|
You don't need to grab improved unarmed strike unless you're taking it specifically for flavour. I would use either a cestus or a spiked gauntlet. Both of these can be held while wielding your musket.
Remember to put a skill rank into Craft (Alchemy) so you can make paper cartridges. You don't need to use them exclusively (although you'll want to once level 3 comes around) but it's handy to have them even at first level when you might want a little extra speed for a shot.
Remember also that you're proficient with all martial weapons. It doesn't hurt to have a big two-handed weapon lying around when it's not feasible to shoot.
For feats, I would definitely grab point-blank and precise shot. Touch ACs are pretty easy to hit, but it'll be a lot easier when you're not taking an automatic -4 against anything your allies have closed with. Point-Blank Shot is also the prerequisite for Rapid Shot, which you'll want once you're able to reload as a free action.
|
Better Idea. Take Catch Off Guard. Your Musket is now a 2handed Bludgeoning weapon doing 1d10+1(str) with a x2 crit. A) you can take this at level 1, B) you will never waste a grit point for pistolwhip (which sucks as a deed to begin with, but I won't go there)
Also : Deadly aim. yeah its nice you can always hit, but at early levels its important to ensure it hurts too. And you've got a while till you get to add your dex to damage.
|
|
Better Idea. Take Catch Off Guard. Your Musket is now a 2handed Bludgeoning weapon doing 1d10+1(str) with a x2 crit. A) you can take this at level 1, B) you will never waste a grit point for pistolwhip (which sucks as a deed to begin with, but I won't go there)
Also : Deadly aim. yeah its nice you can always hit, but at early levels its important to ensure it hurts too. And you've got a while till you get to add your dex to damage.
It depends whether you want instant pay-off or Rapid Shot at 3. Personally I'd rather have two shots at level 3 than have to wait until level 5, even if I get deadly aim a bit earlier.
Catch Off Guard is an interesting idea, but a ranged attack build is feat starved as it is. I would go with spiked armour or gauntlet, and just keep a greatsword in my bag in case of melee combat.
|
Read. The. Gunsmithing. Feat.
Not sure why everyone misses this, but the cost of making ammo is 10% of the book cost if you make it. Its not unreasonable to ask your DM if like a spellcaster you can spend an hour in the morning mixing and making X number of bullets and black powder doses for an hour. No checks...just cheap ammo.
|
|
Read. The. Gunsmithing. Feat.
Not sure why everyone misses this, but the cost of making ammo is 10% of the book cost if you make it. Its not unreasonable to ask your DM if like a spellcaster you can spend an hour in the morning mixing and making X number of bullets and black powder doses for an hour. No checks...just cheap ammo.
Yeah, 1.1gp per shot, or 6gp a shot if you use paper cartridges. Please be polite.
|
|
Shield Proficiency is not required. A gunslinger without shield proficiency can use a masterwork buckler with no penalty. You don't really want to be using anything bigger than that because you need a free hand to reload. For a musket master I'd say dodge and mobility are also pretty low priority, as you can stand up to 40 feet away (80 feet for the low cost of 1 grit point).
I would go with
1 Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload (Two-handed firearm)
2
3 Rapid Shot (from here on out, use paper cartridges to get two shots per full attack)
4 Deadly Aim
5 Weapon Focus: Musket
6
7 Iron Will/Extra Grit
8 Improved Critical (Musket)
9 Improved Iron Will/Improved Initiative
10
11 Signature Deed
For melee, it's not worth spending a feat. Not only could you wear a spiked gauntlet if you feel like it, but drawing a weapon is a move action (that can be combined with another move action if you choose) that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I dont understand why everyone thinks muskets werent made for using in melee? They were essentially one shot weapons that were mostly used as pikes. Plenty of butt stroking, and bayonet use. Heck you can see it regularly in any period movie. Why is it such a hard concept to get your head around? Its nothing more than a club without bullets, or a spear if you have a bayonet.
I have a pistolero, lvl 4.
