Does alertness from a Familiar qualify for Sleepless Detective prestige class?


Rules Questions


If I were the DM at a home game I would say yes - alertness from a familiar seems in keeping with the flavor of the Sleepless Detective prestige class but I'm unclear if feats from sources other than taking the feat (or getting a feat from a class bonus) can be used as requirements (for example does a feat from an ioun stone qualify you for other feats or prestige classes that require say Endurance as a feat?)


I don't see why not.


The argument against would be that when the familiar is not nearby you don't have alertness - unclear what should happen if you lose a prerequisite for a prestige class you have.


It qualifies but you can't take any more levels in it if you lose access to the feat. At least, I think that's how it works.


I'd allow it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would not allow it because it is being granted by the familiar, if the familiar is kidnapped, killed or just goes out of range the feat is gone. You have to ask would you allow it if it was coming from another source such as a ring or other magicial item?


Having the feat, regardless of source, counts towards the prerequisites of entering a Prestige Class. You do NOT suddenly lose your skills if you lose the feat. That'd make as much sense as not allowing a Prestige Class because the feat you have (which is a prerequisite) was a bonus feat instead of a level-dependent one.


John Templeton wrote:
I would not allow it because it is being granted by the familiar, if the familiar is kidnapped, killed or just goes out of range the feat is gone. You have to ask would you allow it if it was coming from another source such as a ring or other magicial item?

Well yeah, a magical belt is explicit about how the ability bonus is only "temporary" for the first 24 hours. Which implies that there must be some way of dealing with a permanent (or at least non-temporary) effect from a source that can be lost, such as a belt or a cat. Aioran's take sounds reasonable.


Aioran wrote:
It qualifies but you can't take any more levels in it if you lose access to the feat. At least, I think that's how it works.

I'd go with this in the case of a familiar, as long as the player's making it cool and not just trying to save a feat for its own sake.

I wouldn't allow it for a magic item, though, but I admit that's just an arbitrary stylistic choice -- an investigator with his trusty animal companion presents a much cooler mental image to me than, say, an investigator with his trusty floating gem-thingy.


I want to add, for the OP's sub-question about using an item to qualify for a feat: I would let you take the feat, and then lose the use of it when you don't have the item. Do you think that would be doing you a favor? Why no, it would be making potential to mess with you. Heh. Heh. Heh. 8)

Grand Lodge

Dark Blue Rhomboid Ioun stone will grant you the Alertness feat, and access to the Prestige Class as well.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Dark Blue Rhomboid Ioun stone will grant you the Alertness feat, and access to the Prestige Class as well.

Yeah, magic items can allow you to take feats that you can't without them (Such as a headband of Cha allowing you to qualify for the Cha requirement of Eldritch Heritage, etc.), I don't see why the familiar Alertness wouldn't work the same way. It's essentially a permanent bonus unless your familiar is killed, and even then you can get a new one in a week and you'll get Alertness back then.


Rycaut wrote:
The argument against would be that when the familiar is not nearby you don't have alertness - unclear what should happen if you lose a prerequisite for a prestige class you have.

You no longer have access to those abilities gained from having that "temporary" feat...

I guess the nearest thing would be fighter retraining feats...sort of


I think it would qualify. But you loose access to it and any effect that has on the or any time it leaves your side. Really the qualifications for a permanent bonus are having it 24 which the familiar feat can be.


Feats in a feat chain would be one thing (the fighter retraining explicitly says you can't retrain feats if other feats you have depend upon them) but do you lose a full class level (or more)?

As a DM I would say that seems overly harsh - but it also seems arbitrary and a bit unfair to ask a character that likely has has effectively alertness since level 1 (if a wizard or witch with a familiar or an arcane bloodline sorcerer - the other edge cases for getting a familiar or familiar like object might happen at othe levels - say the bladebound magus) spend a feat getting a feat they usually already have.

Personally I would have preferred to see the Sleepless Detective prestige class have a clearer requirements - perhaps either directly noting the many ways to get alertness or a requirement that allowed for multiple ways to get there (for example "a +20 or higher perception and sense motive bonus w/o temporary bonuses - perhaps with the separate ranks requirements that are effectively a level requirement or possibly with just a straight "must have a character level of at least 5")

The advantage of such a requirement over the current models is it would still reward the taking of alertness to get into the class but it would also be open to other character options that reward a focus on perception and sense motive (ie skill focus in either, the style chain based on sense motive, races w/racial bonuses to either skill etc)

Not sure if +20 is the right number but something like that is what I might houserule in a home game if a player wanted to play an investigator/detective type of character without spending the feat on alertness to qualify for the prestige class.


Necro Thread Go!

Say I'm a Tattoo'd Socrcerer, and I want to go Sleepless detective.

I assume while my familiar is in tattoo form I don't get Alertness.

In this case, how would it affect my ability to take the PrC, and will I lose my abilites while my Familiar is a tattoo?


A tattoo familiar is DEFINITELY WITHIN arms reach, if you'll excuse the pun. haha. Within arms. Sorry. That's gold.

But as a veteran DM I would say you'd still have alertness even when he was a tattoo.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aioran wrote:
It qualifies but you can't take any more levels in it if you lose access to the feat. At least, I think that's how it works.

If you lose access to a feat that qualifies you access to the PrC you lose ALL class features from those Prc levels save your hit dice, BAB and saving throw modifiers, and skill ranks learned.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

2 people marked this as a favorite.

As the guy who wrote the sleepless detective prestige class, I wholeheartedly support the idea of using a familiar to meet the requirements.

I can't actually give you an official ruling or anything, I just think the idea sounds really cool. :) (doubly so for a tattoo familiar)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Does alertness from a Familiar qualify for Sleepless Detective prestige class? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.