You don't have to resist magic outside of combat. Buff up, go nuts, heal after. Build your tactics around that idea.
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2) As far as I know, Superstition doesn't specifically state that you hate magic and those who use it. But that's the common attitude of the board it seems (and I agree with that view). Sure, occasional party conflict is fun. But constantly hating party members is just no good in my book. How do you deal with the role play challenges?
One way to view it is that the barbarian's deeply held spiritual/religious beliefs may be a bit out of step with the norm everyone else follows, and either these beliefs are strong enough to shield him from conventional magic or whatever he believes is actively running interference on any incoming magic.
The barbarian could believe:
And maybe there could be a little truth to it. He could actually share the same general beliefs of the party's divine types and appreciate arcane magic, but the finer points of his beliefs are just a bit off.
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I don't think the healer needs to roll to touch the barbarian. Touching an ally is still an automatic hit, unless the person being touched says otherwise. But you're right that the barb will make a save for half healing.
Luckily, barbarians have high enough HP and DR to be able to wait until after the fight to get healed, most of the time. My invulnerable rager barbarian in PFS is level 7, and I can only think of two times he's really needed to get healed during a fight, instead of waiting until after it was over. In fact, despite insisting on being the front line tank in every fight, this character has actually never gone unconscious from negative HPs.
Fromber, I had assumed the healer would need to land a touch attack because the barbarian wouldn't be a willing target.
You are correct, usually touching an ally is an automatic hit because they would be a willing target for buff and support spells. But, superstition specifically says that while raging the barbarian can not be a willing target for any spell. So first you would need to roll to hit them, then the barbarian would get a saving throw to resist the spell.
Umbral Reaver, if you can see the fight coming I would agree with that idea completely. But what about dungeon crawls/surprise fights where any door could lead to the BBEG?
Who said you have to begin every fight raging and stay raging whenever physically possible? The bonus to saves applies all the time, but the need to roll for saves vs. helpful spells only applies while raging. Is there a reason you can't just refrain from raging for the first round or two of combat while you get buffed?
Aside from that, I don't see how it's any different than any other melee character in a low-prep situation.
One way to view it is that the barbarian's deeply held spiritual/religious beliefs may be a bit out of step with the norm everyone else follows, and either these beliefs are strong enough to shield him from conventional magic or whatever he believes is actively running interference on any incoming magic.
There is a Native American legend of a warrior who was reported to be invincible, but that protection would be lost if he ever touched metal. Sounds like a great backstory to crib for this situation.
You could also go with a 'fair fight' kind of thing where you face your opponents on a specific set of fighting terms- no weapons (or maybe melee only), no magic, no dirty tricks. Then when nobody else follows your code of fair conduct, you rage and adhere to your code even more rigidly.
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The bonus to saves applies all the time, but the need to roll for saves vs. helpful spells only applies while raging.
I do not think that this is the case:
A barbarian gains the benefits of rage powers only while raging, and some of these powers require the barbarian to take an action first.
That is taken directly from the text of the Rage Powers ability. As there is nothing written in the Superstition power to circumvent that restriction, we can assume that this rage power, like all rage powers, only grants its benefits when raging.
The bonus to saves applies all the time, but the need to roll for saves vs. helpful spells only applies while raging.I do not think that this is the case:
A barbarian gains the benefits of rage powers only while raging, and some of these powers require the barbarian to take an action first.That is taken directly from the text of the Rage Powers ability. As there is nothing written in the Superstition power to circumvent that restriction, we can assume that this rage power, like all rage powers, only grants its benefits when raging.
I disagree, superstition says "you gain +2 moral bonus to saves against spells" then later it says "while raging you can not be the willing target of a spell". If the bonus to saves really was ment to only apply when raging it would have said so.
Additionaly, you should bear in mind that Channel Energy and Lay on Hands are not spells, and thus may be freely used on a Raging Superstitious Barbarian.
They are not spells, but they are both supernatural abilities which along with spell-like abilities are still affected by superstition. All spells, supernatural and spell-like abilities would have to roll to hit then the barbarian gets a saving throw to resist it.
