Technically we are allowed to decide how are equipment looks in specifics.
I love the image next to the Emissary Cavalier Archetype with the Haversack they have.
But yeah a Blue orb for a Bag of Holding or Handy Haversack I would allow.
so I can have a dagger that looks like a final fantasy sword?
That's not a knife, NOW THAT's a KNIFE!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Technnically, yes. Would I allow it? No. That is a Full Blade/Grandsword.
Malachi... Brilliant way to solve it.
Part of your delemma is that you have the image of characters you've seen in video games or fantasy art, nearly all of whom are wearing unrealistic clothing and armor. You know what I'm talking about: pictures of Conan the Barbarian, wearing only boots and fur "shorts" in a snow-filled landscape, female fighters wearing chainmail bikinis or breastplates without much chest protection, warriors with impossiblly-sized weapons... Most of these characters also lack basic supplies, like a backpack.
It seems like you are trying to re-create those pictures in your game, which is perfectly fine. Hand-wave any inconsistencies you don't like. Most gaming groups do this to some extent, whether its a character's food consumption, feeding and grooming for mounts/familiars/animal companions, encumberence for EVERY item, or even the lack of latrines/outhouses/bathrooms in a community.
However, if you want "realism" (or as real as a game with goblins and magic can be), understand that those fantasy images and situations we are all familiar with will likely not look the same in your game.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. Whatever your group decides is fine, as long as everyone is having fun.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I never ask questions about where the half-orc Barbarian who fights with an adamantine greatsword carries his backup longbow, 60 arrows, earthbreaker, heavy flail and bec de corbin.
I'm very much afraid his answer will start with "I wearz a kilt, ya see..."
Pay someone to carry your stuff.
Strangely, most fantasy breastplates for women. If it actually is a realistic breastplate design is normally based on Parade Armour. Normally if a woman went into battle she would Bind her chest.
And you do realize that weapons like FFVII's Buster Sword did exist. Though they were normally used as anti-cavalry blades.
On-Topic: if you really don't like the image as was said hardware them away.
I'm currently GMing and my players have to remind ME that their stuff is on their horse or in their room at the inn. This might also be because I'm playing a monk/bard NPC and her current list of gear is as follows: adventurer's outfit, satchel, 2 pouches (bard spell components), "fancy fur cloak" (gift from her PC cousin). That's it.
Frankly I'm with the OP as a player though. I tend to be a pack rat player but I also get very anal about where and how it's all stowed. In the ancient days when I was a player through WHOLE campaigns one of my first big purchases was always a cart. Just 2 wheels to start, but if I got the chance I'd upgrade. My fellow adventurers often made fun of me...except that one time we got caught snowed into a cave and after defeating the goblins and their oozes and giant bugs we were STILL stuck in a mucky cave. Good thing I brought those casks of nuts and beer alongside that wheel of cheese.
That cave must've been the most RANK place in all the Prime before we dug ourselves out thee days later...
We give a free action to shrug out of a backpack just for this reason. It helps with the imagining of the fight.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"The Ugly Backpack," by the way, sounds like it could be a particularly vile pub somewhere.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
"The Ugly Backpack," by the way, sounds like it could be a particularly vile pub somewhere.
*yoink* <-that's the sound of me stealing this idea.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Strangely, most fantasy breastplates for women. If it actually is a realistic breastplate design is normally based on Parade Armour. Normally if a woman went into battle she would Bind her chest.
And you do realize that weapons like FFVII's Buster Sword did exist. Though they were normally used as anti-cavalry blades.
On-Topic: if you really don't like the image as was said hardware them away.
Binding of a woman's breasts was necessarily warrior woman mantra.
Amazons were rumored to have cut off one breast because it got in the way of their Bow.
There are a lot of rumors about women and breasts and combat.
How many women in combat do you believe actually had large, pendulous breasts?
1) silicon wasn't invented.
2) fat ladies would last in combat as long as fat men.
3) the RARE big breasted warrior woman that is recorded in history, rode into combat topless, because she thought it to be a moral booster for her army.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
what the
I try to read this thread but I keep hearing Allen Iverson in my head, all going "Man we're talkin' 'bout BACKPACKS, not the game, not the game, but BACKPACKS."
I always assume that backpacks and haversacks have a quick release strap. Like an army rucksack so whe you have contact you just pull the strap and the bag falls and you pick it up after.
Strangely, most fantasy breastplates for women. If it actually is a realistic breastplate design is normally based on Parade Armour. Normally if a woman went into battle she would Bind her chest.
And you do realize that weapons like FFVII's Buster Sword did exist. Though they were normally used as anti-cavalry blades.
On-Topic: if you really don't like the image as was said hardware them away.
Binding of a woman's breasts was necessarily warrior woman mantra.
Amazons were rumored to have cut off one breast because it got in the way of their Bow.
