**stuff** I also have a build I could share that I've been avoiding playing for quite some time because I don't want to have to play it according to different sets of rules at different tables just because it makes some GMs go red in the face and drop their monocles.)The "Complicated Character Builds and Legality" thread has sparked my interest as to what people think are particularly complicated builds, and as Andrew Christian put it:
**stuff** We have yet to have any build posted that shows a complexity of the level being described.
So put on your thinking caps, loosen your belts ('cause tomorrow is Thanksgiving for us U.S.ians (that's Us-ians)) and post your favorite played or unplayed complicated build!*
*Bait for mousetraps = cheese if you didn't get the joke.
I thought you were referring to the old game Mousetrap. Quite appropriate for this discussion.
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And just to start things off; I'll post my current baby, a Magic Missile Specialist (presently level 4, but soon to be cooler!)
Human
Level 1: Wizard (Evocation school, Admixture subschool(UM))
Feat: Spell focus (Evocation): (+1 Evocation DCs)--Replaces scribe scroll
Feat: Spell Specialization (UM) (Magic Missile): Cast MM at Caster Level (CL) +2
Feat: Toppling Spell (UM): [Force] spells that do damage/move opponent, or they fail their saving throw grant you a free CMB check to trip using CL + Int/Wis/Cha in place of your CMB.
Trait: Magical Lineage: Pick a spell, when you cast it with metamagic, treat the final level as 1 level lower.
Trait: Precocious Spellcaster (Taldor book) (Magic missile & whatever): Pick a cantrip and a 1st level spell, cast them at +1 CL
Arcane Bond: Familiar.
So at level 1 I'm casting magic missile at CL=4 with 2 missiles that trip with CMB=8 (Int 19, CL for MM=4), each does 1d4+1 and one does another +1 from Evocation school.
Lvl 2: Sorcerer (Tattooed)(Inner Sea Magic) Orc bloodline (Orcs of Golarion book)
Varisian Tattoo (Evocation): +1 CL for evocation spells. (includes Magic Missile)
Tattoo Familiar: He's a tatoo now, so he's safer!
Orc bloodline: +1 damage per die from damaging spells.
I get 4 more magic missiles per day from the Sorcerer level, all of which are now CL=5, so 3 missiles, doing 1d4+2 each +1 overall and tripping with CMB=9 for the wizard ones, 6 for the sorcerer ones.
Lvl 3: Back to wizard, take Heighten Spell, this will get used later. Wizard missiles are now CL=6.
Lvl 4: Wizard 3.
Lvl 5: Wizard 4. Take Evolved Familiar (Skilled:+8 UMD). This will get used at level 7. Buy an Elemental Spell (Acid) Metamagic Rod.
Lvl 6: Wizard level 5 Bonus Feat: Rime Spell (UM): Cold Descriptor spells that deal cold damage to enemies entangle for # of rounds = spell level.
Now you memorize heightened, rime magic missiles at level 3 (or 2 if you want them to be toppling as well), use the metamagic rod to make half the damage acid; and then use admixture to change the acid damage to cold, giving the spell the [cold] descriptor. You've got 5 missiles at a time by this point, and they do force/cold damage, can trip opponents, and entangle them for 2 or 3 rounds!
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Odea, could you walk me through how your 1st level wizard / 1st level sorcerer is casting CL 5 magic missiles?
I'm seeing CL4 for the wizard magic missiles, and CL 2 for the sorcerer magic missiles.
Without a FAQ post, I'd rule that the Orc bloodline only applies to spells cast as a sorcerer. (If you had Druid levels, would you expect the Orc bloodline to add a point of damage to those spells as well?)
Ha! That’s very entertaining.
I seem to remember that somewhere there is as ability that lets you cast spells off Scrolls (or maybe Wands?) at your own caster level. Thus you would almost never run out!
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the sorcerer level gives varisian tattoo +1 CL on evocation spells.
Spell spec doesn't care about what class gives you the ability, so you'll get the +2 on sorc cast MMs also.
At level 2 you're casting MM like so.
Wizard: Standard action CL 3, 3 missiles, toppling - CMB 3+ stat
Sor: Full-Round Action CL 3, 3 missiles, Toppling - CMB 3+ stat
All the CL increases are from Feats, and thus independent of Class.
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Without a FAQ post, I'd rule that the Orc bloodline only applies to spells cast as a sorcerer. (If you had Druid levels, would you expect the Orc bloodline to add a point of damage to those spells as well?)
Ooh! Ooh! I know this one!
