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Is the Gamemastery Guide an official Rul;es source for PFS. My specific interest is in the drunkenness rules, but I am sure there are other pertinent rules that could come in handy.
By AP 31 a drunk character should be treated as sickened.
while AP 31 is not in chapter 13 the sickened condition is part of the RAW and a GM is free to adjudicate it as appropiate under particular conditions.
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I cast Resurrect Thread! I have to make a caster level check due to its age.
With the new Occult Adventures, I finally found a class and character idea I'd like to move forward with. I bought the book mainly because I wanted to have a reference source in case it comes up in a scenario I'll GM. However giving it a go I got this idea, and I know sharing means fellow players may by all means take the idea, its a fun one.
Her name is Sunshine Daydream and she is a Psychic, specifically a Psychedelia Psychic. One of the first level abilities lets you take only half damage from ability damage when consuming drugs and gives you a +4 to avoid getting addicted.
Great ability, lots of fun in this idea, however there aren't any drugs readily available. Oh sure, some are spread out in the Rival Guide and the Alchemy Manual, even a couple in Familiar Folio. But the fun ones are in the Gamemastery Guide.
This is my petition for Campaign staff to re-review the Gamemastery Guide after 5 years to consider adding some Drugs to the Additional Resources.
Its worth noting that addiction is or could be a condition, so playing around with this kind of stuff is gonna cost someone at least 1 prestige on a failed save versus that addiction or at least some gold paying for a remove disease/poison.
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I wouldn't say it is a particularly bad idea, I am sure there are tons of character ideas that could be opened up by this however maybe up here in Washington things are just a bit more relaxed.
My question still stands about asking campaign management to give the Gamemastery Guide a second chance in terms of sanctioning. 5 years is a considerable amount of time.
Aren't drugs (or at least Opium) more effective poisons for your weapons than actual poisons by the GMG rules?
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Aren't drugs (or at least Opium) more effective poisons for your weapons than actual poisons by the GMG rules?
Yes, opium is quite strong, I could further clarify and ask for only inhaled/ingested drugs be made legal. That would tone it down a bit on the cheap purchasing of drugs.
Or similar to how only people with Poison Use can buy poisons readily, only people with the drug mechanics built into the class can buy drugs readily!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I'm a teacher. I've run role-playing games for my students, sometimes as an after-school organization, and sometimes through the local community center.
I would assert that implementing Codanous' idea would raise awareness of psychedelia psychics. All it would take is one supervisor walking past and imagining that we were conducting a role-playing game in which characters took drugs. That would make it tremendously more likely that PFS would be banned from most of the places I've hosted games.
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I'm a teacher. I've run role-playing games for my students, sometimes as an after-school organization, and sometimes through the local community center.
I would assert that implementing Codanous' idea would raise awareness of psychedelia psychics. All it would take is one supervisor walking past and imagining that we were conducting a role-playing game in which characters took drugs. That would make it tremendously more likely that PFS would be banned from most of the places I've hosted games.
I think this is an excellent debate point in this discussion, I was rather hoping it would come up as well!
I think that the American culture surrounding drugs is rather negative and particularly closed minded, we are more open about sexuality and rather extreme violence than drugs and drug use. However I think this is beginning to be relaxed and if Paizo as a company is okay with this subtle changing in American culture why not be trend setter's, literally pathfinders.
I do agree that a supervisor could very well have that kind of behavior however I also think that if it came up, from a teacher's stand-point I'd rather use it as a teaching moment. It would help create an opportunity for a dialogue to discuss drug use and the consequences. By no means do I think that there would be any correlation between a player having a character use drugs and that player then going and buying illegal drugs and trying them. Admittedly there isn't really enough data to make claims about this one way or another though.
Not to compare apples and oranges but that same organizer/Helicopter Mom could have the same reaction to learning that some characters are devil-worshipping priests that summon more devils and as The Fox said; maim, murder and rob.
The drugs in the game mastery guide aren't even that great, certainly not better than a potion and most of the addiction DC's are rather high which means for a considerable amount of time the player will be paying for Remove Disease most scenarios they attempt this. I would say this shows how negative drug use actually can be and how much of a drain on resources regular drug use can be. (Good dialogue point right?)
Edit* I should have double-proof read, I was just so excited to continue this discussion!