Human
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Reload
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
and the GM gave us the option to have an Enemy for a feat (and he'll use him a lot), so I got TWF
deadly aim I'll take at lvl 5
if you want to fight in melee with guns, you need the feat Sword and Pistol. but it has some steep requirements
I have a pistolero, lvl 4.
Human
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Reload
Precise Shot
Rapid Shotand the GM gave us the option to have an Enemy for a feat (and he'll use him a lot), so I got TWF
What is TWF for?
One cannot load the pistol if the other hand holds a weapon. The only thing i thought of might be 2 pepperbox pistols (6 shots each), firing 2,3,6 rounds 3,2,1 shot each (depending on level) and afterwards reloading them (spend a move action to sheath one pistol, spending free actions to reload one with cartridges, spend a move action to sheath the loaded one, free action to draw the other and free actions to load it, next round free action quick draw and be ready with 2 guns).
But before level 13 its bad due to higher misfire chance and afterwards its not that good anymore (reloading every 3rd round, so 12 shots in 3 rounds= 4 shots per round, you get that for no feats and with increased AC anyway at lev 16.)
deadly aim I'll take at lvl 5if you want to fight in melee with guns, you need the feat Sword and Pistol. but it has some steep requirements
Why not deft shootist?
Mobility qustionable, but dodge good and having 1 grit point looks like a good idea for a few other deeds.
And its better AC with buckler or shield.And most importantly having a weapon in one hand and pistol in the other raises the free hand reload problem.
I don't use pepperboxes, those things are filled with devil's trickery (aka giant misfire)!
Our DM is kinda generous with money, so I built 2 revolvers. One-hand advanced weapons already reload at move-action, and with Rapid Reload I'm at free-action. Thing is, you can rotate your left hand gun around the trigger and reload the right hand weapon (while that one put off the chamber). With pistols... that's a problem. Something to talk about with the DM.
I don't think about Deft Shootist because Gunslingers are already feat-starved; I rather have a lot of ranks in acrobatics and get out of the mess than spending the feats I could use for more damage. I already have a MW buckler :)
Am I crazy that I put my highest stat in Wisdom at first level in order to maximize grit pool, knowing that my BAB would make up for my lower Dex bonus? Also realizing that I can raise that as I level? I put a higher odd numbered stat (which you don't seem to have) in Dex for the modifier increase when I can get it.
This way I also maximize my Will Saves, which are poor for a Gunslinger.
You don't get half your level to grit, but I agree with going Dex > Wis, since Dex gives you hit, damage, init, AC, reflex, while Wis gives you Grit and will (and both give you bonuses to some great skills).
Also, if you're using point buy, it's more efficient to always point up your best score. You're better off lowering your highest stat to boost others, since it'll net you more points in PB, rather than starting with it maxed, then using your lvl4 bump to turn an 11 into a 12 or something silly like that. Assuming of course, you expect to be playing the character for a long time. There is potential short term gain using your PB in other ways.
Don't go WIS > DEX. You should talk to your DM - allowing Daring Act gives you many situations to 'be cool' (in a way that other folks will like too!) and to recover grit.
Our DM is kinda generous with money, so I built 2 revolvers. One-hand advanced weapons already reload at move-action, and with Rapid Reload I'm at free-action. Thing is, you can rotate your left hand gun around the trigger and reload the right hand weapon (while that one put off the chamber). With pistols... that's a problem. Something to talk about with the DM.
Isn't he even more generous with the rules?
I was thinking about sword and gun vs deft shootist. Sword and gun looks less useful and requires also feats.
I don't think about Deft Shootist because Gunslingers are already feat-starved; I rather have a lot of...
But the feats it requires are in the Snap Shot line. Personally, I think AaO shootin' at 10 ft. is more useful than +1 AC and Mobility.
|
|
No one opting for pistolero with light shield?I'd suggest a buckler instead as it's a little easier to use. I guess if you wanted something you could bash with the shield would be okay.Imjust thinking that for threatening so flanking is possible,it would be useful. Bur armor spikes do that as well and have more dam. But they have a weight problem, 10 lbs is a lot.
