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This comes up all the time, maybe if I do this right, we can get a sticky for it.
For ease of play in Pathfinder Society, a masterwork item can always be upgraded to a +1 item without paying for the masterwork cost again. Instead, you pay the difference between the cost of the +1 item and that of the masterwork item. This rule also applies to upgrading from a +1 item to a +2 item and so on—you never have to repay the original cost or sell your current item for half to upgrade to the next step. Note that this only applies to items of the same kind—you can’t, for example, turn your masterwork rapier into a +1 greatsword. A mundane item can not be upgraded to masterwork, nor can nonmagical aspects of equipment be upgraded (such as the strength rating on a composite bow*).
*Previous campaign coordinators specifically allowed this type of upgrade.
Q: I have a non-masterwork greatsword (50 gp). Can I upgrade it to a +1 weapon?
A: Normally no. Items can not be upgraded to masterwork quality unless you pay for a masterwork transformation spell from Ultimate Magic on the item. (pg 26) Please note, you are only allowed to have one item with this spell that carries over from session to session. Once an item has been enchanted to be a +1, it does not count against the one masterwork transformation item allowed per character.
Q: I have a masterwork greatsword (350 gp). Can I upgrade it to a +1 weapon?
A: Yes. You can spend 2,000 gp and upgrade your greatsword to a +1 greatsword. Note: You can perform this upgrade regardless of fame.
Q: I have a +1 greatsword (2350 gp). Can I upgrade it to a +2 weapon?
A: Yes. You can spend 6,000 more gp if and only if you have enough fame to pay for the final item. In this example, your final item price is 8,350 gp and requires 27 fame to purchase (Table 5-3, pg 26).
Q: I have a +1 greatsword. Can I upgrade it to a +1 adamantine greatsword?
A: No. Unless the special material specifically says it can be added to items that already exist, you can not add a special material. If you want to add special material properties to existing weapons, look at weapon blanches from the APG.
Q: Can I upgrade my headband of vast intelligence +2 into a headband of intellect +4?
A: Yes. You can spend 12,000 gp to upgrade your headband as long as you have enough fame (31) to purchase the final item price (16,000 gp)
Q: Can I upgrade my headband of vast intelligence +2 into a headband of mental prowess +2?
A: Yes. You can spend 6,000 gp to upgrade your headband as long as you have enough fame (27) to purchase the final item price (10,000 gp)
Q: Can I upgrade my headband of mental prowess +2 into a headband of mental prowess with +4 to intelligence and +2 to charisma?
A: No. You can not upgrade items into items that don't clearly exist in a legal PFS source.
Q: Can I upgrade my amulet of natural armor +1 into a amulet of natural armor +2?
A: Yes. You can spend 6,000 gp to upgrade your amulet as long as you have enough fame (22) to purchase the final item price (8,000 gp)
Q: Can I upgrade my handy haversack into a bag of holding?
A: No. While similar they are not the same item (with a better rating). You also may not upgrade a type I bag of holding to a type II bag of holding per the FAQ. This also includes things like bracers of archery and metamagic rods.
The FAQ states:
Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?
Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
I'm past the point where I can edit this. Mike can you update my original post with this please?
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Well written, Kyle. This was a good idea. I have one comment/question:
Q: I have a non-masterwork greatsword (50 gp). Can I upgrade it to a +1 weapon?
A: Normally no. Items can not be upgraded to masterwork quality unless you pay for a masterwork transformation spell from Ultimate Magic on the item. (pg 26) Please note, you are only allowed to have one item with this spell that carries over from session to session.
On the Masterwork Transformation, once you upgrade the item to +1, is the spell considered to be "gone", so that you could now cast it on a new item if you wished? Whichever it is, you might add that to the answer for this question.
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On the Masterwork Transformation, once you upgrade the item to +1, is the spell considered to be "gone", so that you could now cast it on a new item if you wished? Whichever it is, you might add that to the answer for this question.
Good question. I haven't seen an answer to this question yet. My personal opinion is that it should stick around, but I think in the long run it really doesn't matter.
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Lesser Bracers of Archery to Greater Bracers of Archery or Lesser Metamagic Rods to regular Metamagic Rods are a good example of things you cannot upgrade.Interesting. Got a link?
It's from the FAQ... Believe me, nothing would make me happier than the ability to upgrade my rods but looks like only wondrous items with "+X" in the name can be upgraded, and the only exception made so far are the belts and headbands going from +2 in a stat to +2 in two different stats. :(
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Mike, any thoughts on the question Rinaldo posed a bit above: once an item has been "masterwork transformed", if it is then enchanted as a +1 item, does it still count against the one MW-transform item allowed per character?
Like Kyle said, that shouldn't matter for more than one item (I'd expect it to be heirloom weapons mainly), but given how creative some of the PFS players I've met have been, it might come up here and there.
Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
Mike, any thoughts on the question Rinaldo posed a bit above: once an item has been "masterwork transformed", if it is then enchanted as a +1 item, does it still count against the one MW-transform item allowed per character?
Like Kyle said, that shouldn't matter for more than one item (I'd expect it to be heirloom weapons mainly), but given how creative some of the PFS players I've met have been, it might come up here and there.
If an item has been enchanted and upgraded to a +1 item, it does not count against the one MW transform item allowed per character.
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If an item has been enchanted and upgraded to a +1 item, it does not count against the one MW transform item allowed per character.Mike, any thoughts on the question Rinaldo posed a bit above: once an item has been "masterwork transformed", if it is then enchanted as a +1 item, does it still count against the one MW-transform item allowed per character?
Like Kyle said, that shouldn't matter for more than one item (I'd expect it to be heirloom weapons mainly), but given how creative some of the PFS players I've met have been, it might come up here and there.
This should probably go on the stickied post of message board clarifications.
Found a typo (bolding mine for emphasis)
Q: Can I upgrade my amulet of natural armor +1 into a amulet of natural armor +2?
A: Yes. You can spend 6,000 gp to upgrade your headband as long as you have enough fame (22) to purchase the final item price (8,000 gp)
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Q: Can I upgrade my headband of mental prowess +2 into a headband of mental prowess with +4 to intelligence and +2 to charisma?
A: No. You can not upgrade items into items that don't clearly exist in a legal PFS source.
I know for a fact such an item exists but it is not for the masses. They wouldn't truly appreciate its power.
But I digress, good job Kyle. This clears up some questions we were having locally.
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Kyle, great job.
May I also suggest that an edited example be put there. To give clarification of the "Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item"
Q: Can I work my way towards a named magical item of the weapon or armor category? Such as Celestial Armor?
Yes. So, for example I have a Mithrial Chainmail which I bought for 4150. Over time I add my +3 bonus for an extra 9000. This puts me at a +3 Mithrial Chainmail which cost a total of 13,150. I now wish to upgrade to Celestial Armor for the difference in price 13,150-22,400= 9250. I will still need the fame score of 36 to purchase this item.
If this is too confusing or wordy feel free to clean this up.
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I'm past the point where I can edit this. Mike can you update my original post with this please?
Q: Can I work my way towards a named magical item of the weapon or armor category? Such as Celestial Armor?
A: Yes. Using this example you can purchase +1 Mithral Chainmail 5,150 gp regardless of fame.
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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I'm past the point where I can edit this. Mike can you update my original post with this please?
Q: Can I work my way towards a named magical item of the weapon or armor category? Such as Celestial Armor?
A: Yes. Using this example you can purchase +1 Mithral Chainmail 5,150 gp regardless of fame.
Once you have at least 27 fame, you may upgrade it to +2 mithral chainmail for 3,000 gp (total value 8,150 gp). Once you have at least 31 fame, you may upgrade it to +3 mithral chainmail for 5,000 gp more (total value 13,150 gp). Once you have at least 36 fame, you can spend 9,250 gp to upgrade your armor to Celestial Armor (total value 22,400 gp). (9,250 gp is the difference in value between Celestial Armor (22,400 gp) and your +3 mithral chainmail)
Done
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Kyle, great job.
May I also suggest that an edited example be put there. To give clarification of the "Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item"
Q: Can I work my way towards a named magical item of the weapon or armor category? Such as Celestial Armor?
Yes. So, for example I have a Mithrial Chainmail which I bought for 4150. Over time I add my +3 bonus for an extra 9000. This puts me at a +3 Mithrial Chainmail which cost a total of 13,150. I now wish to upgrade to Celestial Armor for the difference in price 13,150-22,400= 9250. I will still need the fame score of 36 to purchase this item.
If this is too confusing or wordy feel free to clean this up.
Actually, you can not do this. Mithrial Chainmail is made of Mithrial. Celestial Armor is made of "bright silver or gold" and "is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing". Celestial Armor is not made of Mithrial and you can not upgrade the materials that something is made of.
Edit. Reversed by Mike. Mike really?
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Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Kyle, great job.
May I also suggest that an edited example be put there. To give clarification of the "Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item"
Q: Can I work my way towards a named magical item of the weapon or armor category? Such as Celestial Armor?
Yes. So, for example I have a Mithrial Chainmail which I bought for 4150. Over time I add my +3 bonus for an extra 9000. This puts me at a +3 Mithrial Chainmail which cost a total of 13,150. I now wish to upgrade to Celestial Armor for the difference in price 13,150-22,400= 9250. I will still need the fame score of 36 to purchase this item.
If this is too confusing or wordy feel free to clean this up.
Actually, you can not do this. Mithrial Chainmail is made of Mithrial. Celestial Armor is made of "bright silver or gold" and "is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing". Celestial Armor is not made of Mithrial and you can not upgrade the materials that something is made of.