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Supervisors in schools are rarely so open-minded as to be interested in teaching moments or discussions. They're more worried about how it will look like in the newspapers and when parents are sharing it over social media. They're also worried about the liability that it represents for the school. Way easier to just shut down anything that looks a little bit inappropriate than actually thinking about things.
For example, check this out. This could have been a moment to talk about the difference between burlesque and other forms of "adult" entertainment, it could have been a moment to talk about how teachers are people and have private lives and pasts. But, no, the school sees parents complaining, and fires the teacher.
Expecting other people to be thoughtful and expecting society to not act in the most reactionary and knee-jerk manner is just setting yourself up for a world of disappointment.
The "devil craze" of the 80s seems to mostly be past us. But drugs in schools are a serious hot-button moment right now, to the point that you read stories about kids who get suspended for having prescription drugs for which they have a prescription, or for lending other kids ibuprofen when they have a headache. Anything that looks even a little bit like drugs is going to send up a big red flag that will bring a whole lot of additional attention, at which point all kinds of other things will probably be highlighted and portrayed in a light to make them sound as dangerous as possible.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I'm a teacher, I think Codanous's proposal is sound.
You can maim, murder, and rob in Pathfinder Society, but don't do drugs, mmkay?
Welcome to America, where you can kill as many people as you want in a movie, but making love to them automatically gets you bumped up a ratings bracket. And where until very recently married couples on TV slept in separate beds.
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Welcome to America, where you can kill as many people as you want in a movie, but making love to them automatically gets joy bumped up a ratings bracket. And where until very recently married couples on TV slept in separate beds.I'm a teacher, I think Codanous's proposal is sound.
You can maim, murder, and rob in Pathfinder Society, but don't do drugs, mmkay?
Preaching to the choir! :)
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Supervisors in schools are rarely so open-minded as to be interested in teaching moments or discussions. They're more worried about how it will look like in the newspapers and when parents are sharing it over social media. They're also worried about the liability that it represents for the school. Way easier to just shut down anything that looks a little bit inappropriate than actually thinking about things.
For example, check this out. This could have been a moment to talk about the difference between burlesque and other forms of "adult" entertainment, it could have been a moment to talk about how teachers are people and have private lives and pasts. But, no, the school sees parents complaining, and fires the teacher.
Expecting other people to be thoughtful and expecting society to not act in the most reactionary and knee-jerk manner is just setting yourself up for a world of disappointment.
The "devil craze" of the 80s seems to mostly be past us. But drugs in schools are a serious hot-button moment right now, to the point that you read stories about kids who get suspended for having prescription drugs for which they have a prescription, or for lending other kids ibuprofen when they have a headache. Anything that looks even a little bit like drugs is going to send up a big red flag that will bring a whole lot of additional attention, at which point all kinds of other things will probably be highlighted and portrayed in a light to make them sound as dangerous as possible.
It is still a hard point to argue, I understand that schools are a hot bed right now for controversial decisions and parents absolutely want to protect their children from harmful influences.
That said, the discussion has to start somewhere. Here in Washington state it has already started with the Marijuana laws being relaxed and many more states are following suit. I don't want to sound pro-hardcore drugs, I am not, I voted for the marijuana relaxing even though I find it annoying now 2 years later when my neighbors constantly smoke it and I have to worry about windows being open because I don't want my newborn girl getting second-hand smoke from it. All that said though I'd still vote for that initiative because I am Pro-discussion and I think that while it is an annoying drug I think the crime didn't fit the punishment and these laws prompted us and the many more states in the Union to also talk about it. In 2013 when Colorado and Washington approved they were the only two states, now Oregon and Alaska are set to legalize it as well by 2016 and the discussion is being heard throughout every remaining state in the Union still I am sure.
This pro-discussion attitude is why I am petitioning Paizo to relax their rules and allow this niche concept through. I also think that Pathfinder Society is relatively large, public and community driven organization and makes an amazing jump-off point for starting a discussion about drug use.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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There are a lot of demons and devils in popular media and video games at this point, and a lot of that sort of fervor has fallen by the wayside.
But even without that, PFS is not PG13. Between the brothels that show up with a certain amount of regularity and Calistra there is a fair bit of sex in the game. Cailin Cayden and the various Drunken X archtypes glamorize drinking. And a number of drugs (Pesh, for example) are already legal.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Actually the solution to this is even simpler.
