Some ways to increase your damage:
Feats
1) Vital strike tree
2) bloody Assault
3) Deadly Aim
4) Piranha Strike
5) Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave
6) Double Slice
7) Gang Up
8) Jaguar Pounce
9) Mounted Skirmisher combined with Spirited Charge
Talents
1) Bleeding Attack
2) Powerful Sneak, Deadly Sneak
3) Opportunist (combined with Combat Patrol might be able to give you some more mobility)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
I think you're misunderstanding the Scout archetype, probably because it has the same name as a 3.5 base class that worked sort of like a rogue and had a similar movement based sneak attack power.
You don't lose sneak attack. You can still sneak attack flatfooted or flanked foes, just like a normal rogue. The only thing you give up as a Scout is Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge.
So the damage potential of the Scout is actually better, since you get to Sneak Attack more often than a vanilla rogue.
|
I'm completely new to Pathfinder, and am about to start my first game.
I'd like to roll a Rogue with the Scout Archetype. The biggest difference between Scouts in Pathfinder and in 3.5e seems to be that the Pathfinder doesn't get extra movement speed. OK, not a huge deal (fights are generally not in a huge space anyway).
Here's my concern though... Without dipping into 3.5e stuff, it seems like there's no way to give a scout a "pounce" attack. That is, doing a full attack after moving.
The best I've thought of would be using the revised Cleave to get a second attack, which is definitely pretty good.
But comparing a vanilla pathfinder Rogue, who at 15+ gets 3 attacks (all potentially sneak attacks), with a Scout, which would only get 1 (or two with cleave)... it seems like I'd be "shooting myself in the foot" to choose this path.
Are there some feats I don't see that would give me a full-round attack after a charge, etc? Or any other way to overcome the huge damage potential difference between the two?
Thanks!
I have a Rogue (Scout) / Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager w/ Beast Totem Rage Power Chain) / Chevalier PrC character that works pretty well. Haven't got his Barb levels up to Pounce (Beast Totem Greater) yet, but with Rogue 4/Chevalier 3 he gets Sneak Attack + no AC penalty + first-round morale bonus when he opens up with a charge. PF sneak attack can be applied to multiple attacks in a full-attack action, so when he gets Pounce he'll be pretty scary, moreso if he's Smiting.
There are probably more optimized builds out there, but this one fit his character concept to a T.
I really like the feat Shot on the Run with Scout. You can move 10', throw a dagger or javelin at them with sneak attack damage, then close to melee range so that you threaten attacks of opportunity.
Keep in mind about rogues and multiple attacks that:
- They don't get as many iterative attacks as the fighters.
- Each later attack is less likely to hit.
- Attacks are only worthwhile if they apply sneak attack damage.
In actual play, there are a ton of times that moving and taking a single attack with sneak (about 25 damage at 10th level, and apply a talent) is better than holding still and taking two attacks without (about 5 damage each, and the second will probably miss).
Personally I only like two builds of combat rogue, a two-weapon fighter who dedicates everything (feats, talents, magic) to getting full round attacks, or a scout.
Personally I only like two builds of combat rogue, a two-weapon fighter who dedicates everything (feats, talents, magic) to getting full round attacks, or a scout.Yeah, it seems like if you try to really get the "best of both" worlds, you're not gonna do as well. I rather like the idea of a bladed scout. It's very badass, run-and-gun :)
Sneak attack is pretty epic though, I've seen some crazy damage happen due to multiple attacks.
Thanks :)
Combine this with a high dex, combat reflexes, combat patrol, and lunge and you got some real extra swings on you.
Also you should look into the Following Step, it allows you to take a ten foot movement as an immediate action and keep your five foot for the next round
Although the above still only grants you sneak with the first attack if they arent flanked or flat footed it is still nice to have when they arent.