There are a lot of rumors about women and breasts and combat.
How many women in combat do you believe actually had large, pendulous breasts?
1) silicon wasn't invented.
2) fat ladies would last in combat as long as fat men.
3) the RARE big breasted warrior woman that is recorded in history, rode into combat topless, because she thought it to be a moral booster for her army.
But you have to remember that even A and B cups can get in the way of combat and cause armour to fit wrong.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For the vast majority of my time playing D&D at lower levels (before extra-dimensional spaces became commonplace) all of our characters would, as a free action when combat began, release the cord that held their backpack on and then fight unencumbered with the pack. Then after the battle, they would recover their backpacks and continue on.
On occasion this allowed for clever enemies to purloin a pack or two, which led to fun and games as the "tracker" would try to track them down.
These days we all more or less ignore the backpacks, just as we tend to ignore the presence of familiars, the need for material components for spells and the need to keep track of minor details like how many arrows have been shot.
Is it more fun? No, I don't think so, I think there was plenty of fun in the more gritty feel of the game where "reality mattered", but it's not LESS fun, and it's definitely easier to deal with from a bookkeeping perspective.
But you have to remember that even A and B cups can get in the way of combat and cause armour to fit wrong.
I don't think so, unless you're going for the ridiculous "bosom" armor so popular in fantasy illustrations. There's usually a lot of padding between a person and their plate and mail armor, and a woman's bosom isn't going to cause any more grief than a man's own muscley pectorals at that size, perhaps even less so, given that they're pretty much squishy. And I'd imagine leather armor would be pretty supportive.
And once you've grown up with bosoms, you kinda get used to them. An "A" or "B" cup especially isn't going to be problematic, even shooting a bow.
And I love backpacks and bags. My characters always have them! If little Samwise can kick Shelob's thorax in full kit, my super-cool rogue can run around with a backpack, n/p!
But you have to remember that even A and B cups can get in the way of combat and cause armour to fit wrong.I don't think so, unless you're going for the ridiculous "bosom" armor so popular in fantasy illustrations. There's usually a lot of padding between a person and their plate and mail armor, and a woman's bosom isn't going to cause any more grief than a man's own muscley pectorals at that size, perhaps even less so, given that they're pretty much squishy. And I'd imagine leather armor would be pretty supportive.
And once you've grown up with bosoms, you kinda get used to them. An "A" or "B" cup especially isn't going to be problematic, even shooting a bow.
And I love backpacks and bags. My characters always have them! If little Samwise can kick Shelob's thorax in full kit, my super-cool rogue can run around with a backpack, n/p!
It causes the most problems when fitting the armour to them. But if you are in Hide, Leather, Cloth, and that type it really doesn't cause as much problems. Metal on the other hand is annoying as it normally requires a nice tight fit to be comfortable in battle.
NOTE: I learned Armour & Weapon smithing.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Heh... a bunch of geek guys pontificating on the amazon warrior's breast issues is enough to give me an all-day chuckle...
Women athletes tend to wear "bindings" (now mostly known as "sports bras") not because their boobies get in the way, but because the bouncing around that hypnotizes men so thoroughly actually HURTS after a while. So they tend to try to stop it. There really is very little need for breastplates with boob holders built in. Most women could wear a breastplate sized for them with the same design as one for a man. Even women with larger than normal breasts.
And the whole thing about bow-shooting amazons hacking off a breast is one of the most ridiculed "historical facts" in the history of ... well, history. Women of various breast sizes have competed for generations in archery events without any noticeable breast issues.
This reminds me of the huge uproar a few decades ago when an aging golf superstar publicly said that women can't play golf as well as men because their boobs get in the way...
The bottom line is that all this shows is what boobs men are when it comes to boobs.
And the 2012 "Worst Hipster Post-Rock Band Name" award goes to...
The Ugly Backpack Dilemma!
*CHEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRSSSSS*
@Adamantine_Dragon: The thing is it wouldn't be comfortable enough for extended wear. It would reduce morale rapidly.
@Adamantine_Dragon: The thing is it wouldn't be comfortable enough for extended wear. It would reduce morale rapidly.
Heh, Azaelas, I simply don't consider your opinion about women's breast issues remotely credible in any significant way.
It causes the most problems when fitting the armour to them. But if you are in Hide, Leather, Cloth, and that type it really doesn't cause as much problems. Metal on the other hand is annoying as it normally requires a nice tight fit to be comfortable in battle.NOTE: I learned Armour & Weapon smithing.
I don't think a tight fit means what you think it means, if you're taking an "A" or "B" cup into consideration, and you're smithing functional armor. The fantasy "boob plate" so popular in RPG illustraion, one that takes a woman's bosoms into account in the actual form of the armor is a bad design, given that it guides sword points, lances, spears and arrows right to the wearer's heart. Also, entirely unneccesary, given that bosoms squish up a treat in restrictive clothing, and are much more comfortable in "action" that way.
