My friends and I have recently decided we will play an assassination game. As an up and coming rival gang/guild, we shall have many opportunities for diplomacy and bluffing, assassinations, straight up combat, and duels. As a result, we are trying to brainstorm all sorts of interesting and unusual assassins beyond "Rogue 5/Assassin X".
ideas we have had:
Fighter/Shadowdancer
Cleric (death/trickery domains)
Druid (for wildshaping sneakiness)
Vivisectionist Alchemist
we are looking for a group of 3-5 builds that work well together; any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks!
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Shadow-bloodline Sorcerer. Go Invisible, start dropping Shadow Conjuration[Summon Monster III] and enjoy an obscene stealth bonus while your mark thinks he's being randomly attacked by a stampede of magical beasts.
Urban Barbarian could be funny, only because when I imagine an Urban Barbarian, I imagine a short-tempered psychopath deluding himself into thinking he's cultured and erudite because he lives in a city-- picture Joe Pesci who thinks he's Marlon Brando.
And of course, nothing helps pull a group of characters together like a Bard. Dirge Bard in this case, I'd think.
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Ninja is a great entry into the Red Mantis Assassin prestige class. CHA for Ki Pool and spells is good synergy.
I also play my Zen Archer Monk as an Assassin - I took Wisdom in the Flesh (Disable Device) so he can B&E to get at his mark. He's a great Trap finder and pretty decent at disabling mechanical traps.
Urban Rangers make great melee or switch hitting assassin's. Guide is a good archetype as well - Ranger's Focus is super handy vs. The Mark at lower levels... Loosing Instant Enemy hurts later on, but if your taking a Prestige Class it may not matter...
Ninja is another boringly typical approach to assassins, sorry...
Ninja is the usual approach to assassins. Actually using the Assassin prestige class is unusual. (Mainly because it sucks.)
Half-Orc barbarian with an Earthbreaker.
What? Nothing says you have to be sneaky to assassinate people.
Also, Cleric of Ahcaekek into Red Mantis Assassin? Give 'em the ol' "Last Rites" while you're standing over their still-bleeding corpse.
Regular Alchemist, use Bombs as distractions and debilitating effects (Smoke, Stink, Force Bombs) while you make your escape on Wings and such. Be an archer on the side. Take the Chameleon Discovery and pump Stealth, and you won't even always need the Invisibility extract all the time.
Well, monk would be interesting to see as an assassin. Do their unarmed strikes qualify for the death attack? I seem to read it that way. I personally would try for the snake style imaple your target. feat chain might also go thematically with that, since it is all about impalement, and Hamatula strike lets you grapple enemies when you cannot death attack (good for a tetori monk).
Since you are forgoing rogues (thus missing fast stealth), monks might be good to make sure you are moving fast enough to get targets into charging range when you do a death attack.
NPC Codex has a Nice Monk/Assassin Build. I have a Rogue Scout Sniper who is a deadly Skirmisher Assassin. Think "The Patriot" meets Assassin's Creed.
Can't a rogue get their hands on Assassinate in some way?
I think the ninja has a similar trick called... well assassinate. It takes 1 round of study, has a save DC of 10+1/2 ninja level+CHA. Since a ninja is a full 20 level class, it could get a similar save DC to an assassin. And since the ninja can get this trick, a rogue can get it as a talent through the ninja trick.
Now I see a way for a rogue to never multiclass, but get the benefits all of the assassin's iconic abilities.
Can a Rogue get a Master Ninja Trick though?
I think the ninja has a similar trick called... well assassinate. It takes 1 round of study, has a save DC of 10+1/2 ninja level+CHA. Since a ninja is a full 20 level class, it could get a similar save DC to an assassin. And since the ninja can get this trick, a rogue can get it as a talent through the ninja trick.
Now I see a way for a rogue to never multiclass, but get the benefits all of the assassin's iconic abilities.
Well if we want to go for DC then I would point out that if you get 8 levels of master spy and 7 levels of assassin then you would have a DC of 25+Int Mod which can add a typical average of 13 by level 20, throw in ability focus and you have a DC of 40.
Of course the ninja's is still easier to use and can be done at range (unlike the assassin's... btw whose great idea was that?!?!?), so it's still probably a better overall ability.
look... I think everyone knows a ninja or rogue makes a typical, stealthy assassin. But, like someone said earlier, you don't need to be stealthy to kill people. you just need to accept gold in for killing someone.