Iammars shows us how it's done. I'd have honestly guessed the opposite to be the case.
Thanks Iammars! :)
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I'm doing similar buy with cross-blooded (was going to have both that and tattooed, but I'm of the opinion RAW that you can't)
Draconic(gold) / orc
Admixture Evoker Wizard
Wayang spell hunter, Magical Lineage: Burning Arc
2nd level slots, empowered
3rd level slots dazing
4th level slots quickened
5th level slots empowered, dazing (not many of these, honestly I'll probably just be casting 5th level spells lol.)
I really should put together a cheat sheet for this guy lol
Hrm... Probably not "enough" for this thread, but at 4th level I have +8 instead of +4 to overcome SR of outsiders.
.....
Truly nefarious.
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Truly nefarious.Hrm... Probably not "enough" for this thread, but at 4th level I have +8 instead of +4 to overcome SR of outsiders.
.....
Indeed. Also, I can charge 80ft, speak both Infernal AND Abyssal, and have resist 5 to three different energy types.
Totally broken, amirite?
I don't think even Kyle Baird could stop you!
Human Sorcerer with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, Crossblooded Orc/Draconic(One of the acid ones) who always carries acid as a focus for acid splash.
In point blank range, 1d3+4 damage. Best acid splash ever. And no SR! At level 1!
Later, you can stack acid arrows to no end. Take magical lineage (Acid Arrow) by taking the "Extra Traits" (or whatever it's called) feat at level 5 and you may even eventually be able to quicken some! And again, no SR! Stacking acid arrows! You can empower and maximize them in higher spell slots too! (Uh, the maximized one has 2 ticks left, the empowered one has 1 tick left, and the normal one has 3 ticks along with the quickened one that also has 3 ticks).
Here's the kicker. Get an elemental rod so you can change the damage type. It doesn't change the actual descriptor of the spell (although good luck convincing an uninformed GM of that), so the Draconic still applies for the +1 damage per die you're getting.
-----------------------------------------------
Let's see, what else?
Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer. Get Improved Familiar eventually to get some kind of salt mephit. Whenever something is invisible, cast see invisibility on the salt mephit so that it can use its glitterdust ability. Shared spells, haha.
Give your salt mephit the Evolved Familiar feat and give it Skilled (Use Magic Device). Then give it a wand of Ill Omen. Get Persistent Spell. Have your mephit stay on your shoulder.
Move around having your mephit using Ill Omen on things before you cast a persistent spell as a standard action (with your +1 DC for being arcane bloodline) because of your Metamagic Mastery bloodline power. Enemy gets to roll 3 times for saves (if they can be affected by mind affecting, though, because Ill Omen is mind affecting).
Give your familiar a ring of spell storing just for fun.
Give it a wand of dimension door. The caster can't do anything after dimension door, but you're not the caster, the familiar is.
...level dip in dual cursed oracle? Ill omen + persistent + misfortune = roll 4 times for saving?
Hopefully that's enough to confuse most people.
Odea, could you walk me through how your 1st level wizard / 1st level sorcerer is casting CL 5 magic missiles?
I'm seeing CL4 for the wizard magic missiles, and CL 2 for the sorcerer magic missiles.
Without a FAQ post, I'd rule that the Orc bloodline only applies to spells cast as a sorcerer. (If you had Druid levels, would you expect the Orc bloodline to add a point of damage to those spells as well?)
First, thank you iammrs for the link to the FAQ.
Caster level 1 Wizard, Caster level 1 Sorcerer:
Precocious Spellcaster = +1 CL for 1 level 0 spell and 1 level 1 spell (Magic missile)
Spell Specialization = +2 CL Magic Missile (as Benrislove pointed out I was "doing it wrong TM" and this doesn't add to the trip attempt =( )
Varisian Tattoo (Evocation) = +1 CL for all Evocation spells (including Magic missile)
Total = +4 CL to Magic Missiles.
Wizard CL 1 +4 = CL 5 Trip CMB 8 (CL 3 + 4 Int)
Sorcerer CL 1 +4 = CL 5 Trip CMB 4 (CL 3 + 1 Cha) (not 6 as prev. stated)
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Odea, could you walk me through how your 1st level wizard / 1st level sorcerer is casting CL 5 magic missiles?
I'm seeing CL4 for the wizard magic missiles, and CL 2 for the sorcerer magic missiles.
Without a FAQ post, I'd rule that the Orc bloodline only applies to spells cast as a sorcerer. (If you had Druid levels, would you expect the Orc bloodline to add a point of damage to those spells as well?)