Rules question:
Firing and reloading during turn, can the light shield without spikes be used for flanking effects and AoOs (though the latter of course make the shield AC bonus go away and are not very effective.)
You could do that, although another alternative is to wield a cestus. Goes like this:
1 - Equip buckler in one hand, cestus in other. Wield pistol in cestus hand.
2 - Fire off rounds with pistol, reloading with free buckler hand as needed.
3 - Transfer pistol to buckler hand (free action) for possible AoO with cestus.
Ok, I wanted to read everything everyone wrote but I gave up, so here is my answer to the original post :
1 - I would clearly use a pistolero! I don't understand why you say that you "lose nimble". I have read the rules over and over and I can't find that rule. On the other hand, I really like te precision dammage (which you eventually can do at will if you take the signature deed for up close and deadly)and the two-handed pistol thing.
2 - Here are my selection of feats for one of my pre-made character (human gunslinger):
1) Deadly aim & Rapid reload
3) Dodge
4) Point blank shot
6) Quick draw
8) Precise shot
9) Mobility
12) Signature deed (up close) & Exotic weapon mastery (firearms)
I leave the other feats empty because I still like to be a little spontaneous!
3 - I don't understand why you say you need Str to use a chain shirt. I've never heard of such a thing. Again, can you tell me which page this rule is on please? Meanwhile, I would suggest that you start with a studded armor and eventually buy yourself a mithral chain shirt (which is supposed to be lighter, so I guess you would need less Str as well).
4 - Here are the ability scores I recommend (if you don't need the str for any armor)
Str: 9
Dex: 18 (I used my humain bonu here, I will buy 2 points of dex eventually)
Con: 10 (I may eventually put 2 points in Con)
Int: 12 (for crafting and skills)
Wis: 16
Cha: 7 (because there is surely gonna be a bard/sorcerer/oracle/summoner in my group that will have a lot of CHA)
5 - I don,t know if you give a f$+# but I'll also tell you about my strating gear :
-Battered pistol (with 20 ammo and powder that my GM gives me)
-Rations
-Waterskin
-Studded leather
-Gunsmithing kit
-Daggers (we never know)
-Rapier (I might take the weapon finesse feat one day)
You have a cool equipement for only 70.5 gp (which is wayyyyyyy above the gunslinger's average)
I hope I could help you!
Sorry for the double post...
I wanted to clarify something about the two-weapon thingy that seems to bother some people : when you have enough money, it is easy to have a lot of pistols. Only use Quick draw and you can take out your already loaded double-barrel pistols and fire up to 4 shots (and even make a pistol whip). Indeed, I hunt sometimes with my father and we use a nose-filled (or I don,t how the f~#+ you may call them) rifle, and even if you jump with it or shake it like a mad man, the bullet/powder stay inside.
Therefore, if you are level 9 (and your GM lets you gain some money), you are suppose to have something like 40 000 (see Character Advancement : http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement). A MWK pistol takes three days and 1200 gp to build. This means a freaking lots of mwk double barrel pistols! You can load them all and keep them on you so that you can do the 4 shots I talked about in your round, then drop them the other round (free action) and get neww ones (swift action). You can even fire another time at you enemy's face.
If you don,t like the way a two-weapon gunslinger works, don't bother using it, but I find it pretty usefull!
|
Forget melee. You are a gunslinger, 5ft. step back and use your gun. In all 8 levels of my PFS gunslinger, I have been forced into melee maybe three times. And if you are, oh well eat the AoO I highly doubt your opponent has Combat Reflexes.
As for your 14 Str, forget chain shirts. I'd suggest stats like this:
Str: 10
Dex: 18 (16 +2 race)
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 8
Why is Str not a problem? Because your Dex will be so high you'll only need leather armor. At level 8 you should have 20 Dex and a +4 stat belt. +7 Dex armor bonus = Leather. Also, because you're playing a gunslinger gunslinger style you don't need any melee weapons.