SO lets think outside the box okay?
Tell you what, I'll share my fun next weekend, I promise it'll be worth the wait.
Dervish Dancing Druid.
2H Elven Ranger wielding an ECB.
Archer Fighter.
Musket Master.
Anything can be an Assassin using that criteria.
Good question....well, there is no specific statement, but since ninjas can get advanced rogue talents...but that could be that they mean that rogues cannot get master ninja tricks since they had to specifically say ninjas get advanced rogue talents...
So over all, it depends on the GM. Since assassin is not that hard a class to get into for any sneaky character, you can argue for it. Heck, the fact that you would have to wait until level 10 (for the sake of symmetry with ninja) would put you behind the curve for most assassins since they can get in as early as level 5. It helps that many campaigns ban evil characters, so this could be a path to gain assassination without moral quandaries... mechanically at least.
Edit for return to topic: how about a TWF Gunslinger? They put enough damage output in a moment to do the job. It is how most real world assassinations go. Maybe get a wagon to pass by the target, jump up and waste everyone. Medieval drive-by!
Musket master could be good for a sniper. I particularly like a gunslinger/monk build, due to synergy with stats and the fact that you can wield a two handed gun and still get into melee without any of that drop and quick draw business. Use monk skills to get into a high place, then then shoot/kick anyone trying to climb up to get you.
Actually, if my math is correct Assassinate is basically the ninja's way of getting the Death Effect from the Rogues Capstone with a Nerf that makes it balanced for Lower levels...
A Musket Master 5 with the rest in Ninja might be deadly... Maybe with a 1 level dip in MoMS Monk.
though any character could be an assassin, they would still need to be damaging enough in combat to actually kill successfully and repeatedly. For example, a wizard focused on buffing would probably not make the best killer...
look... I think everyone knows a ninja or rogue makes a typical, stealthy assassin. But, like someone said earlier, you don't need to be stealthy to kill people. you just need to accept gold in for killing someone.
SO lets think outside the box okay?
So basically you're saying you want an assassin without any levels in Rogue or Ninja?
Can I put my two copper in for a Kobold Bloodline Sorcerer/Sandman Bard/Arcane Trickster build?
* Sneak Attack
* Good against casters
* Can buff self and party
* Trapfinding, Disarming, and Creation
* Disable Device class skill
* Greater Invis as a free action
- Excellent flavor opportunity, no levels in Rogue or Ninja
Witch... sneak... slumber.... flat line___________________
Int Mod which can add a typical average of 13 by level 20,
For a +13 Int mod, you need to point-buy an 18 Int at character creation, choose a race with a +2 racial bonus to Int, put all five of your level-up bonuses to Int, spend more than 125k getting your +5 inherent bonus to Int, and of course get your +6 Int headband. That's a difficult proposition even for wizards, who often don't buy a full 18 in Int because they want decent Dex and Con, even though wizards use Int for pretty much everything they do. For an assassin who gets nothing out of Int except bonuses to the DC of Death Attack, which doesn't even exist until sixth level? You'd pretty much be crippling yourself.
That MADness part of what makes the assassin class so weak. You need to study your target for three rounds, so you effectively need good stealth and relatively light armor, and you need to actually be able to hit your target to kill them, so you need good Dex. But you have a d8 hit die and are required to rush into melee to use your death attack, so you need good Con. But you also need to be good at disguising and bluffing, so you want good Cha. But your Will save sucks so you can't afford to dump Wis. But your Death Attack DC is Int-based, so you also need great Int just to have a chance of using your primary class feature...
Meanwhile, the ninja version of Death Attack is Cha-based rather than Int-based, and ninjas get 8+Int skill points per level where assassins only get 4+Int, so ninjas don't need to worry about Int and can just use an ability score they already wanted anyhow.
The only reason why people pick up the assassin class is the name and the illustration in the book. Its just a class that suffers from bad mechanical deaign.
Indeed. The Death Attack of the Assassin sucks compared to the Ninja Trick. I use a homebrew version that works pretty well and just uses the Dexterity mod instead of the Intelligence mod for the Death Attack.
To balance, it also adds in an Intelligence requirement of 14 as a Prestige Class qualifier. That's not too difficult to attain unless you used INT as your dump stat. Even if you're a Ninja, you just have to get a more expensive headband to give you CHA + INT.