"Hey guys, we are gaming in a (School / Church / At a table with 10 year olds) there is some stuff that is PFS legal that just isn't appropriate to bring to the table here. We need to be respectful of our hosts and our younger players parents, and not be jerks."
I have used this in past when I GM 10 year olds and the guy with the Priestess of Calistria joins us.
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I played my former Pesh Addict at GenCon, and my GM didn't initially hear the word "former". He interrupted my description of her to say he wasn't going to be allowing "any of that" at his table due to his own personal life experiences.
Once I clarified "former", and that her Day Job was even working as a motivational rehab speaker, he let me continue, but such encounters are just another reason to disallow drug use options in-character.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I thought Pesh *was* Opium (with the serial numbers filed off)
So Opium is currently legal in PFS.
I think Nefreet accurately frames the issue, but I take the opposite lesson from it. There are character options in PFS that are triggers for some people. When playing those characters, it is important to be respectful and flexible.
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But you are not advocating for the PFS equivalent of marijuana.
You specifically asked for addictive drugs to be legalized. There is a big difference between pot and opium.
I later amended my request to exclude any drugs that could act as an injury-deliverable poison of which opium would fall into. You are right though, I am not just asking for Flayleaf(however I'd be perfectly okay accepting that as a concession)
I was merely using the relaxation of Marijuana legislation here in the United States as jump-off point to show that the discussion regarding drug use has started.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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But you are not advocating for the PFS equivalent of marijuana.
You specifically asked for addictive drugs to be legalized. There is a big difference between pot and opium.
I later amended my request to exclude any drugs that could act as an injury-deliverable poison of which opium would fall into. You are right though, I am not just asking for Flayleaf(however I'd be perfectly okay accepting that as a concession)
I was merely using the relaxation of Marijuana legislation here in the United States as jump-off point to show that the discussion regarding drug use has started.
Congratulations then. Flayleaf is PFS legal. :)
Pathfinder Player Companion: Adventurer's Armory
Only the 2nd printing of this book or the 1st printing augmented by the current errata (released 7/21/11) are legal for play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.Everything in this book is legal for play with the following exceptions: a pseudodragon is not legal for purchase unless you're a wizard with the Improved Familiar feat, elephants are never legal for play, and armored kilts are not legal.
Flayleaf is on page 19
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But you are not advocating for the PFS equivalent of marijuana.
You specifically asked for addictive drugs to be legalized. There is a big difference between pot and opium.
I later amended my request to exclude any drugs that could act as an injury-deliverable poison of which opium would fall into. You are right though, I am not just asking for Flayleaf(however I'd be perfectly okay accepting that as a concession)
I was merely using the relaxation of Marijuana legislation here in the United States as jump-off point to show that the discussion regarding drug use has started.
Congratulations then. Flayleaf is PFS legal. :)
Flayleaf is on page 19Pathfinder Player Companion: Adventurer's Armory
Only the 2nd printing of this book or the 1st printing augmented by the current errata (released 7/21/11) are legal for play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.Everything in this book is legal for play with the following exceptions: a pseudodragon is not legal for purchase unless you're a wizard with the Improved Familiar feat, elephants are never legal for play, and armored kilts are not legal.
Sometimes the Adventurer's Armory is my favorite and most valuable splatbook.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I'm just here to contest "until very recently" in the context of TV couples sleeping together. That was primarily a trope of the 1950s and 60s. While "very recent" in geologic terms, those decades are getting pretty distant in terms of cultural shifts.
I don't think they are as distinct as we would like to believe. A lot of people still alive were raised on those shows, especially if you count reruns. And while the symptom went away eventually, the cause of that symptom (the American discomfort with sex) didn't.
But then I am also usually thinking about cultural shifts in terms of centuries.
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@LazerX I would like to say, that Flite put it great
. . . think Nefreet accurately frames the issue, but I take the opposite lesson from it. There are character options in PFS that are triggers for some people. When playing those characters, it is important to be respectful and flexible. . .
I am not saying that I want students playing these drug addict type characters, I am also not a student either.
I was merely addressing and offering a counter-point to how a teacher or instructor could handle the issue without using punitive measures such as closing down the whole operation.
Indeed the organizer of such of an event, such as Chris Mortika in this instance, could very well pull that student aside and give them a valuable student-teacher interaction and tell them that while their character is perfectly legal, this location may not be the best environment for it and rather than allow them to play it and run the risk of having to cancel PFS because of concerned parents and administrators, just ask them to play a different character while at the school.