First, thank you iammrs for the link to the FAQ.
Caster level 1 Wizard, Caster level 1 Sorcerer:
Precocious Spellcaster = +1 CL for 1 level 0 spell and 1 level 1 spell (Magic missile)
Spell Specialization = +2 CL Magic Missile (as Benrislove pointed out I was "doing it wrong TM" and this doesn't add to the trip attempt =( )
Varisian Tattoo (Evocation) = +1 CL for all Evocation spells (including Magic missile)
Total = +4 CL to Magic Missiles.Wizard CL 1 +4 = CL 5 Trip CMB 8 (CL 3 + 4 Int)
Sorcerer CL 1 +4 = CL 5 Trip CMB 4 (CL 3 + 1 Cha) (not 6 as prev. stated)
lol certainly didn't mean it like that, but I discovered it when I was double checking everything for my burning arc build and got a little sad because it wasn't going to help wit SR :(
Disappointed with this thread. I expect better out of all of you. No mention of weapon cords or spring-loaded wrist sheaths yet?
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Gunslinger 7
Let's assume the cheesiest Gunslinger possible. We will assume he follows the WPL Table (23,500 GP by Level 7).
(Also, I am too lazy to calculate critical hits as well as the progressively increasing chance to misfire per shot. Someone else smarter than me can do the math to factor those both in.)
He buys five (!), Masterwork Double-Barreled Pistols, one +1 Double-Barreled Pistol, and a Belt of Incredible Dexterity. He also gets a Weapon Cord (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/weapon-and-ar mor-accessories#TOC-Weapon-Cord). For the purposes of this theoretical character, we'll assume he finds some way to get Haste cast on him consistently (probably because a smart Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard/Summoner was in the party casting Haste, which there SHOULD be by Level 7!).
For his feats, he takes Quick Draw, Rapid Reload (Double-Barreled Pistols), Rapid Shot, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and Point-Blank Shot. I'm gonna assume that he foregoes taking Rapid Reload (other firearm) for his starting Firearm. Instead, he toughs it out until he can get a Masterwork Double-Barreled Pistol. He also does not take Precise Shot, saying to his allies “I’m going against Touch AC, it’ll be fine!”
Now here's where the magic begins.
The Double-Barreled Pistol Gunslinger has five Double-Barreled Pistols holstered and loaded at any given time. Thanks to the Quick Draw feat, drawing them is always a Free Action. He also always has a +1 Double-Barreled Pistol in his Right Hand, attached with a Weapon Cord.
During the first turn, he draws both guns. (This is a free action.)
The character declares he is taking the Two-Weapon Penalty, the Rapid Shot Penalty, the Double-Barreled Shot Penalty, and that he's full attacking. We also assume he's within 20 feet of his target.
He fires the Pistol in his Left Hand. This is his normal attack for the turn. (Two shots so far. Two at highest BAB, with +1 to damage.)
He fires the Pistol in his Right Hand, (the +1 Pistol) and declares this as the weapon he gained the extra Two-Weapon Fighting Attack from. (Four shots so far. Two at highest BAB, with +1 to damage. Two at highest BAB, normal.)
He drops the Pistol in his Right Hand, (the +1 Pistol). (This is a free action)
He reloads the Pistol in his Left Hand using his Right Hand. (This is a free action)
He attacks again using the Pistol in his Left Hand. He declares this as the extra attack he got from Rapid Shot. (Six shots so far. Two at highest BAB, with +1 to damage. Four at highest BAB, normal.)
He reloads the Pistol in his Left Hand using his Right Hand. (This is a free action)
He attacks again using the Pistol in his Left Hand. He declares this as the extra attack he got from Haste. (Eight shots so far. Two at highest BAB, with +1 to damage. Six at highest BAB, normal.)
He reloads the Pistol in his Left Hand using his Right Hand. (This is a free action)
He attacks again, using the Pistol in his Left Hand. He declares this as the extra attack he got from Improved Two Weapon Fighting, so he takes a -5 penalty. (Ten shots so far. Two at highest BAB, with +1 to damage. Six at highest BAB, normal. Two at low BAB, normal.)
He drops the Pistol in his Left Hand. (This is a free action.)
He recovers the Pistol in his Right Hand. (This is a swift action.)
