To answer the original question, look at it mathematically. HP=(H)*(P), and by the commutative property, (P)*(H)=ph. Water has a ph of 7, so it should have an hp of 7 as well.
This means that it takes damage from acid. And it's healed by alkali.
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Is there a Gazebo in it?
All of them.
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Okay, if I wanted to use Polymorph Any Object to turn a volume of water into a human, could I?
Does a volume of water qualify as an object?
Yes and Yes
And if you want to go back to the question about whether water is immune to damage, you will find no RAW answer for it other than Rule 0 (which means your GM will have to use his common sense).
What happens when water gets the 'Broken' condition?
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How much damage does standing in a campfire do ? How long does it take the water in a teakettle set in the same campfire to be boiled away ? Do a little math and we've got the answer.I think mundane fire is typically 1d6
Ok, let's do some math.
First off, some assumptions:
-For this post, if I am using quotes, I am using PF terms.
-The fire will be of dry oak wood, assuming that we're burning 5 lbs per hour (a pretty standard rate for a cooking fire).
-The 1d6 damage from a campfire is the amount done to an object (the water in this instance) in contact with the fire, we'll assume that is only 1/3 of the total heat output, the other 2/3 being radiated/conducted/convected to the air, soil, rocks, etc. This efficiency rating is probably MUCH higher than most open-air campfires.
-The water will be 1 liter of water at room temp (72 F, 1 atmosphere of pressure).
-Water boils at 212 F, we're assuming that once water beings to boil, it is essentially "destroyed" through "damage" from the fire.
-Water would not have any "hardness" because it is not hard by any definition of the word until it becomes ice.
-The average of 1d6 is 3.5
-Since water takes the form of its container, it cannot be measured in inches of thickness and we have to work it out by volume.
Things not taken into account
-The container. Assuming that the heat "damage" is being directly applied to the water and there is no "DR" to overcome from the metal pot or whatever.
-Probably some other stuff such as ambient air temperature.
The math
-The BTU capacity of dry oak is 6,388 BTU/lb.
-If we have a campfire burning 5 lbs of oak per hour, the BTU output is 53 BTUs/"round" [(5 lbs*6388 BTUs)/60 min/10 rounds].
-Using the 33% efficiency assumption, that comes to 18 BTUs/round.
-So, 1d6 damage is approx. 18 BTUs of heat energy.
-We need to raise the water from 72 F to 212 F, which requires 308 BTUs [(212-72)*2.2]
-That comes to a little more than 17d6 of damage (308/18)
-Converting to straight HP, you would need to deal about 60 points of damage to a liter of water to boil it (17*3.5).
Water has 60 HP/Liter
So, if you want to destroy a 55 gallon drum of water? You'll have to deal 12,480 points of fire damage to it (208 L*60)
<= applauds Nebelwerfer
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Ok, let's do some math.
Let's take this a step further and figure out how to actually "destroy" water by separating it into it component atoms, hydrogen and oxygen.
This website says that it takes 118 kcal of energy to decompose 2 moles of water into its elements.
-118 kcal is approx. 468 BTUs (thanks Google)
-1 mol of H20 is 18.016g, so 2 mole is 36.032g, or 0.036L
-Therefore, it takes 13,000 BTUs of energy to destroy 1L of water.
-Converting to PF terms (using the 18 BTU/d6 from above) that would be 722d6 or 2527 damage to destroy 1 L of water
It takes 2527 damage to completely destroy 1L of water
Want to completely gassify a 55 gal drum of water? You'll need to deal 525,616 damage to it, in one shot (2527*208L)
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What happens when water gets the 'Broken' condition?
The baby is on its way.
@Nebelwerfer41, one small point: raising water to 212 won't boil it. You need additional energy to cause the phase change. I don't know off the top of my head how much though (except that it's a substantial amount), but that'd mean it should have more than 60 HP/L.
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you cannot break water, there for it has no HP. if you wanted to know how much non physical damage it would take to evaporate water, then you would first have to know how many BTU a flame based spll or mundane source has... which you cant figure out because its a game.
as a gm you make that call, i would say shooting a firball at max CL would take a chunk out of a pool of water. while the damage would be constant, how big that chunk is would be relative to the size of the body of water.
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@Nebelwerfer41, one small point: raising water to 212 won't boil it. You need additional energy to cause the phase change. I don't know off the top of my head how much though (except that it's a substantial amount), but that'd mean it should have more than 60 HP/L.
Yeah, I knew there was something not right, the number was MUCH lower than I thought it should be.
I just did a little digging and found some info on This forum thread regarding the energy needed to turn water completely into steam.
So, given that it takes 540 ADDITIONAL calories to turn 1 gram of 100 deg C water into steam, lets work that out.
For 1 L of water, that means 540,000 kilocalories, or almost 2142 additional BTUs (thanks to Google for the conversion work).
So, to boil it we need 308 BTUs and then to convert it all to steam we need 2142 BTUs for a total of 2450 to take 1 L of water from room temperature to steam.
Assuming base fire damage (1d6) is 18 BTUs, you would need 136d6 od fire damage, or an average of 476 pts of fire damage to boil 1 L of water. Lets round to a nice number:
Water has 480 HP/L
Matter can neither be created nor destroyed...so no HP or infinite HP with infinite/- DR.
But seriously...I think you can't destroy water, at best you could change its state to solid, vapor, or plasma.
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Matter can neither be created nor destroyed...so no HP or infinite HP with infinite/- DR.
But seriously...I think you can't destroy water, at best you could change its state to solid, vapor, or plasma.
I would consider breaking H2O into hydrogen and oxygen atoms as "destroying" it.
I know it is ludicrous, but blackbloodtroll wouldn't stop asking questions until someone spat a number at him. Either that or he had an answer in mind and was just waiting to lay into someone with a 'gotcha' moment.
BTW, It really isn't the HP of water now that I consider it, but the amount of fire damage needed to boil or destroy water. Those could be very different things, but it is as close as I could come up with a way to calculate it.
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Although some of my questions may end up being unanswerable, they were without malicious intent.
There should be some kind conditions met to qualify something as an "object" in Pathfinder terms.
As stated, there are spells and abilities that damage objects without doing so in a manner that can be compared to a real world example.
It is because these exist, that we must be able to set some prerequisites forth in determining if something is treated as an object, and if it is immune to damage.
I know people hate hearing this in the rules forum, but that is why RPGs have a DM. You can't make a rule for every situation that could possibly arise in a game.
THAT is the real answer. You can't cover everything in the rules.
*clap clap clap*+1 Internets for you, my friend.
Did anyone think of Glorian from JourneyQuest when they read the title?
I know people hate hearing this in the rules forum, but that is why RPGs have a DM. You can't make a rule for every situation that could possibly arise in a game.
But it's fun to think about how many fireballs it would take to dry out a lake (assuming you as GM let fireball even affect water)
Besides otherwise you're just playing DM may I? It's always nice to have rules because it helps things stay fair and consistent. No they're not always needed, in fact you could play entirely without rules but then you're just letting some other person decide if something is possible or not at a whim. (and people are horrible simulation environments because their relevant knowledge is limited and their memory is inconsistent)