Expectations for Arcadia

[Monrail]

Hello fellow golarionists,

What do you hope to see in Arcadia? I, for my part, sincerely hope that especially the northern part of Arcadia will not only - or even primarily- be a "natives vs. foreign settlers" affair, with some tidbits of Native American mythology strewn in.

I'm hoping for something really fresh and new, some new races with no mythological background at all and/or the presence of known races that have an unusual twist to them.

As the southern part of Arcadia is bound to resemble South America, there's sure to be some large jungle with semi-primitive civilizations sacrifing more or less willing tribesfolk to dark gods on top of their ziggurats in there, but there could also be so much more.

What are your ideas for this continent?

[Set]

Kara-Tur was a wildly disparate version of 'Oriental Adventures.'

Al-Qadim was a glorious and evocative rendition of 'Arabian Adventures.'

Nyambe was a lush depiction of 'African Adventures.'

Maztica was, IMO, flat and lifeless.

I don't know what I want from Arcadia, but I very much want it *not* to be like Maztica.

I'm a huge fan of Central and South American societies. Cliffside dwellings and kivas in the west are cool, but nothing we've got in North America really compares to Macchu Pichu or Teohtihuacan or Tenochtitlan (sp?) or whatever. I definitely would like to see some big impressive civilizations, and not just ruins or 'savages.' Sort of like Osirion in it's actual heyday, and not trying to recapture past glories.

I'm expecting that, similar to the Taldan nation-state stuck smack-dab in the middle of the Dragon Empires, that there will be an Ulfen community near some lake-front property in northern Arcadia. Perhaps the majority of Ulfen residents will dwell on an island offshore of mainland Arcadia (a Golarion equivalent of Greenland or Iceland) and only have a few 'hunting lodges' scattered on the mainland, using their longships to raid and then retreat to their fortified island.

[The NPC]

Let's see. We already have an Ulfen retirement community. After that... Plague, slavery, and centuries guilt? Look at a history book or the rest of the kitchen sink and you'll get a good idea of what's going on.

[GeraintElberion]

A god who really does reward the ritual sacrifice of sentient bipeds?

Massively deep caves filled with weird creatures and strange substances (a non-created darklands area with acid pools and glow in the dark beasties).

A supper-massive grand canyon with etire civilisations which never leave.

Vast plateaus high above jungle with complex techno-magical societies who exclude the tribal peoples from below.

A region with a powerful halfling-dominated community.

Bermuda Triangle

[TwiceGreat]

Bear people.

[FrankManic]

I INVOKE THE DREAD NERGAL TO RESSURECT THIS THREAD!

I'm hoping for some exploration of imperialism. Cheliax is an expy of Imperial Spain and Avistan as a whole is flirting with the European age of empire.

I had actually mis-remembered Asmodeus as having the Sun domain (Turns out it's fire) and thought it would be interesting to have the South-Arcadian sun-god require sacrifices to empower him to fight off Asmodeus and take custody of the sun every day. The idea was that Cheliax was invading Arcadia and taking advantage of massive political division in Arcadia to gradually overthrow and take control of the local empires. In support of the invasion Asmodeus dispatches troops and advisers from Hell.

For whatever reason the Arcadians are having trouble dealing with this invasion. Going with plagues is boring so lets say that Ulfen retirees and Azlanti refugees brougt whatever diseases a few thousand years ago, reducing the impact of any foreign illnesses. They also brought some metalworking, so bronze-working is widespread though not common.

In keeping with their historical counterparts the Arcadians would have no riding animals, putting them at a military disadvantage. But primarily they would be in the middle of a massive imperial conflict of their own, with the not-Aztecs facing uprisings from many of their client states. Cheliax is taking advantage of this division by presenting themselves as allies to the smaller kingdoms and gradually usurping control.

Eitherway, back to the sun-god thing (which won't work because Asmodeus isn't a sun god) the concept would be that as long as the Arcadian sun-god is able to fight off Asmodeus and take custody of the sun Asmodeus is unable to easily act on Arcadia. Thus his devils have difficulty remaining in the real world and his priests have trouble receiving their spells, putting the Cheliax invaders at a disadvantage. To win the fight every day the sun god needs sacrifices badly to boost his martial power.

So the not-Aztecs are trying to keep a steady stream of sacrifices while also holding together their many subject nations and fight off the Cheliax forces. The Asmodian clergy are infiltrating and trying to turn worship away from the Sun-God so they can gradually weaken him and restore full communications with Asmodeus. The kingdoms already under control of Cheliax are being pumped for manpower and reources and several gold and silver mines are already up and sending wealth back to Cheliax proper.

Basically the Spanish conquest of the Americas, but slower as the Arcadians haven't been devastated by super-plagues and have magic and some metallurgy to give them better military capabilities (not that the Americans were ineffective militarily).

In game this gives Cheliax an excuse to become quite powerful and sets up the possibility of Great Game style imperialism as the various nations of Avistan and Garund compete for valuable colonial resources.

The trick here is figuring out a way to make Avistani domination of Arcadian peoples believable without falling back on super-plagues to destroy Arcadian civilization a generation or two before imperialism kicks off. Because again - Super plagues aren't heroic or exciting.