Edit. Reversed by Mike. Mike really?
I stand corrected. Suits me for answering without pulling a book out and looking up what the metal Celestial Armor was made from. I was going on the word of the posters here. Thanks for the correction and removed from above.
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THe Celistial armor problem results in the fact celistial armor is a legacy 3.x item and in the initial write up for the item it never telle what metal Celistial Armor is made out of it just describes what it looks like. THis calls for the design team for pathfinder to define what metal Celistial armor is made out of.
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My question: Does this actually cost Fame (with gold) to purchase?
Or do you just have to have your fame that high and the gold to purchase it with?
You just have to have the fame that high to purchase.
If something "costs fame" its really costing prestige.
Once you are cleared to buy +2 weapons from the society then the society will sell you +2 weapons all day as long as you keep putting gold on the counter.
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Son of a... feeling too lazy to make a different example. :-)Mistmail. Masterwork Chain Shirt -> Chain Shirt +1 -> Mistmail.
I was just looking through Mike's Clarifications for PFS Ruling sticky thread and found this. (emphasis mine)
You cannot upgrade an item to an item of a different name with the exception of belts and headbands being upgraded to include more than one stat bonus (and the requisite change in name from belt of mighty constitution to belt of physical might, for example). You cannot upgrade from a non-named item to a named item.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Son of a... feeling too lazy to make a different example. :-)Mistmail. Masterwork Chain Shirt -> Chain Shirt +1 -> Mistmail.I was just looking through Mike's Clarifications for PFS Ruling sticky thread and found this. (emphasis mine)
You cannot upgrade an item to an item of a different name with the exception of belts and headbands being upgraded to include more than one stat bonus (and the requisite change in name from belt of mighty constitution to belt of physical might, for example). You cannot upgrade from a non-named item to a named item.
Overturned in the Official FAQ:
Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions.
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I am not clicking on that youtube link.
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Overturned in the Official FAQ:
Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions.
Good, I prefer that. Thanks for the catch. Now, the posts in Mike's Clarifications for PFS Ruling sticky needs to be cleaned up.
Oh, and I'm not clicking on the link either :-)
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I stand corrected. Suits me for answering without pulling a book out and looking up what the metal Celestial Armor was made from. I was going on the word of the posters here. Thanks for the correction and removed from above.Kyle, great job.
May I also suggest that an edited example be put there. To give clarification of the "Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item"
Q: Can I work my way towards a named magical item of the weapon or armor category? Such as Celestial Armor?
Yes. So, for example I have a Mithrial Chainmail which I bought for 4150. Over time I add my +3 bonus for an extra 9000. This puts me at a +3 Mithrial Chainmail which cost a total of 13,150. I now wish to upgrade to Celestial Armor for the difference in price 13,150-22,400= 9250. I will still need the fame score of 36 to purchase this item.
If this is too confusing or wordy feel free to clean this up.
Actually, you can not do this. Mithrial Chainmail is made of Mithrial. Celestial Armor is made of "bright silver or gold" and "is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing". Celestial Armor is not made of Mithrial and you can not upgrade the materials that something is made of.
Edit. Reversed by Mike. Mike really?
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... So how do you upgrade to a Celestial Armor armor then?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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... So how do you upgrade to a Celestial Armor armor then?
You upgrade from silver or gold masterwork chainmail by paying the difference in price.
What to take into consideration:
This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail...
The standard coin weighs about a third of an ounce (50 to the pound).
Chainmail (40 lbs.)= 150 gp
Masterwork Quality = 150 gpSilver (40 lbs.) = 2,000 sp or 200 gp
Gold (40 lbs.) = 2,000 gp
Celestial Armor = 11,350 gp
Masterwork Silver Chainmail = 500 gp
upgrade to Silver Celestial Armor = 10,850 gp
Masterwork Gold Chainmail = 2,300 gp
upgrade to Gold Celestial Armor = 9,050
But since gold and silver are not listed Special Materials, I am not sure it can be done in PFS...
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I clicked the link. I was pleased with my results.LIES!!! No one is ever pleased when they click a You Tube link.....Nah Nah Nah...Nah Nah Nah Nah
Unless they're a HUGE fan of Rick Astley. Never gonna click you up!
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... So how do you upgrade to a Celestial Armor armor then?You upgrade from silver or gold masterwork chainmail by paying the difference in price.
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But since gold and silver are not listed Special Materials, I am not sure it can be done in PFS...
I don't think it can. The actual material that it is made of is unclear.
This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day.
Is it made of silver or gold, OR is the color silver or gold? Either way, because it is made "so fine and light", it's special and something I don't think you can upgrade to. You can't take chainmail made from silver, with it's normal big chain rings and transform that into rings that are fine and light. At least that's my reasonable, logical approach.
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Yeah logical was thrown out the window, when gygax was born! All Hail the birth of Gygax.