As for feats, the gunslinger is not feat starved (i.e. cannot get enough feats), they get enough feats. The trick is selecting them in the best order. For a pistolero you could try this:
1st: Rapid Reload Human Bonus: Point Blank Shot
3rd: Deadly Aim
4th: Rapid Shot/Precise Shot
5th: Rapid Shot/Precise Shot
7th: Weapon Focus/Snap Shot
8th: Quick Draw/Improved Snap Shot
9th: Improved Critical/Combat Reflexes
Try to grab a double pistol ASAP. Choosing Precise or Rapidshot depends much on your party and money situation. As for Weapon Focus or Snap Shot line, depends on your party tactics. Personally I favor forgetting Snap Shot. Put a distance enchantment on your pistol and keep enemies at 40ft. You'll be doing enough damage there's no reason to kill foes as they move towards you, let your melee allies have some fun ;)
Grit is a bonus, not a necessity. You will have plenty of Grit at 2. Even if your GM doesn't allowing daring actions (it's not allowed in PFS) 2 is great. Use Up Close And Deadly when you have 2, never spend your 1 except for emergencies. You'll quickly kill something and get that Grit back.
|
|
Why is Str not a problem? Because your Dex will be so high you'll only need leather armor. At level 8 you should have 20 Dex and a +4 stat belt. +7 Dex armor bonus = Leather. Also, because you're playing a gunslinger gunslinger style you don't need any melee weapons.
darkleaf cloth studded leather is max dex +7, no armor penalty, ac +3, 10 lbs, 775gp, and counts as masterwork if you want to add to it later..
Hi guys, I'm new to Pathfinder and RPGing. I've chose to build a gunslinger character (as a backup to my main). In the game that I'm playing, my GM allows one feat at every level. Because of that benefit, what would be the optimal build be for my gunslinger? Thanks for the advice.
Feats were taken in this order:
Precise Shot & Point Blank (human bonus feat)
Rapid Reload
Rapid Shot
Improved Initiative
Extra Grit (i'll explain)
Improved Critical
Vital Strike
So I'm kind of new, so my apologies in advance if I say something wrong.
But, first, isn't Rapid Reload automatically granted to you at 1st level if you take the Musket Master Archetype?
Secondly, wouldn't you take Vital Strike before Improved Critical as Vital Strike requires a +6 BAB and Improved Critical requires a +8 BAB -- each available at Gunslinger levels 6 and 8 respectively?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
As a heads up to everyone who wants to take deadly aim for their gunslinger, bad news. It's specifically errata'ed to not work in conjunction with touch attacks. So within the first range increment (or first five with advanced firearms) its useless, OR, you are trading firearms major advantage over archers (resolving vs touch attack).
Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target's touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms have a maximum range of five range increments.
|
Be an ifrit! gunpowder is your birthright
+2 dexTraits: reactionary + outlander = +4 init
(and unlike for most characters these make sense for a ifrit)
Gunslinger initiative = +2 init
Wildfire Heart (ifrit sub)= +4 init
Duelling Gloves = +4 init
Improved Initiative = +4 init
Ifrit Gunslinger fav class: + half level to initiative
= +18 and half level to initiative + your maxed out dex.
Trait bonuses don't stack with each other. You can only get +2 init from traits.
|
Don't forget a lot of races can take 1/4 grit as favored class bonus. So at level four you get a grit for the exchange of 4 hp or 4 skill points. See the ARG.
Depending on how high you plan to play, Toughness is worth more than Extra Grit. By level 12, you have an extra 3 grit and 12 hp, while if you take Extra Grit, you 12 hp and only 2 extra grit.
I'm not there yet, but my musket master is aiming for both Improved Snap Shot (15 feet of AoO), and Signature Deed (Deadshot), but I think Deadshot is totally underrated, especially if no grit expenditure is required.
Using a bullet with Deadshot cuts the expenses by a lot. In addition, you all but eliminate the chance for a misfire.
I have been playing a Musket Master for a few months and I think my build is pretty OP.
