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Infernal Healing and Eschew Materials - still evil?


Rules Questions


As far as I can tell Infernal Healing is evil because of the component required. If you do away with the component, is it still evil?

Components V, S, M (1 drop of devil blood or 1 dose of unholy water)

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Umm...yes! The spell is still evil. It has nothing to do with the component and it has to do everything with the fact that you are drawing upon the powers of hell to heal.


The spell still has the evil subtype, if that's what you mean.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is animate dead still evil if you somehow don't have to use the onyx gem?


That said, are there long term effects for a neutral character for casting this spell? Assuming not generally doing other evil stuff? (I know the recipient doesn't have long term effects)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's an evil act, so yes there'd be long-term effects for the person using the power of evil to aid themselves or others.

Unless it's PFS, where, in that rare time where they differ from the rules, they have a houserule that it isn't.

Grand Lodge

Cheapy wrote:
It's an evil act, so yes there'd be long-term effects for the person using the power of evil to aid themselves or others.

Just like you have to watch out for doing good things or casting Good spells if you want to protect your character's Neutral alignment.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yep! Strangely enough, people generally don't fear becoming Good as much as they do becoming Evil.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cheapy wrote:
Yep! Strangely enough, people don't fear become Good as much as they do becoming Evil.

Speak for yourself.


Lythe Featherblade wrote:
That said, are there long term effects for a neutral character for casting this spell? Assuming not generally doing other evil stuff? (I know the recipient doesn't have long term effects)

I feel like i've heard this before. Perhaps many many many times.


There are no mechanical problems with casting evil or good spells, as an alignment shift is a complicated thing. I don't think Pathfinder has a "Evil/Good Act" counter where if you go past a certain threshold you shift alignment.

The exceptions are good/evil clerics, (anti)paladins, and inquisitors. They are flat out unable to cast opposite alignment spells.

My Neutral witch casts infernal healing and fleshworm infestation constantly, along with protection from evil and healing spells.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Urist The Unstoppable wrote:

There are no mechanical problems with casting evil or good spells, as an alignment shift is a complicated thing. I don't think Pathfinder has a "Evil/Good Act" counter where if you go past a certain threshold you shift alignment.

The exceptions are good/evil clerics, (anti)paladins, and inquisitors. They are flat out unable to cast opposite alignment spells.

My Neutral witch casts infernal healing and fleshworm infestation constantly, along with protection from evil and healing spells.

...thus achieving karmic balance?


Well I have to say I cast a lot more evil spells than good spells(and those two "good" spells aren't even [Good]), but out of combat my character is rather altruistic, and if anything she'd be neutral good.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Infernal healing is evil because you're calling on the Prince of Darkness to give you or your companion the regenerative power of a devil. It's not better if you're such a good servant of Asmodeus that you can do this without symbolic trappings.

Andoran

Starglim wrote:
Infernal healing is evil because you're calling on the Prince of Darkness to give you or your companion the regenerative power of a devil. It's not better if you're such a good servant of Asmodeus that you can do this without symbolic trappings.

So, a Sorcerer, no matter his alignment, is automatically a good servant of Asmodeus, since Eschew Materials means he doesn't need to use material components with low costs?

@Cheapy: Yes, [i]Animate Dead[i] would still have the Evil descriptor, even if you had some way to bypass needing the onyx gem.

Spoiler:
False Focus, and a gold holy symbol, would allow you to animate up to a 4 HD undead wiothout having to use any onyx gems.


Cheapy wrote:
Is animate dead still evil if you somehow don't have to use the onyx gem?

Sarcasm detected, +1 =D


its evil... but I dont think doing it once will instantly turn you from neut to evil.

I think if its a spell that you use regularly it will be a bad thing for your alignment, but if your faced with a dieing ally and have a scroll or item allowing you to use the spell once to save your ally then I dont think that one use will make you evil (through it would be fun to RP the ally's reaction to being healed with the power of evil.)

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Michael Brock wrote:

Casting an evil spell is not an alignment infraction in and of itself, as long as it doesn't violate any codes, tenents of faith, or other such issues.

Committing an evil act outside of casting the spell, such as using an evil spell to torture an innocent NPC for information or the like is an alignment infraction. Using infernal healing to heal party members is not an evil act.

I can't possibly define what every evil act could be. That is why I rely on GM discretion. But simply casting an evil descriptor spell is not an evil act in and of itself.

Found this in the PFS section where alignment infractions are under a lot of scrutiny.

Edit for Clarity


Mike Dalrymple wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:

Casting an evil spell is not an alignment infraction in and of itself, as long as it doesn't violate any codes, tenents of faith, or other such issues.

Committing an evil act outside of casting the spell, such as using an evil spell to torture an innocent NPC for information or the like is an alignment infraction. Using infernal healing to heal party members is not an evil act.

I can't possibly define what every evil act could be. That is why I rely on GM discretion. But simply casting an evil descriptor spell is not an evil act in and of itself.

Found this in the PFS section where alignment infractions are under a lot of scrutiny.

Edit for Clarity

Except that doesn't really mean anything.

Torturing an innocent NPC (or PC for that matter) for information, already is an evil act, no matter if you use a evil spell for it or just a hot iron and pincers.

It was mentioned above PFS houseruled this, so refering to it really doesn't mean much.


alignment issues are always questionable. no one likes to be told that the thing they do has a consequence they dont like.

I think in pathfinder casting a spell with evil descriptor is more specifically evil than torture.

torture can be explained, reasoned, justified at least by the person doing the torture and thus it can be argued on moral grounds....

but in the game good and evil are not simply matters of morality. GOOD and EVIL are real actual things, a substance, an energy. entire planes and creatures are made up of GOOD or EVIL.

when you cast a spell that has the evil descriptor its not that your doing an evil thing its that your USING evil, your channeling it through you and doing so, in my estimation, leaves a mark.

ultimately my measure of good and evil is this... regardless of morality does the thing you do have the ability to open you up to a given energy? if yes it moves you in that direction.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Be an Infiltrator Inquisitor.

Cast spells of any alignment with impunity.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Be an Infiltrator Inquisitor.

Cast spells of any alignment with impunity.

Can you stack Infiltrator with Kinslayer?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Icyshadow wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Be an Infiltrator Inquisitor.

Cast spells of any alignment with impunity.

Can you stack Infiltrator with Kinslayer?

It appears to.


I think you can.

they each modify different aspects of the core class.

so an kinslayer infiltrator inquisitor works fine.


That just made the Dhampir Inquisitor my friend plans to play all the more dangerous towards vampires.

He looks like one, can cast Evil spells like one, and can also burn them all to ashes when given the chance.


I think its silly that kinslayer have to be damphir. the archetype itself has nothing specifically to do with vampires. \

would make more sense to call it undeadslayer and open it to every one.


The ARG sort of says that you are free to remove the racial limitations on the archetypes, which I did with glee.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
blue_the_wolf wrote:

I think its silly that kinslayer have to be damphir. the archetype itself has nothing specifically to do with vampires. \

would make more sense to call it undeadslayer and open it to every one.

Yes, kindred undead, that what you kill.

Vampire Hunter archetype is what think it is, but is not.

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