RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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In addition to the recent FAQs, today's blog features a couple of new changes.
One is a new ki ability.
The other is a change in price for the Amulet of Mighty Fists.
So... have we seen enough changes to the monk that players might need to rebuild? Having never built a monk myself, I don't know. But I thought the question should be brought up.
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I was about to start this thread. It would certainly be nice to get that 1000 gp back from the Amulet I bought, but I don't think I'd make any other changes (although a Keen'd temple sword could be fun to flurry with...).
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Heh. As soon as I saw the blog I knew this was going to come up.
My thoughts:
1. No rebuild. The TWF/FoB thing specifically said that people could rebuild at the time of the old ruling, but that if they did and regretted it later, they were out of luck.
2. The new Ki ability doesn't require a rebuild, because it's just a new Ki ability. It doesn't need to be purchased, from what I can see.
3. Players should, however, get the price difference refunded. They didn't get cheaper in the game world, so the price drop isn't a question of timing.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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1) As Patrick pointed out, there is no rebuild. I mentioned at the time of the initial change that you could either have patience until it was further clarified and not rebuild, or you could rebuild but there would not be a second rebuild.
2) The new Ki Ability needs no clarification or rebuild. It just adds to the PC when he/she is 7th level. It is similar to 4th level monk under the special column on page 58 of the CRB that reads Ki Pool (Magic). Just pencil in Ki Pool (cold iron & silver) next to 7th level.
3) Yes, you may be refunded the 1,000 gps. Just have a GM note it on your next Chronicle.
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What if monks didn't rebuild before. Can they do so now?Why would you want to? The "new" ruling is the way it worked before. People were rebuilding because of the interim ruling, which was essentially thrown out.
Well, some of us may have "hedged" our builds due to eight months of uncertainty over whether our characters worked or not. Personally, once it became clear that none of my local group and none of my PaizoCon GMs had any trouble with my single-weapon flurrier, I made some tweaks to "de-hedge," so I'm all set.
-Matt
I would like to request that Mike considers granting anyone who bought a Striking Bell of Smiting (or whatever that item is on page 319 of UE) the money back, as it is now obsolete for monks after level 7. Possibly at all levels, but I would have to check the price versus the PFS rules.
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And potion of magic fang cost the same as oils of magic weapon. Neither of these facts change the logic behind the request.
It is part of the hit Monks take for being a Monk. If you want a magic weapon, buy a monk weapon that is enhanced.
I see no reason why amulet of mighty fists should be made always available
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If you want a magic weapon, buy a monk weapon that is enhanced.
I see no reason why amulet of mighty fists should be made always available
This was kind of what I thought when the request was made. If the amulet was strictly a monk weapon, and they didn't already have the same access to magic weapons that other classes had, I could see making an exception. However, monks do have the same access to enchanted weapons as everyone else. And, they can select weapons that apply to FoB as well, so they are not out of luck. Can a justification be made for making it always available? Sure, but I suggest that much of the same logic could be used to justify adding additional items that are "essential" to other classes as well. Personally, I'm not a fan of exceptions-based rules, so the fewer we have the better. Just my 2cp
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I don't really see why the amulet of might fists needs to be always available. You might just as easily say that pearls of power should be always available because they are so essential for wizards, and that stat belts/headbands should be always available because they're basically essential for any build.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Meh. By the time you can afford it you can get it from your faction anyway.
Not really. An AoMF +1 (either 4,000 or 5,000 GP) means you need 18 fame to be able to buy this from your faction. This means you're going to be at least level 4 (and possibly higher if you've missed the odd faction mission along the way). If you're a monk, with very little in the way of other demands on your purse, it's quite easy to have the gold before you have the fame (especially if you've played up once or twice).
Similarly, for the next level (AoMF +2, or Amulet of Agile Fists +1) you'll need a fame of 31 at the new pricing of 16,000GP (rather than the 36 you needed before when the cost was 20,000GP). Again, it's not too hard to have the funds available well before you meet the fame requirements.
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Meh. By the time you can afford it you can get it from your faction anyway.
How so? At 4,000 gp, you need 18 fame. That's a minimum of 9 scenarios, but more likely ~11-12. If you play your first 8 scenarios at tier 1-2, you'll have 4,000 gp and clearly won't have 18 fame. It's far more likely that you'll have more than 4,000 gp before you get to 18 fame.
edit: ninja'd
Monks don't have to buy a cloak of resistance. ;)
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Monks are not being forced to use only their fists, especially with the flurry change. If they were forced to only use their fists, it would make a lot more sense to have the amulet always available.