I call it my Back up bird build
Musket Master (Lvl 8)
Race: Tengu, +2 dex, +2 Wis (grit)-2 con
Stats: Str-12,Dex-18,Con-13,Int-12,Wis 18,Cha 12 (
Group rolled for stats.I put +1 at 4th and 8th into STr and Wis
I regret putting a 15 in con to start, but I'm a newb
Armor:MW Mithral Shirt
Items: Bracers of Falcons Aim (+3 to per,+1 to ranged att), Endless Bandolier
Weapon: Double Barrel Musket (Magic +1)
Feats:
Lvl 1 -Rapid Reload(free), Point Blank Shot
Lvl 3 - Precise Shot
Lvl 4- Weapon Focus
Lvl 5 -Rapid Shot
Lvl 7 -Snap Shot
Lvl 8 - Combat Reflexes
So basically I took the bonuses to hit to eliminate the penalty for Rapid shot (stacked with Falcons Aim bracers I rarely miss), but the beauty of this is with snap shot and combat reflexes I can make multiple AoO with low penalties and NOT provoke. That's 5 AoO which assures that I am within range to almost everyone and I'm not overly fearful of melee. If its confusing I think they clarified it earlier with the cartridges. With rapid reload and Musket Training Alchemical cartridges make reloading a FA!! Endless bandolier allows me to store multiple cartridges and hide musket when not in combat.
My future plans are: Improved Snap shot - 10 ft threat, and try to find a wizard to create and endless bag of ammo for me
Please feel free to tell me if i'm doing something wrong I'm a 4e guy and this is only my second PF character.
|
|
This will probably get more laughs than approvals, but for my Gunslinger in PFS, I took exotic weapon prof: Lasso. It is like a net, but easier to break. Also, more in line with my 'I wanna be the most generic cowboy I could think of.'
So far, it has been pretty useful. Sure, I lose a round of pew pew, but I make it up by pretty much always screwing up any casters we run into. I want to pick up some different kinds of lassos eventually, since I invested a point into it. Ghosttouch Lasso (for ghost lassoing), Adamantine Lasso (so it is harder to break), etc.
You do nothing wrong. Make sure you take teh deft shootist deed or point blank master (the latter requires a fighetr dip) in order to not provoke AoOs from firing at melee. Deadly Aim should be also eventually picked up.
I think after I get improved snap shot. I will start picking up more damage feats like Deadly Aim. I'm not sure when I would dip into fighter. Mostly because I like hitting a bonus feat every 4 and I don't plan on firing in melee unless its an AoO which doesn't provoke with snap shot. So far in melee I either use my rapier or simply pistol whip. Pistol whip has been nice with the barbarian in our party since pistol whip sometimes knocks them prone.
My logic is that in order to maximise your snap shot feat tree, you want to stand in the frontlines alongside with your martials. This will force you many times in position that you cannot just 5-foot out of melee range, and having deft shootist or pb master will let you continue shooting without having to fall back on your back-up melee weapon (which is nowhere near as effective).
The best lvls to dip outof Gunslinger for fighter lvls are right now (after the 8th lvl), as you have taken the bonus feat and the next few lvls are not very interesting, or after the 13th lvl (at 11th lvl you have access to the signature deed feat, at 12th lvl you have a bonus feat and at 13th you ignore all misfires). I would probably dip out right now in order to take faster all the feats that have been mentioned, especially if it is for PFS play where you will not get to enjoy much your high lvl features.
That is something to consider. So far in my group when I cant 5ft step I have gone full retreat.Our group doesn't have a tank so I usually pull everyone in kill as much as possible and dip out when it gets hairy.
|
What I'm doing with mine is going 8 levels of musket master and 3 levels of Luring Cavalier because with it you get Careful Aim: At 3rd level, when a luring cavalier makes a ranged attack with his highest base attack bonus, he can ignore the penalties for firing up to three range increments away. If he is using a firearm, he can target touch AC up to two range increments away. This effect stacks with effects that allow the cavalier to make ranged attacks farther without penalty or that allow him to target touch AC with a firearm beyond the first range increment. Then again I wanted to make him like a buffalo soldier.