As far as north Arcadia I'd extrapolate from the Mississippian culture to have large agricultural kingdoms and the Iroquois confederacies for well ordered and widespread federal governments. North American doesn't have the massive stone cities but it did have a large population of settled people with well organized governments.

[Cthulhudrew]

I'd rather not have any Avistani or foreign imperialism at all (or at least not any more than some scattered colonial holdings). I would much prefer to explore Arcadia as an America that might have developed, if left unchecked by European powers.

[Odraude]

We've actually been talking about Arcadia and gathering resources in this thread here.

[KtA]

Well, the Vikings didn't really do the imperialism thing in America, they weren't majorly successful.

Also, Golarion has magic, so both the disease thing (due to healing magic) and the tech disparity (since both sides likely have comparable magic) won't be nearly as significant.

[Echo Vining]

KtA wrote:

Well, the Vikings didn't really do the imperialism thing in America, they weren't majorly successful.

That's because Native Americans were able to fight off Viking raiders.

[Tacticslion]

Dotting for a later perusal, 'cause... time. :(
:)

[B.A. Ironskull]

I'd like to see exactly the opposite of what seems typical-

A land of high magic, mythic monsters, unchecked power claimed by tyrants and heroes both. Something epic and inspiring, not a rehash of Euro-USA history.

That's too easy- survive a raucous ocean voyage (ok, that part is difficult) and land ashore to discover...

A race of hobgoblins the size of giants.
Forests filled with werebears.
Floating cities.
Deserted villages.
Minotaur high society.
Brutal centaur marauders.
Cabals of medusae witches.
Humans cowering in lost Azlanti cities.
Legions of all the strange humanoids ranging about.
A mongrelman civilization, tending a lost Azlant city containing a portal to another plane.
Nex. Just sayin'.
New societies of humans, elves, halflings and dwarves that draw from Mayan and Aztec culture, as well as those of the lost tribes of Brazil.
Let's throw in a pile of rakshasas, why not? Make 'em vampires to boot.

Conquer that! Heck, try to find food that won't kill you, or that you aren't too proud to consume. The setting must account for the reality that returning home is not an option.

In short, a place where anything is possible, a place where every bestiary entry can exist, where the PCs are totally uncomfortable until they can truly explore the region. So many obstacles and barriers. The idea that PCs can roll up to a village and smallpox the population is timid. Another post mentioned magic- of course the natives would have access to it, too, great observation.

Like Avistan and Garund but raw- more savage and feral, disconnected from 99% of the current source material. A few Denizens of Leng, a thin veil to the First World, a hidden portal to Aballon, and undiscovered entrances to the Darklands and you've got yourself a campaign setting.

[Monrail]

B.A. Ironskull wrote:

I'd like to see exactly the opposite of what seems typical-

A land of high magic, mythic monsters, unchecked power claimed by tyrants and heroes both. Something epic and inspiring, not a rehash of Euro-USA history.

The same opinion here. You're showing some great ideas in your post.

I'm also all in for a great frontier setting with
- lots of weird stuff to explore and bizarre new monsters and races to encounter (would it actually be feasible to adopt some of the races found in the NeoExodus setting?),
- and/or familiar races being given a twist (as in civilized minotaurs vs. marauding centaurs, as described above),
- and/or less common races being given a more prominent role (like in, for example, a whole region dominated by bugbears, ogres, medusas, satyrs, tanuki, syrinx, ryven, grippli, etc.).

[KtA]

Jonathon Vining wrote:

KtA wrote:

Well, the Vikings didn't really do the imperialism thing in America, they weren't majorly successful.

That's because Native Americans were able to fight off Viking raiders.

As one factor, yeah, but the Vikings did have at least one settlement that lasted a while, so they weren't simply driven off. I thought the loss of Norse contact with the Americas had more to do with the Little Ice Age and the loss of the Norse settlements in Greenland?

(Also, they didn't seem to introduce diseases, which is big. Even the Spanish of Cortez's day might have been forced to deal more equally with the Mesoamerican/South American civilizations if they weren't weakened by disease. The technological advantage alone might not have been sufficient.)

[Samasboy1]

Well, Nurgal is a demon lord of warfare and the sun, whose worship was very important to the Azlanti.

So a pyramid-building, human-sacrificing, jungle dwelling society has a ready made patron right there.

[KahnyaGnorc]

KtA wrote:

Jonathon Vining wrote:

KtA wrote:

Well, the Vikings didn't really do the imperialism thing in America, they weren't majorly successful.

That's because Native Americans were able to fight off Viking raiders.

As one factor, yeah, but the Vikings did have at least one settlement that lasted a while, so they weren't simply driven off. I thought the loss of Norse contact with the Americas had more to do with the Little Ice Age and the loss of the Norse settlements in Greenland?

(Also, they didn't seem to introduce diseases, which is big. Even the Spanish of Cortez's day might have been forced to deal more equally with the Mesoamerican/South American civilizations if they weren't weakened by disease. The technological advantage alone might not have been sufficient.)

There are tribes in far northeastern Canada that have members with lighter skin, blue eyes, and/or lighter hair color. the Vikings in North America did what they did from Ireland to Russia . . . they assimilated.

Cortez wasn't successful due to disease. He was successful because so many of the tribes the Aztecs subjugated ALLIED with Cortez.