It's also not too much of a stretch considering the Assassin must know a bit about anatomy, poison use, tactics, and magic to use his abilities.
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I actually think I found something perfect for this. Monks have a feat called Feinting Flurry. It turns the first hit in a flurry of blows into a feint, while still allowing other to benefit. This is perfect if you have some source of sneak attack damage. The fact that even having the flurry of blows is like having the TWF feats is great for this too. Personally, I'd pick assassin for the sneak attack, but I just like the flavor of it. I know that monk does not synergize with the death attack, but it just seems appropriate.
Hmmm... thought about something. While you seem to be against a sneaky style, I just thought of an extremely useful spell for an assassin attempting to do his work covertly: prestidigitation. The most obvious use of it would be guard against being caught literally red handed. Depending on creative uses though, you might be able to get even more mileage out of it. You can clean the crime scene of blood to hide that the murder even happened there. Since the term 'soil' is a bit vague, you could soil someone else's weapon to frame them. You could even slowly heat the body to confuse the time of death. With the long duration and versatility, it could be an essential tool for a murderer. A casting class is not even necessary to gain it either with the Trifler trait. It seems even better as an SLA, since it would not have somatic or verbal components. You could alter the crime scene right in front of witnesses and investigators. Three uses per day is more than enough for three different murders. Again, assuming that unarmed strike counts for death attack, I really want to make a monk assassin since they would not even need a murder weapon that could incriminate them.
interesting take on prestidigitation.
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Monks make for very interesting assassins due to the fact that they don't require weapons and armor. The rogue or fighter needs to make Sleight of Hand checks to conceal his dagger, and has to take his armor off to pass as a harmless noble or an unremarkable peasant in a tavern, but a monk? A monk could be anyone. The goodwife selling blankets on the street corner? The barefoot beggar clad in rags sitting in the gutter? The courtesan sitting next to you at the banquet? Any one of them could be waiting to Swordfish Style slap your head clear off its shoulders in the surprise round.
Too bad they'd still need to have ranks in Bluff, and monks invariably dump their Int and Cha into the ground.
Too bad they'd still need to have ranks in Bluff, and monks invariably dump their Int and Cha into the ground.
Not invariably, I actually have a high Cha monk who does very well as the party face and still does decent combat damage.
Some of us still roleplay characters, not all of us optimize stats, although it's very difficult to make an effective monk that way due to MAD.
I love the take on Prestidigitation as well. Very cool uses for a very small spell.
If you use RAS instead of PBS you can create a potent Monk easier but it is still easy to make a potent Monk in a PBS especial 20 or 25 arrays.
Not everything needs to be optimized to be Effective.
Bard, for disguise and fascinate and mindcontrol.
Witch, slumber coupdegrace > assassinate, familiar scout.
Urban guide ranger/barbarian, 2hand or natural, trapfinder combat monster.
Alchemist poisoner and a necromancer or diviner wizard could finish the group nicely.
Too bad they'd still need to have ranks in Bluff, and monks invariably dump their Int and Cha into the ground.Not invariably, I actually have a high Cha monk who does very well as the party face and still does decent combat damage.
Some of us still roleplay characters, not all of us optimize stats, although it's very difficult to make an effective monk that way due to MAD.
I love the take on Prestidigitation as well. Very cool uses for a very small spell.
Part of the reason I love rolling stats so much, I can have my best stats in Str/Wis/Dex but my Int and Cha (though still not my highest by a long shot) are still 10 or above usually on at least one of them.
fetchling oracle (dark tapestry, avoiding the "why would you do that you just drove yourself literally insane for nothing" abilities)/shadowdancer: your shadow companion makes for an excellent scout/combat buddy, and you have ALL the darkness.
rogue/magus/arcane trickster: similar vein to the ninja class, but more magical. quite versatile, quite deadly.
I have a Sorcerer build that might work. They appear to just be a Dancer/Courtesan until Fwooom.
Monk(Drunken Master Of Many Styles). That bloody drunkard just gets in the way of everyone. *Thwap!* What just happened to the Magister? Where did the drunkard go for that matter?
weapon adept monk pairs fairly well with staff magus for a trip-focused build. 3rd-4th level monk for maneuver training, maneuver mastery (trip) arcana.
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Hadn't even thought of MoMS but that would definitely work. Gah I want to play this now. Do they still have a drunken master style for monks, and archetype or something similar?