Scout can be down right staggering
scouts also synergize with spring attack. especially when you find a way to get a speed of 40 feet or better. 1 level of barbarian helps in this regard. as do certain homebrew/3rd party races
Are you sure you'll have a chance to use mounted combat in the game? It's kinda hard to work that in, because most combat doesn't take place in wide open places.
Also, if I were DM, I'd rule that you can't deal sneak attack damage with mounted combat. Charging on a huge horse at someone is about the least subtle thing you could possibly do, and provides very little time to precisely aim. The "extra damage" from a charge is already done in the x2 from a lance. All the reports of charges I've read have basically been the guy saying "You just hold the lance straight, and try to stay on."
I'd recommend not building a mounted rogue (even if the DM would allow SA to apply), just because it's boxing your character in so much. Negotiations go sour? You suddenly can't do as much damage as your build should allow. Dungeon crawl? Goodbye horse.
Alternatively, if you aren't dead set on being a rogue, look into the Mobile Fighter archetype. At level 11, they get to combine a full-attack action with a single move action (they drop their highest attack though). If you're hasted (and you should be), that penalty is taking away. Sure you won't get the sneak attack damage, but the fighter will be pumping out more damage anyways. (Probably.)
To respond to the question about Mounted Skirmisher and charging:
It would seem that if your mount charges for less than their move speed, you could take the full-round attack.
Here's Scout's Charge:
"At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability."
Here's Skirmisher:
"At 8th level, whenever a scout moves more than 10 feet in a round and makes an attack action, the attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target was flat-footed. If the scout makes more than one attack this turn, this ability only applies to the first attack. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability."
Scout's Charge specifically says "her attack", not "her attacks".
I'm not certain Scout's Charge would take effect when mounted. Here's the part about mounted charges:
"If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge)."
It seems that the mount is charging, not you.
So Skirmisher would work on the first attack of Mounted Skirmisher.
I'm currently running a Halfling Rogue who has been struggling with everything getting hacked to pieces by our Barbarian and the rest of the party by the time I'm able to get into position for a sneak attack so I'm going to be going with the Scout from here on out to try to mobilize it up. It does suck to lose Uncanny Dodge, but I think the ability to be worthwhile from turn 1 will be a pretty huge help - especially once I get my mitts on a pair of Boots of Striding and Springing!
This profile has a build detailed that I plan on using in an ongoing game using these:
Rogue Archetypes: Knife Master/Scout
Alchemist Archetypes: Beastmorph/Vivisectionist
You basically take rogue to 4 for the charge, and then beastmorph/vivisectionist the rest of the way. At 14 (a level earlier than the example 15+, triple-attacking rogue) you can charge and pounce, make your attacks, 3 if TWF, or even 4 with Improved TWF (granted some of thsee will likely miss), all potentially sneak attacks. And with Crippling Strike no less!
Personally, at this point I may even dip into Shadowdancer to get my Uncanny Dodge back. Or you can go back to rogue to get another advanced talent.
I do not max characters unless it fits my concept. I have worked on a Scout build for over a week and thought I would post this build for anyone who would like to give me advice but I think this is fairly solid. I wanted a scout that could melee and missile attack as well, but the focus is more on missile attacks. We play high power games so I almost always take Toughness, it has saved me several times.
Stats focus: Str & Dex , then Con and Int.
Human
1-(F)Toughness
1-(F)Point Blank Shot
2-(T)Weapon Training - weapon focus
3-(F)Precise Shot
4-(T)Bleeding Attack
4-(Scout charge ability)
5-(F)Focused Shot
6-(T)Combat Trick - Two Weapon Fighting
7-(F)Double Slice
8-(T)Snap Shot
8-(Scout move 10ft and sneak ability)
Make a rogue(scout) 4 and monk (any) 8 (I only play to level 12, but you could go as high as you like) so as to utilize greater movement as well as flurry of blows each attack with sneak attack, and pair those with pummeling strike and pummeling charge so as to utilize the scouts charge ability. This allows you, with no magic items, to make 4 flurry attacks at 1d10 each after charging up to 100ft.