This has been brought up by one of my players and it's irked me that suspension of belief wasn't a good enough answer in explanation.
They're argument is that...
Undead/constructs are not affected by sight magic (smoke too I believe?) nor require their heads to see...it must mean that they're always blind because they have no senses...
How would you explain science on a magical creature?! Silly argument I know, just a bother that a player thinks I'm cheating.
Undead/constructs are not affected by sight magic (smoke too I believe?) nor require their heads to see...it must mean that they're always blind because they have no senses...
How would you explain science on a magical creature?!
The same magic that is allowing them to move without muscles, tendons, blood, and nerve impulses also lets them know where the delicious walking brains are, where those arrows are coming from, and what the symbol on the wooden disk someone is showing them represents.
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Where are you getting that they are not effected by sight magic and possibly smoke? From what I can see they are not effected by mind effecting, but I cannot find anything that says that sight based effect will not effect them.
Also, both the undead types and construct types have darkvision, which tells me that they are not blind at all.
Well, undead are ruled for most stats by their charisma score. Namely, Constitution, whih relates to bodily health. If they have no int score, then it probably also works for that. They likely "detect" their surroundings through their force of personality, especially if this score is high. It's sort of like spiritual echolocation. If something is completely mindless and has a Cha score of 1, then this is represented in the fact that they don't detect well- They just sort of smash at the first thing that comes near them.
Or, it could simply be magic. Almost all undead and constructs are made with magic. This magic could simply grant an arcane-eye like spell that grants them senses.
Or, their eyes could be metaphysical eyes. Incorpreal undead do not have light sensory organs, since they are formless. They can see just fine. Undead are mobile, and are so moved by an animus, which could also be in charge of their senses given that the thing they move is long incapable of sight. Or movement, for that matter. Essentially, the magic or spirit that moves the undead sees, not the basic flesh that is moved.
I just took a quick look at the rules for creature types and subtypes and I didn't notice anything about immunity to sight magic (unless you meant patterns and phantasms). Is it a quality of a specific monster you were using? If so which one?
Undead/constructs are not affected by sight magic (smoke too I believe?) [..]
Where did you read this? As far as I know, a Glitterdust spell does a perfectly fine job at blinding constructs or undead creatures.
Okay, let's see what I can pull out some orifice here...
For the same reason that the animated dead manage to walk with enough muscular precision to fight. The negative energy that fuels them recreates whatever systems they need to function as they did in life. Even if you can't see their eyes, they have "negative energy eyes" that see for them (that's the eerie red glow in skeletons' skulls for example). That it is simply a property of negative energy, that it can create antilife versions of living beings.
Golems and constructs are granted the same kind of "vision" a robot has--visual sensors that pick up imagery, the energy fueling these magical cameras being magic of course. You could even describe golems with camera lens eyes (made of nearly indestructable crystal of course).
An alternate answer:
"You're absolutely right. As a houserule, all undead and constructs now have blindsense and tremorsense."
I just took a quick look at the rules for creature types and subtypes and I didn't notice anything about immunity to sight magic (unless you meant patterns and phantasms). Is it a quality of a specific monster you were using? If so which one?
Sorry, I should have mentioned. I mean just that.
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I just took a quick look at the rules for creature types and subtypes and I didn't notice anything about immunity to sight magic (unless you meant patterns and phantasms). Is it a quality of a specific monster you were using? If so which one?Sorry, I should have mentioned. I mean just that.
It is not immune to those because of sight issues, but due to not having a mind to effect.
From the PRD on patterns and phantasms:
Pattern: Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells.
Phantasm: A phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive. This impression is totally in the minds of the subjects. It is a personalized mental impression, all in their heads and not a fake picture or something that they actually see. Third parties viewing or studying the scene don't notice the phantasm. All phantasms are mind-affecting spells.
They can see a pattern just fine, but it does nothing to them.
Also note that they are not immune to glamers or figments, as these only effect senses and not their mind. For example, invisibility is a glamer that only effect sight, and it will work against an undead just fine.
Pattern: Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells.
Phantasm: a phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive. This impression is totally in the minds of the subjects. It is a personalized mental impression, all in their heads and not a fake picture or something that they actually see. Third parties viewing or studying the scene don't notice the phantasm. All phantasms are mind-affecting spells.
These are only two of the five sub-schools of the illusion school. The answer is the fact that it deals with the mind of the creatures affected. Since constructs and undead are mindless, they are unaffected.
The argument comes that if they can be affected by sight and illusions. Wouldn't having no head render them senseless? Also, can constructs/undead be deafened (but how can they hear?).
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A monster's type (such as undead or construct) tells you what sort of effects it's immune to. If the type doesn't say "immune to illusions" or "immune to blindness/deafness," then it's not immune to those things.
Also, note that the ooze type says
• Blind (but have the blindsight special quality), with immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight.
whereas the construct and undead types DO NOT say that, so constructs and undead are not blind, and are thus not immune to gaze attacks and so on.