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I figure this has already been asked and answered, but I haven't found it.
We had a Ranger level 2 use a wand of cure light wounds. He felt he could since cure light was on his spell list.
The others felt he had to use use magic device skill to use the wand, since his spell list was not available to him until he reaches level 4.
Which is correct?
The Ranger is correct.
Wands are spell-trigger items, which merely require that the spell appear on a class's list, regardless of if they actually have spells yet.
(He would still need to be level 4 to use a scroll, though, because that is a spell-completion item.)
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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A level 1 ranger can use the wand of cure light wounds.
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
A ranger/rogue can even sneak attack a ghost with that wand of cure light wounds. You probably know somebody who's done that :)
EDIT: Ross can also sneak attack the ranger/rogue with a post.
EDIT: Ross can also sneak attack the ranger/rogue with a post.
I only beat you because I didn't bother to look up the rules quote, so you get bonus points for that.
I have always ruled that the toon must be able to cast the spell normally before he can use the wand. Otherwise it's a use magic device check.
Under UMD in skills it states that normally you must be able to cast the spell from your spell list. You do not have a spell list until you are level 4 with rangers or paladins. This is important to know when playing a Bard as well as you have spells that are both Divine and Arcane, however you can only cast from spells on your list.
Alternatively sorcerors will have to wait until lvl 4 to be able to cast 2nd level wands just like they have to wait to level 4 cast level 2 spells while wizards can cast them at level 3.
And that's a perfectly acceptable house rule, and does make sense. However, as Charlie quoted above, the rules for spell trigger items specifically call out that you do not have to be able to cast the spell yet to be able to use the item. You only have to have the spell somewhere on the class' entire spell list.
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I have always ruled that the toon must be able to cast the spell normally before he can use the wand. Otherwise it's a use magic device check.
You are, of course, welcome to houserule as you wish. The rules citation that Charlie provided above says otherwise for those wishing the reply per the rules.
Under UMD in skills it states that normally you must be able to cast the spell from your spell list. You do not have a spell list until you are level 4 with rangers or paladins.
Yes, you do have a spell list. See above. The spell list is class specific, not character specific. You do not have a caster level, tho. And thus cannot use scrolls or other spell completion items.
This is important to know when playing a Bard as well as you have spells that are both Divine and Arcane, however you can only cast from spells on your list.
Bards have no divine spells on their list. Bards cast arcane spells. If a bard casts cure light woulds, it is an arcane spell. Wands don't matter if arcane or divine in any case.
Alternatively sorcerors will have to wait until lvl 4 to be able to cast 2nd level wands just like they have to wait to level 4 cast level 2 spells while wizards can cast them at level 3.
This, again, is your houserule. No pejorative statement here, just trying to avoid confusing the OP and other players looking for information about how to play in games other than yours. :)
Bards have no divine spells on their list. Bards cast arcane spells. If a bard casts cure light woulds, it is an arcane spell. Wands don't matter if arcane or divine in any case.
But bards HAVE Cure Light Wounds? So tricky, n'est-ce-pas?
Clerics with the strength domain can cast enlarge person that doesn't make it an arcane spell. The source of the magic is what determines arcane/divine not the magic effect.
On the wands issue, all it does is let people use utility wands for the most part, a ranger or paladin 90%+ of the time is going to be fighting in combat or moving to get into fighting position. Being able to use disposable heal sticks (wands of CLW) happens after the fight to get everyone moving again faster.
Temples should really sell wands of CLW in a vending machine the way high level characters go through them.
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But bards HAVE Cure Light Wounds? So tricky, n'est-ce-pas?
Bards have no divine spells on their list. Bards cast arcane spells. If a bard casts cure light woulds, it is an arcane spell. Wands don't matter if arcane or divine in any case.
Yes they do. And when they cast it, it is an arcane spell. The spell title, or the idea that CLW is usually cast by a divine caster (cleric, paladin, ranger, druid), is irrelevant. Not tricky at all.
I thought rangers and paladins don't have spell lists until 4th level?
So this means that a Sorcerer can use a wand of magic missile without a UMD check even if they didn't choose the spell as a spell known? Because it's on their list of spells they can learn?
Just want to clarify.
I thought rangers and paladins don't have spell lists until 4th level?
While it is absolutely true that Paladins and Rangers do not have any available spells to cast until 4th level, it is trivial to show that those classes have spell lists (you can look them up in the CRB). And for spell trigger items (such as wands), the inability to personally cast spells does not prevent their use just because the character cannot do so yet.
Essentially, as long as their class grants spell casting (even if not at their current level in the class) and the spell in question exists on their class spell list, they can use spell trigger items containing that spell without resorting to UMD.
While it is absolutely true that Paladins and Rangers do not have any available spells to cast until 4th level, it is trivial to show that those classes have spell lists (you can look them up in the CRB). And for spell trigger items (such as wands), the inability to personally cast spells does not prevent their use just because the character cannot do so yet.
Essentially, as long as their class grants spell casting (even if not at their current level in the class) and the spell in question exists on their class spell list, they can use spell trigger items containing that spell without resorting to UMD.
I guess my assumption was based on the utter lack of a caster level before 4th level, which to me suggests that they're not casters at all until that point, and noncasters tend not to have spell lists. Do you know if there's an official ruling on this anywhere? I totally agree that your reasoning is grounded in the text.
Edit: My questioning here has nothing to do with my comprehension of how wands work. On that issue, I'm on the same page as you are, and as the rules are.
Flak: Yes, there's an official ruling. See the 3rd post in this thread (by Charlie Bell). That post contains a quote of the rule, which uses a 3rd-level paladin in its example.
Edit: Alternatively, see page 458 of the CRB, top right (under "Spell Trigger").
Somehow totally missed that that was quoted rules text. Got it :)
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I have always ruled that the toon must be able to cast the spell normally before he can use the wand. Otherwise it's a use magic device check.
Under UMD in skills it states that normally you must be able to cast the spell from your spell list. You do not have a spell list until you are level 4 with rangers or paladins. This is important to know when playing a Bard as well as you have spells that are both Divine and Arcane, however you can only cast from spells on your list.
Alternatively sorcerors will have to wait until lvl 4 to be able to cast 2nd level wands just like they have to wait to level 4 cast level 2 spells while wizards can cast them at level 3.
Toon?
Toon?I have always ruled that the toon must be able to cast the spell normally before he can use the wand. Otherwise it's a use magic device check.
Under UMD in skills it states that normally you must be able to cast the spell from your spell list. You do not have a spell list until you are level 4 with rangers or paladins. This is important to know when playing a Bard as well as you have spells that are both Divine and Arcane, however you can only cast from spells on your list.
Alternatively sorcerors will have to wait until lvl 4 to be able to cast 2nd level wands just like they have to wait to level 4 cast level 2 spells while wizards can cast them at level 3.
Toon (n. vul. slang): MMORPG term for character. From "cartoon". Only recently used to describe characters in tabletop games (where a "cartoon image" of a character is quite rare).
I heared it used in RPGs but that was a cartoon RPGs called teenagers from outer space. It's in fact very fun but everyone just wants to play and I lack the ideas for andentures to GM it. [/offtopic]