Plate armor is the way it is largely out of necessity. The layout and articulations of the plates are the best solutions the designers could come up with to balance mobility with protection. Once you’ve padded it out and left space for movement, you’ve all but erased the figure of the person inside.
NOTE: I have boobs. :P
@Adamantine_Dragon: The thing is it wouldn't be comfortable enough for extended wear. It would reduce morale rapidly.Heh, Azaelas, I simply don't consider your opinion about women's breast issues remotely credible in any significant way.
What credentials are required to be an armor breast interface expert?
US Army field kit for body armor is effectively unisex, but is cusomized with padding.
Prior to making custom-fitted armor, most body armor would be unisex as well. The fitting issue isn't boobage, it's usually that shoulders and ribs are a mismatch between men and women - which is why US Army body armor is designed the way it is - there are four basic sizes, it cinches tight with straps, and the plates are slid into pockets in the Kevlar.
Sadly, body armor is right up there with parkas in terms of "sexxay sexxay clothes."
NOTE: I have boobs. :P
Well noted Pippi. While I don't, I do have a wife and daughter who each have a pair, and I have done enough shopping and outfitting of athletic gear to have learned a bit about boobiness and how it affects active lifestyles and gear choices.
It might surprise some to learn that several nations have women serving in active combat who wear combat armor today, and that armor is not built in "with boob" and "without boob" styles.
Pippi, your point about the armor guiding the point of a sword is very astute. This, in fact, is one reason that many historical suits of royal armor have been identified as not being realistic in combat due to how the design of them would create additional risk for the wearer.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What credentials are required to be an armor breast interface expert?@Adamantine_Dragon: The thing is it wouldn't be comfortable enough for extended wear. It would reduce morale rapidly.Heh, Azaelas, I simply don't consider your opinion about women's breast issues remotely credible in any significant way.
I dunno, but where can I apply for the job?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Regular 2gp backpacks in my game are the old timey equivalent of cheap Jansport bags. They don't feature quick-release anything. It's basically a durable cloth or soft leather sack with shoulder straps and a side or back pocket for small items. In some areas the common backpack might be made of wicker with a hinged lid held on with twisted reeds but, for 2gp, a standard backpack gets the job done but it's nothing special.
Masterwork backpacks are what you'd find at REI. They've got the fancy, sturdy frames, additional pockets and multiple cords for securing large items. There are no Fastex clips, but items might be held on with buttoned loops for easy retrieval.
My players don't drop their bags in combat, and I don't penalize them for it. Whether the fighter's dual-wielding flails with a wicker basket on his back or the wizard's wearing a framed pack the size of a small refrigerator, I just let it go. The only time it's an issue is when the players are somewhere carting all their gear would make them look like a bunch of knobs, like at a royal ball.
Busy marketplaces are also a good reason to not go wading through town with a ton of crap tied to your back. Pickpockets love those EZ-steal releases lining your backpack up and down like gift ribbons.
What I am referring to is the fact that the interior of the armour must be padded differently to provide long term comfort in standard wear.
If the person can't wear the armour for 16+ Hours a day without feeling major discomfort the armour needs remade.
I am NOT referring to the asinine Boob-Plate of fantasy cliche. I am referring to what any self-respecting Artisan Blacksmith (Anyone skilled at forging and Manipulating Metal) takes into account.
Yes, A woman can put on a standard Male Breastplate and be comfortable for a while. BUT she suffer the same problems a man has with Half-Plate. It isn't designed to fit her basic shape.
For comfort:
Does it have to be form fitted to the person individually? No.
Does it have to be fitted to their basic shape? Yes.
This is true for both Men and Women. Equally.
Oh my god you guys are so far out in left field that you're actually out in the parking lot.
Azaelas, if you are saying that armor has to be fitted with internal padding to be comfortable, I would certainly agree, but I would also consider that to be self-evident and to be completely immaterial to any discussion about boobiness vs non-boobiness.
Armor needs to be fitted to the individual with padding.
No more needs to be said. There are no more significant challenges to padding the boobified than the boobless. It's just the padding itself that is adjusted.
Which begs the question of if boobiness or lack thereof is not an issue for wearing armor...
... why'd you make an issue of it?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My experience is on teaching Western Sword as a martial arts instructor, some work in ARMA, some work in the SCA, etc, etc.
Most armor isn't quite unisex, but the differences have more to do with the shoulder width of the yoke and rib circumference, with a bit of hip differential.
Shoulder width: Prior to articulated solid piece armor, your armor largely rests on your shoulders and upper back for weight distribution. You wear a belt around chainmail because by cinching it tight, you can also make it ride your hips to distribute the load better. This is important for mobility.