"We don't know who he is, his face changes after every kill. What we do know is he always comes from the shadows, and the last thing his mark experiences is the smell of whiskey and the cold whispers of spellcasting before meeting a flurry of pain and a quick death."
Drunken Master is an archetype, but the closest thing to a Drunken Fighting style is Monkey Style, which frankly sucks IMO.
You'd probably be best off with a mix of Crane, Panther, and maybe Snake or Tiger to simulate the erratic, seemingly reckless movements combined with untouchability and just flavor it as Drunken Fighting.
Drunken Master is an archetype, but the closest thing to a Drunken Fighting style is Monkey Style, which frankly sucks IMO.
You'd probably be best off with a mix of Crane, Panther, and maybe Snake or Tiger to simulate the erratic, seemingly reckless movements combined with untouchability and just flavor it as Drunken Fighting.
crane/snake/panther* seems pretty spot-on for it. maybe add some janni or monkey* for flavor later.
*- actually you could swap these and still be fine.
I would probably go Drunken Master Of Many Styles with Crane/Snake/Panther Styles and focus on Vital Strike or Whirlwind Attack.
Kirin and crane on assassin, put that int to good use...
Part of the reason I love rolling stats so much, I can have my best stats in Str/Wis/Dex but my Int and Cha (though still not my highest by a long shot) are still 10 or above usually on at least one of them.Too bad they'd still need to have ranks in Bluff, and monks invariably dump their Int and Cha into the ground.Not invariably, I actually have a high Cha monk who does very well as the party face and still does decent combat damage.
Some of us still roleplay characters, not all of us optimize stats, although it's very difficult to make an effective monk that way due to MAD.
I love the take on Prestidigitation as well. Very cool uses for a very small spell.
Yeah, the best I could come up with was a monk built like a rogue with decent wisdom, which meant I needed weapon finesse. Still, with monk 4, lore warden 2/ assassin 10, I could get sneak attacks on every flurry if I used feinting flurry. My death attack would be...a bit mediocre since I could only raise my int enough not to get a penalty. Rolling might be best in the long run really. I could possibly go with master spy 8 and fill the rest of the levels with assassin for that bit of theorycrafting on death attack saves I heard about once. I guess I should throw in some rogue levels in there early on to give actual benefits to the finesse style and some more skill points (getting the essential assassin skills is hard without that juicy 8 skill points.).
And yeah, prestidigitation is the place where they dumped every spell effect that got the reaction of: "I've only got 4-6 cantrip slots, and I'm sure as heck not going to spend a real slot on that junk". But a lot of the grunt work of murder requires the kind of specific details that they dumped there. Having it as a silent/still version through SLA is just a juicy bonus.
Could I suggest just taking Ninja instead of Assassin? So far as I can tell the Assassinate Master Ninja trick effectively obsoletes Death Attack (it's 1 round vs 3, has a similar DC based on Cha, and isn't limited to melee) and provides a lot of other goodies that Assassin just doesn't.
Could I suggest just taking Ninja instead of Assassin? So far as I can tell the Assassinate Master Ninja trick effectively obsoletes Death Attack (it's 1 round vs 3, has a similar DC based on Cha, and isn't limited to melee) and provides a lot of other goodies that Assassin just doesn't.
The good thing about the Assassin ability is it's re-use. A ninja cannot target a failed Assassinate target for 24 hours. The Assassin only has to reaccomplish his 3 round study.
But this thread is more about creating "Assassins" without having Ninja, Rogue, or Assassin levels. Ways to kill people professionally that are "outside the box".
A monk duelist might also be an interesting combination. Up to +10 extra damage to each hit in a flurry is somewhat insane. You just need the snake style or hamatula feat. Which I was going to take anyway because I've fallen a bit in love with the image of stabbing someone with your hand. the fact that it is full BAB is also good for getting a good number of hits in. I think I'll switch to this approach instead. Less hassle than the feinting flurry and sneak attack approach I was going for before. Plus, headbands of vast intelligence just seem more useful than a headband of inspired wisdom. I would still go for quite a bit of stealth though.
Cleric 1 /Inquisitor (heritic) of Achaekek with channel smite, guided hand and channeling scourge.
what about a Hexcrafter Magus, with Slumber (as per the witch suggestion above) with a coup de grace consisting of a channeled spell through the sword..?
seems like a witch+ in the assassination arena.