He reloads the Pistol in his Right Hand, (the +1 Pistol) using his Left Hand. (This is a free action)
He attacks again, using the Pistol in his Right Hand, (the +1 Pistol). He declares this as the extra attack he got from a high Base Attack Bonus, so he takes a -5 penalty. (Twelve shots so far. Two at highest BAB, with +1 to damage. Six at highest BAB, normal. Two at low BAB, normal. Two at low BAB, with +1 to damage.)
Overall, that is four shots that do 1d8+8 damage, and eight shots that do 1d8+7 damage.
His base to-hit is +6 (+6 from DEX, +7 from BAB, +1 from Weapon Enchantment, +1 from Haste, +1 from Point-Blank Shot, -4 for dual wielding, -4 from double-barreled penalty, -2 from rapid shot). He’d also take a -4 from someone standing in Melee with the enemy.
The target Touch AC is 12. With a +6 modifier, that hits 75% of the time, and 50% of the time on the low BAB attacks.
So the DPR calculations look like this:
(4.5+8)*(2)*(.75) + (4.5+7)*(6)*(.75) + (4.5+7)*(2)*(.50)+(4.5+8)*(2)*(.50) = 94.5
Pretty decent, I think.
OK, OK fine. Scrollmaster/Bloatmage with weapon-corded scrolls and spring-loaded wrist sheaths with beef jerky.
I once stored a weapon cord in a spring-loaded wrist sheath just so that as a swift action I could have ready an item that would allow me to recover a weapon as a swift action.
I tried tying a weapon cord to a dagger and then placing it in a wrist sheath, but I kept on failing to catch the weapon and then having to spend another swift action to pick it up again.
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Yo Dawg, I once stored a weapon cord in a spring-loaded wrist sheath just so that as a swift action I could have ready an item that would allow me to recover a weapon as a swift action.
I tried tying a weapon cord to a dagger and then placing it in a wrist sheath, but I kept on failing to catch the weapon and then having to spend another swift action to pick it up again.
Fixed.
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I think I'm going to pick up a fighting fan on a weapon cord for my Dervish Dancing ninja. Feint with the fan as a move action to get my sneak attack, drop it so I can attack with Dervish Dance, swift action to pick it back up.
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zean,
Well, that's a PC who has invested six feats in a particular direction, under ideal circumstances (a bad guy at CR7 who just stands there, within 20 feet, without any DR or serious defenses). By all rights, any character should shine under those circumstances. (A 7th-level paladin, under the effects of haste, going up against a conveniently adjacent dragon, with six feats designed to increase damage, is going to do a lot more than 90 points.)
The probability that a character could fire 12 times without once misfiring (a 1-in-10 chance) is 28.25% .
It also costs him about 144 gp, per round, to do that damage. After 4 or 5 combats, he's pretty much eaten through his wealth for that adventure.
But yep, that's cool.
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Level 1
Human Magus
10 Str, 18 Dex, 12 Con, 14 Int, 10 wis, 12 cha
Feats: Spell Focus + Weapon Finesse
Precocious Spellcaster (Arcane Mark, Shocking Grasp), Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp)
Lvl 2 X-Blooded Sorceror, Tatooed/Orc bloodlines, Grants Varisian Tatoo (Evocation)
Lvl 3 Magus 2- Spell Specialization (Shocking Grasp)
Lvl 4 Magus 3-
lvl 5 Magus 4- Intense Spells
Weapon- Spellstoring Rapier. by level 3 Sor Shock grasps are a Cl 5, while Magus ones are at Cl6. Of course it takes until lvl 5 to pick up intense spells and then they do 8d6+8. You can store one in the rapier and unload it for a massive attack of 17d6+16. There's still some room to play around with this.
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Hulk Build
Human Alchemist (Rage Chemist)
16 Str 14 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha
Feats: Toughness, Iron Will
Traits: Accelerated Drinker, Indomitable Faith
Lvl 2 Alchemist Discovery: Feral Mutagen
Lvl 3 Barbarian 1: Power Attack
Ok for this build it assumes 50g very frequently being spent on enlarge person. When in combat, drink rnd 1 Enlarge Person + Mutagen
Rnd 2 Rage. Str=28 at level 3, 3 Natural attacks. Nuff Said.
I have a build that's getting to the point where I don't know just how it'll work. It's an unarmored, weapon-wielding, multiclassed monk who is looking at taking Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and later Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. When this PC full-attacks, I have yet to find an answer by RAW or RAI regarding what happens.
Anybody know?
-Matt
P.S. For Kyle's sake, this PC has a spring-loaded wrist sheath for when other PCs feel like lending me scrolls of Breath of Life to hang onto. Does that count?