Rib circumference: You want the right amount of space around the ribs so that your arms can hang down "comfortably", without it being so tight that you lose lateral and rotational flexibility.
Armor for males tends to have wider shoulders, and wider rib circumference than for females. Armor for women tends to have wider hip plates and a greater willingness to put the weight on the hips than on the shoulders.
A woman wearing male armor tends to have the mobility of her arms hindered if it's rigid metal, and her overall mobility hindered if it's chainmail or "draping" armor like scale male.
Her boobs aren't the problem. Her shoulders (and reduced upper body strength) is.
In modern US Infantry practice, women are showing up with nearly quadruple the calf, knee, hamstring and back injuries that their male counterparts do, because running around in that kit for 10-14 hours per day for 80% of your days on an 18 month deployment is hard on the body - and harder on women than men due to lower muscle mass.
(I can usually identify a guy who's been in the infantry by the way he stands or walks. There's a posture you pick up where when you're not moving you're trying to alternately stretch and relax the muscles in your legs while expending the least energy possible because you're wearing 30+ lbs of body armor and 100+ lbs of batteries, radios, computers, a rifle, extra clips, three days worth of rations, a canteen and...)
What does this have to do with ugly backpacks?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oh my god you guys are so far out in left field that you're actually out in the parking lot.
Not really, I'm just doing my best to keep abreast of a titillating subject here. I'm not trying to be a boob, I just want to be sure this doesn't get udderly ridiculous.
Not really, I'm just doing my best to keep abreast of a titillating subject here. I'm not trying to be a boob, I just want to be sure this doesn't get udderly ridiculous.
Oh my god you guys are so far out in left field that you're actually out in the parking lot.
BOO THIS MAN
BOO HIM*HISS*
Oh my god you guys are so far out in left field that you're actually out in the parking lot.
It's easier to get the winning home-run ball from out here?
If the person can't wear the armour for 16+ Hours a day without feeling major discomfort the armour needs remade.
If you can make armor that can be comfortably worn by anyone for 16+ hours, you win. I don't even like wearing my normal clothes that long. :P
Anyway, I don't think we're going to talk either of us out of our opinions. I've pretty much covered my bases, so... cheers! :)
And bags for the win! Yay!
Not really, I'm just doing my best to keep abreast of a titillating subject here. I'm not trying to be a boob, I just want to be sure this doesn't get udderly ridiculous.
Oh my god you guys are so far out in left field that you're actually out in the parking lot.
If I had a heart that would have hurt.
Not really, I'm just doing my best to keep abreast of a titillating subject here. I'm not trying to be a boob, I just want to be sure this doesn't get udderly ridiculous.
Oh my god you guys are so far out in left field that you're actually out in the parking lot.BOO THIS MAN
BOO HIM
*HISS*
Look Lamontius, I'm not expecting you to be my bosom buddy or anything. I hope you got that off your chest anyway. Let's not get into a tit-for-tat thing here, I'll end up nipple and diming you to death.
...I'll end up nipple and diming you to death.
I was going to let most of your punning go, but BOO to this! Very much BOO to this! :P
Look Lamontius, I'm not expecting you to be my bosom buddy or anything. I hope you got that off your chest anyway. Let's not get into a tit-for-tat thing here, I'll end up nipple and diming you to death.Not really, I'm just doing my best to keep abreast of a titillating subject here. I'm not trying to be a boob, I just want to be sure this doesn't get udderly ridiculous.
Oh my god you guys are so far out in left field that you're actually out in the parking lot.BOO THIS MAN
BOO HIM
*HISS*
Okay now that was a home run
On-Topic: Backpacks can come in a variety of styles especially when you look throughout history.
Might I suggest you research the old Napoleonic Era Holster Pack. It makes modern Military Ruck Sacks look primitive. And it hardly moved when you moved. Though that could be do to it having 15+ straps.
...I'll end up nipple and diming you to death.I was going to let most of your punning go, but BOO to this! Very much BOO to this! :P
Yeah, I suppose I deserve some ribbing on that one. Sort of a grammar malfunction. I hope you can forgive me one little nip-slip there...
Threads Gone Wild
I usually envision the Handy Haversack to be like a messenger bag, something that you strap over your chest and it rests at your hip or something, and since it only weighs 5 lbs regardless of what's in it, it's not like it's gonna encumber you or anything.
I usually envision the Handy Haversack to be like a messenger bag, something that you strap over your chest and it rests at your hip or something, and since it only weighs 5 lbs regardless of what's in it, it's not like it's gonna encumber you or anything.
You do know Messenger Bags evolved from real life Haversacks right...
So your envisioning is correct.
Yeah sweet I would love for my character to have a manpurse
Man, just wear the backpack
One-strap it.
I would no-strap it if I could.