Fighters aren't forced to use weapons and casters aren't forced to use their spells. Making an AoMF +1 always available doesn't hurt any other class or build and makes an unarmed fighter more "normal" within PFS.
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Monks are not being forced to use only their fists, especially with the flurry change. If they were forced to only use their fists, it would make a lot more sense to have the amulet always available.Fighters aren't forced to use weapons and casters aren't forced to use their spells. Making an AoMF +1 always available doesn't hurt any other class or build and makes an unarmed fighter more "normal" within PFS.
Making it always available helps more than just Monks though.
Every animal bearing class can then purchase them so their pet gets magic claws.
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Monks are not being forced to use only their fists, especially with the flurry change. If they were forced to only use their fists, it would make a lot more sense to have the amulet always available.Fighters aren't forced to use weapons and casters aren't forced to use their spells. Making an AoMF +1 always available doesn't hurt any other class or build and makes an unarmed fighter more "normal" within PFS.Making it always available helps more than just Monks though.
Every animal bearing class can then purchase them so their pet gets magic claws.
So monks can't get magic fists before someone's class feature can?
I understand that animal companion are better than monks, but monks shouldn't be forced to use a kama if they want a magic weapon before they get 16pp. Wouldn't that more than undo the cost change to AoMF?
We have a no crafting except for gunslingers and alchemists rule.
If people are concerned about boosting summoners et al., can't we simply say that AoMF+1 are always available for monks?
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Monks are not being forced to use only their fists, especially with the flurry change. If they were forced to only use their fists, it would make a lot more sense to have the amulet always available.Fighters aren't forced to use weapons and casters aren't forced to use their spells. Making an AoMF +1 always available doesn't hurt any other class or build and makes an unarmed fighter more "normal" within PFS.Making it always available helps more than just Monks though.
Every animal bearing class can then purchase them so their pet gets magic claws.
So as soon as they get 4,000 gp, they have the option to have their strongest class feature (IUS or Pet or Eidolon) bypass DR/Magic and hit incorporeal beings. Why is that a bad thing when a character who focuses on weapons can do it at 2,000 gp and a caster doesn't need to worry about it (w/ channel neg or spells)?
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Monks are not being forced to use only their fists, especially with the flurry change. If they were forced to only use their fists, it would make a lot more sense to have the amulet always available.Fighters aren't forced to use weapons and casters aren't forced to use their spells. Making an AoMF +1 always available doesn't hurt any other class or build and makes an unarmed fighter more "normal" within PFS.
I acknowledge that it doesn't hurt the people who don't use the item when it becomes always available; however, making something always available just because a class believes they need it to function has little precedent.
I'm of the opinion that any melee class needs a stat belt in order to function well, so maybe that's the next thing to be always available. How about pearls of power? Spellcasters are vastly improved with those, so perhaps the first level version of those should be always available.
The fame rule is there for a reason, and there is little reason to make the amulet always available when monks have other viable alternatives while they accumulate fame.
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The arguement is not that monks need them to function. It's that they are the equivolent of a +1 weapon for a monk. Fighters don't need +1 swords to function.
Please don't straw man this discussion.
A +1 Kama, Nunchaku, Shuriken, Staff, et. al. are also +1 weapons that utilize a Monk's flurry of blows.
You want a +1 weapon, as a monk, prior to getting 18 PP, then use a monk weapon.
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The arguement is not that monks need them to function. It's that they are the equivolent of a +1 weapon for a monk. Fighters don't need +1 swords to function.
Please don't straw man this discussion.
First of all, that's not what a straw man is. If you are going to call what I said a fallacy, call it a slippery slope.
Secondly, if fighters don't need +1 swords to function, why do monks need an enhancement bonus on their unarmed strikes to function?
Lastly, Andrew hit the nail on the head. Monks are not being forced to use only their fists. You have options. You can use oil of magic weapon or magic fang. You can use a regular old +1 weapon. There is no requirement for the amulet to be always available because of these options, and now you don't even need two of these weapons.
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Even with their reduced cost, amulets of might fists cost nearly twice as much as any other piece of always-available equipment (save some items made of special materials). The always available list is there to give characters of all levels a list of relatively inexpensive items regardless of Fame. I'm not keen on making exceptions regarding where the line is drawn in terms of what's on the list and what isn't. The always available list has served the campaign very well for 5 years and the change in price of one wondrous item doesn't necessitate the reassessment of the list.