Speaking of mechanics, Superstition forces you to not be a willing target of spells. It doesn't mention spell-like and supernatural abilities. Are they all lumped together by the term "spells"? Does the "flavor" of the power include those anyways? Do superstitious people only have beef with certain kinds of abilities?
I would like to ask you to reread the rage power again.
Superstition (Ex)
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Yes, the bonus saves apply to spells, spell-likes, and supernatural abilities. But the drawback says "While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies."
So, would you let your player take the full channel or Lay on Hands heal by the wording of that sentence? Or is that being too much of a rules lawyer?
Ah right, my mistake there. I'm not really sure, it just says spells so one would think that supernatural and spell-like abilities should be fine.
mmm, this is a tricky one.
As you can probably infer from my previous post, I do not think it is tricky at all. Rage Powers are meant to be in effect during rages, hence their name and the general rule. Nowhere does it state that Superstition is an exemption.
I imagine it will boil down to GM preference. From a game mechanics point of view, I would say the bonus follows the blanket "Rage Powers only while raging." But from any other angle, I would allow it. Is your superstition only supposed to have benefits when you can no longer fully use your cognitive abilities? That's just silly.
As a GM you can house-rule it any way you want, of course. But Superstition is just a name for a mechanic; people have been giving many different flavour explanations. It is as hard to believe it only works when raging as it is to believe that a barbarian grows fangs, becomes a better swimmer, is able to re-roll a Will save or only has a special connection to his totem when raging.
Many people, maybe even barbarians, are superstitious, but that in itself does not protect them from spells. A barbarian with this rage power obviously manifests something more than mere superstition when raging.
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Even after having posted in this very thread, I keep reading the title as 'Sell me on superposition'.
Quantum Barbarian.
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Superposition (Su): The barbarian's fury reaches the fundament of reality, allowing her to make multiple possible attacks simultaneously then resolve them into one outcome. While raging, whenever the barbarian makes an attack, she may make the same attack roll against all valid targets simultaneously (apply conditional modifiers such as cover separately for each target as appropriate). Immediately after seeing the results of the attack rolls, she may choose which of those attacks to resolve. The other attacks do not actually occur.
Even after having posted in this very thread, I keep reading the title as 'Sell me on superposition'.
Quantum Barbarian.
I'll take a dozen.
Simple solution, Moment of Clarity allows you to at least one time per rage drop the requirement that you resist all spells.
Also go human and take the alternate favored class bonus that ups superstition bonus by 1/3 per level. By level 20 have a +13 to ALL saves vs spells while raging. Combine with greater rage at 20 and you have a +17 to will saves....so, goodbye casters.
Made a Barbarian at lvl 20 optimized and while raging has a AC of 51 485 hp and saves as such:
Fortitude: +46
Reflex: 32
Will: 35Debating whether or not to actually do this to my DM.
Sounds awesome. Post a build.
I see superstition as a fear response to magic that is heightened with the extraordinary trance state that a barbarian enters. It's not that you hate magic, it's just that you don't understand it, or you are always worried that the next spell cast on you will be dominate person or phantasmal killer no matter how well you know your allied spell casters. Most of the time you can grit your teeth and suppress that fear of things unknown or beyond your control, but when you rage? No, you will not have any of it, and the adrenaline fueling that fear gives you the physical and mental overdrive you need to stop magic dead in its tracks.
Hmmm, this is a tricky one. The Rage Powers entry sets a universal rule, meaning Superstition would explicitly need an exception included. But by setting a condition for the penalty to occur (which should be assumed, set by Rage Powers) the exception for the bonus is inferred.
I imagine it will boil down to GM preference. From a game mechanics point of view, I would say the bonus follows the blanket "Rage Powers only while raging." But from any other angle, I would allow it. Is your superstition only supposed to have benefits when you can no longer fully use your cognitive abilities? That's just silly.
Flavor text aside, unless I am mistaken, EVERY SINGLE Rage power specifies that its ability only works while raging. Either it immediately begins with, "While raging..." or it says, "Once per rage..." or ends it with, "this ability only functions while raging."
