Can an Alchemist take the Extra Discovery Feat at level 1?


Rules Questions

Lantern Lodge

An Alchemist have Discovery at level 2. Can he spend his level 1 feat slot on the Extra Discovery feat?


Nope. You don't have the prerequisites for it.

Lantern Lodge

Got it! Thanks.

Looks like its Breath of Experience for me...


A bombing alchemist can benefit a great deal from taking point blank shot and precise shot at level 1 (assuming you're human) and precise bombs at level 2.

The Exchange

I disagree with this interpretation. To explain, let's compare these two monk feats:

Feat - Extra Ki
Prerequisite - Ki Pool Class Feature

Feat - Ki Stand
Prerequisite - Ki Pool

KiStand clearly requires the PC to have a Ki Pool, something monk's don't get until level 4. ExtraKi's prerequisites are articulated differently. ExtraKi doesn't say that the PC needs to have a ki pool, it simply says that a ki pool must be a feature of that PC's class. Since the verbiage makes this distinction for monks, it would be logical that the distinction is the same for other classes.

So, let's return to alchemists.

Feat - Extra Discovery
Prerequisite - Discovery Class Feature

Thus, to take ExtraDiscovery, Discoveries must be a feature of the PC's class. If the rules wanted to prevent level 1 alchemists from taking this feat, the prerequisite would read as follows:

Feat - Extra Discovery
Prerequisite - Discovery/Discoveries

(Furthermore, the magnitude of the ExtraDiscovery feat is appropriate for a level 1 PC because the PC is inherently restricted in the discoveries she may choose from, based on the prerequisites of each discovery.)


The core rulebook FAQ explicitly states that one cannot use a class feature as a prerequisite until the level you actually gain that class feature.


Kelscar wrote:

I disagree with this interpretation. To explain, let's compare these two monk feats:

Feat - Extra Ki
Prerequisite - Ki Pool Class Feature

Feat - Ki Stand
Prerequisite - Ki Pool

KiStand clearly requires the PC to have a Ki Pool, something monk's don't get until level 4. ExtraKi's prerequisites are articulated differently. ExtraKi doesn't say that the PC needs to have a ki pool, it simply says that a ki pool must be a feature of that PC's class. Since the verbiage makes this distinction for monks, it would be logical that the distinction is the same for other classes.

So, let's return to alchemists.

Feat - Extra Discovery
Prerequisite - Discovery Class Feature

Thus, to take ExtraDiscovery, Discoveries must be a feature of the PC's class. If the rules wanted to prevent level 1 alchemists from taking this feat, the prerequisite would read as follows:

Feat - Extra Discovery
Prerequisite - Discovery/Discoveries

(Furthermore, the magnitude of the ExtraDiscovery feat is appropriate for a level 1 PC because the PC is inherently restricted in the discoveries she may choose from, based on the prerequisites of each discovery.)

Unfortunatly the developers don't agree, see this link.


There is one way, but its kinda loop holey and might lock you into a path u dont want. If you took the Dragonblood Chymist archetype you gain Explosive Breath:

"At 1st level, a dragonblood chymist gains the ability to expel fire from his mouth in the same manner as a dragon. He gains the breath weapon bomb alchemist discovery but must apply this discovery to every bomb he creates.
This ability replaces the Throw Anything ability."

Because u get the "breath weapon bomb alchemist discovery" you do have the discovery class feature, and could take the extra discovery feat.
But as I said it is clearly a loop hole. Id say your DM might not allow it, but if they are ok with it, and you are, who cares, its your game have fun :)


You cannot take the extra discovery feat until you have an actual discovery. It's determined by level.

Paizo FAQ wrote:

When do I count as having a class feature?

You have a class feature when your class description tells you you gain that class feature, generally based on your level in that class (and perhaps altered by factors, see below).

If you have an archetype or other rules element that replaces that class feature, you do not have that class feature. For example, if your archetype replaces a rogue's sneak attack, you no longer have the sneak attack class feature (whether a requirement is as general as "sneak attack" or as specific as "sneak attack +1d6," you do not qualify for it).

If you have an archetype or other rules element that replaces part of a scaling class feature, or delays when you get that class feature, you do not have that class feature until you actually gain that class feature.
Example: If you have a fighter archetype that replaces weapon training 1 (but not weapon training 2, 3, and 4), you don't gain the weapon training 2 ability until fighter level 9, which means you don't have the weapon training class ability at all until you reach fighter level 9. Anything with "weapon training" or "weapon training class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to you until level 9.
Example: If you have a cleric archetype that replaces channel energy at level 1 (but not later increments of channel energy), you don't gain the channel energy ability until cleric level 3, which means you don't have the channel energy class feature until you reach cleric level 3. Anything with "channel energy" or "channel energy class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to you until level 3.
Example: If you have a witch archetype that replaces your hex at level 1 (but not later hexes, major hexes, or grand hexes), you don't gain your first hex ability until witch level 2, which means you don't have the hex class feature until you reach witch level 2. Anything with "hex" or "hex class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to you until level 2.

You gain your first discovery at level 2, and that's when you're considered as having the Discovery class feature. You cannot take extra discovery feat until you're level 3.


There is the option of retraining at level 2 though hey?


Cavall wrote:
There is the option of retraining at level 2 though hey?

Yes, in theory you could retrain once you get to level 2. It would cost you 10 x your lvl x days of retraining in gp cost and 8 hours of uninterrupted training. So 8 hours, and 20gp. Your GM has to be cool with it as well though, obviously.


Five years.


Undead Thread wrote:
Five years.

Did anyone else read this in the voice of "Finish Him" from Mortal Kombat?

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