I think I'm going to pick up a fighting fan on a weapon cord for my Dervish Dancing ninja. Feint with the fan as a move action to get my sneak attack, drop it so I can attack with Dervish Dance, swift action to pick it back up.
You're trying too hard. The fighting fan is a terrible weapon, and Improved Feint is a terrible feat, just like Combat Expertise. Has there ever been a PC crazy enough to use a fighting fan, anyways? Heck, feinting is a bad idea in general. Just spend some ki and vanish instead.
-Not like Matt would really know this.
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Level 1
Human Magus10 Str, 18 Dex, 12 Con, 14 Int, 10 wis, 12 cha
Feats: Spell Focus + Weapon Finesse
Precocious Spellcaster (Arcane Mark, Shocking Grasp), Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp)Lvl 2 X-Blooded Sorceror, Tatooed/Orc bloodlines, Grants Varisian Tatoo (Evocation)
Lvl 3 Magus 2- Spell Specialization (Shocking Grasp)
Lvl 4 Magus 3-
lvl 5 Magus 4- Intense Spells
Weapon- Spellstoring Rapier. by level 3 Sor Shock grasps are a Cl 5, while Magus ones are at Cl6. Of course it takes until lvl 5 to pick up intense spells and then they do 8d6+8. You can store one in the rapier and unload it for a massive attack of 17d6+16. There's still some room to play around with this.
I assume your doing X-Blood and Tatto'd Sorcerer Arctypes ?
I am annoyed about it BTW ... but I found out it doesnt workCrossblood is not compatable with any Archtype (IIRC) because it alters everything (the inclusion of an option = Alteration)- thus stopping it from mixing with anything ... I agree its a VERY Strict Reading ...and IMHO it should work..... and I found out Herolab allows it ... but ya
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I should also point out that spell spec only works for "all level-variable effects of the spell". Meaning that your actual caster level isn't treated as higher for the trip attempts, concentration checks or penetrating spell resistance.
Still a fun build though :D
Caster Level
A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
In the event that a class feature or other special ability provides an adjustment to your caster level, that adjustment applies not only to effects based on caster level (such as range, duration, and damage dealt), but also to your caster level check to overcome your target's spell resistance and to the caster level used in dispel checks (both the dispel check and the Dc of the check).
Man thats splitting hairs .... "all level-variable effects of the spell"
Im not so sure thats right ... since CL, Range, Damage, SP are by default "Level based variables" based on what I quoted from caster level ... I dunnomore research required
Well, I have an Eldritch Knight archer/transmuter in PFS. Complicated in that he is both a high level caster and tosses out lots of attack dice in a round.
He's 12th now, but I've only posted him to 11th:
Eldritch Knight
He predates most if the UC/UM cheese, though.
I think Mattastrophic has me beat, though. You should post some your bard builds Matt.
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I would be more impressed if all these builds would withstand all chalkenged and also list the disadvantages.
As GM I would hope the explanation of the wizard/sorcerer with toppling magic missiles includes the minor fact that the sorcerer magic missiles as described are now full round spells as far as I understand the rules.
Haven't looked at the other builds with a fine comb yet to spot other minor details that make some aspects a lot less desirable as on first glance.
The 'quick' introduction of a complicated build needs to include both - the good and the bad.
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Alright... I'll bite.
My elven ranger/wizard has an initiative of +17 now. This bumps up to a +19 in the appropriate Terrain... and he has a collection of boots that help him gain that bonus most anywhere. Improved Initiative, Warrior of the Old, maxed DEX, Dueling added to his primary weapon...
Bonded object is an elven curveblade, received for free thanks to picking up his levels of Wizard. With Vital Strike, Lead Blades, and Enlarge Person he can crank out 6d8 damage a round, and obviously attack first every round.
The only thing that could have made him more broken would have been if he was a Diviner instead of a Transmuter.
Thod, I don't remember exactly where in the rules it says this, but metamagic feats for spontaneous casters take all round, but not a full round.
Here it is, under combat:
"Casting a Metamagic Spell : Sorcerers and bards must take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than a regular spell. If a spell's normal casting time is 1 standard action, casting a metamagic version of the spell is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard (except for spells modified by the Quicken Spell feat, which take 1 swift action to cast). Note that this isn't the same as a spell with a 1-round casting time. Spells that take a full-round action to cast take effect in the same round that you begin casting, and you are not required to continue the invocations, gestures, and concentration until your next turn. For spells with a longer casting time, it takes an extra full-round action to cast the metamagic spell."