I could be wrong on that, as I haven't taken the time to look at every single Rage power in the PRD, but I've just gone through damn near every single one, and Superstition is the only one that doesn't follow that- and even then, it DOES specify for the second half. It goes like this: "The Barbarian gets this benefit. While raging, it takes this penalty." Not to mention the penalty is a pretty hefty one- to the point where it seems likely the intent (especially when considering the wording, compared to every single other rage power out there) was for the benefit to be active the whole time. It seems pretty obvious to me that the blanket statement given regarding all rage powers wasn't taken into account when the rage powers themselves were written.
Edit: Alright, I found four Rage powers in the PRD (Guarded Stance, Intimidating Glare, Knockback, and Terrifying Howl- all originally from the Core Rulebook) that don't specify anything at all. However, I also found the Auspicious Mark Rage power, which reads as follows:
The barbarian has been marked by the spirits, as indicated by an impressive tattoo, scar, or birthmark she possesses. Once per rage, as a swift action that costs 2 rounds of rage, the barbarian can call upon the spirits’ favor. Using auspicious mark grants her a +1d6 bonus on one d20 roll she has just made. She can call on the auspicious mark after seeing the result of the d20 roll.
Emphasis mine. It follows the exact same format as Superstition. Does that mean that, RAW, she only possesses the tattoo, scar, or birthmark while in rage?
Hmmm, this is a tricky one. The Rage Powers entry sets a universal rule, meaning Superstition would explicitly need an exception included. But by setting a condition for the penalty to occur (which should be assumed, set by Rage Powers) the exception for the bonus is inferred.
I imagine it will boil down to GM preference. From a game mechanics point of view, I would say the bonus follows the blanket "Rage Powers only while raging." But from any other angle, I would allow it. Is your superstition only supposed to have benefits when you can no longer fully use your cognitive abilities? That's just silly.
Flavor text aside, unless I am mistaken, EVERY SINGLE Rage power specifies that its ability only works while raging. Either it immediately begins with, "While raging..." or it says, "Once per rage..." or ends it with, "this ability only functions while raging."
I could be wrong on that, as I haven't taken the time to look at every single Rage power in the PRD, but I've just gone through damn near every single one, and Superstition is the only one that doesn't follow that- and even then, it DOES specify for the second half. It goes like this: "The Barbarian gets this benefit. While raging, it takes this penalty." Not to mention the penalty is a pretty hefty one- to the point where it seems likely the intent (especially when considering the wording, compared to every single other rage power out there) was for the benefit to be active the whole time. It seems pretty obvious to me that the blanket statement given regarding all rage powers wasn't taken into account when the rage powers themselves were written.
Beast Totem's Natural Armour is the same. So its hardly the only power :P
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PRD wrote:
The barbarian has been marked by the spirits, as indicated by an impressive tattoo, scar, or birthmark she possesses. Once per rage, as a swift action that costs 2 rounds of rage, the barbarian can call upon the spirits’ favor. Using auspicious mark grants her a +1d6 bonus on one d20 roll she has just made. She can call on the auspicious mark after seeing the result of the d20 roll.
Emphasis mine. It follows the exact same format as Superstition. Does that mean that, RAW, she only possesses the tattoo, scar, or birthmark while in rage?
Nope. "A barbarian gains the benefits of rage powers only while raging".
Emphasis mine. Since the tatoo, scar or birthmark is not a benefit by itself, it does not fall under the "only while raging" condition.
For the same reason, the drawbacks of Superstition are written as "While raging" because otherwise they would be always there.
But the bonus to saves, which is a benefit of this rage power, does naturally fall under the "only while raging" condition.
Simple solution, Moment of Clarity allows you to at least one time per rage drop the requirement that you resist all spells.
I believed that too, but after re-reading Moment of clarity, it clearly suspends the benefits and drawbacks of the rage itself, and not those of the rage powers.
Which means, BTW, that you can still benefit from any rage power while using your Moment of Clarity becasue you are in fact still raging.
Moment of Clarity can still be useful in this case though if you are a caster with spells with Target=You as these do not usually allow a saving throw ;-)