex to damage with a whip
eventually with enough dex Items your going to outgrow the mithril BP .. and your going to want celestial armor
Spring loaded wrist sheaths for Quick Wand draws to use with spell combat (I recomend True strike and shield)
|
|
heirloom weapon (+2 trip with whip)Hate to burst your bubble, but Heirloom Weapon was errata'd to be only a simple or martial weapon, and a whip is exotic.
Carp Again! Didn't know that. Oh well, that is a minor part of the build. Most of my CMB plus is going to come from the wand of true strike.
May just go with the old standby of reactionary (+2 to init), but that seems boring since almost every other PC has it.
Dumping the feat chain for deadly whip is an all around bad idea. The whip feat chain does more than just make the whip do lethal damage,
A skirnir magus can threaten with his shield (improved bash would let him keep his AC)
Spell combat at 8th seems late, but it's when the magus can actually USE it the best (have enough spells to use it regularly and have enough BAB that suffering the -2/-2 still means he can hit most targets)
|
|
I'm not sure what you mean. I didn't dump the whip mastery chain. That's what the whole thing is built around. I'm not planning on greater whip mastery since that seems to be mostly just grappling with the whip which I don't think I want to do.
The only thing I can find for 'deadly whip' is a weapon property that I won't need by the time I could afford it.
I did consider the skirnir. But it is giving up a lot including spell casting ability for a shield. With a 15' reach, I'm hoping I won't feel the need for the shield too much.
Spell combat kinda pretty much IS the magus. So I'd rather not wait until I'm almost retired before I get it.