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I smoke fantasy pot and hang out with the monster = not allowed in school
I run my two handed greatsword in an upward arc from his groin to his head and roar in bloody triumph while his entrails slip off my sword!= good practice for the SATs.
I realize that you can't change the above reality and have to deal with it, but its too weird to go without being pointed out.
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You're kidding or being intentionally obtuse right?There would certainly be young people, just as there are not so young people, who would play drug addicted characters just to do it and no amount of reasoning would convince them not to and inevitably that would run afoul of the mother who "just says no."
I think I am just participating in a healthy back and forth discussion that has several areas of concern and offering my thoughts on those areas.
Up thread it was actually revealed that I don't necessarily need to continue this debate since Flayleaf is legal in the Adventurer's Armory.
However LazerX's comments seemed to misunderstand my intentions of this discussion which I felt needed me to further clarify my own understanding of our discussion.
You are right though, there are people that given the chance would play that character concept, its also already completely legal to play that character already with Pesh or Flayleaf as well as numerous other drugs, that are presented in the Alchemy Manual, and the Familiar Folio.
As an organizer of a school event the best one can do I think is what I suggested, pull them aside and ask them not to play that character while at the school organized event. Instead of just telling them flat no though explain the reasons and the potential consequences, such as the event being cancelled permanently.
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Note there are products coming out this year that may be of value. in October Player Companion: Black Markets comes out.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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You're kidding or being intentionally obtuse right?There would certainly be young people, just as there are not so young people, who would play drug addicted characters just to do it and no amount of reasoning would convince them not to and inevitably that would run afoul of the mother who "just says no."
I think I am just participating in a healthy back and forth discussion that has several areas of concern and offering my thoughts on those areas.
Up thread it was actually revealed that I don't necessarily need to continue this debate since Flayleaf is legal in the Adventurer's Armory.
However LazerX's comments seemed to misunderstand my intentions of this discussion which I felt needed me to further clarify my own understanding of our discussion.
You are right though, there are people that given the chance would play that character concept, its also already completely legal to play that character already with Pesh or Flayleaf as well as numerous other drugs, that are presented in the Alchemy Manual, and the Familiar Folio.
As an organizer of a school event the best one can do I think is what I suggested, pull them aside and ask them not to play that character while at the school organized event. Instead of just telling them flat no though explain the reasons and the potential consequences, such as the event being cancelled permanently.
And then if that doesn't work, tell them flat no. As the organizer / GM you are responsible for making sure people are playing appropriately at the table. If someone is using a legal option, in a way that is disruptive* to the table, and has refused to stop when asked nicely, then they are violating don't be a jerk and may be asked to leave.
*getting the table banned from the venue is about as disruptive as it gets.
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I'm just here to contest "until very recently" in the context of TV couples sleeping together. That was primarily a trope of the 1950s and 60s. While "very recent" in geologic terms, those decades are getting pretty distant in terms of cultural shifts.I don't think they are as distinct as we would like to believe. A lot of people still alive were raised on those shows, especially if you count reruns. And while the symptom went away eventually, the cause of that symptom (the American discomfort with sex) didn't.
But then I am also usually thinking about cultural shifts in terms of centuries.
The difference between America and England is that Americans think 100 years is a long time, while the English think 100 miles is a long way.
It's true that Americans are still more comfortable with their children seeing violence in a movie or TV show than sex.
Edit: I found the quote and the source.
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Sometimes the Adventurer's Armory is my favorite and most valuable splatbook.But you are not advocating for the PFS equivalent of marijuana.
You specifically asked for addictive drugs to be legalized. There is a big difference between pot and opium.
I later amended my request to exclude any drugs that could act as an injury-deliverable poison of which opium would fall into. You are right though, I am not just asking for Flayleaf(however I'd be perfectly okay accepting that as a concession)
I was merely using the relaxation of Marijuana legislation here in the United States as jump-off point to show that the discussion regarding drug use has started.
Congratulations then. Flayleaf is PFS legal. :)
Flayleaf is on page 19Pathfinder Player Companion: Adventurer's Armory
Only the 2nd printing of this book or the 1st printing augmented by the current errata (released 7/21/11) are legal for play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.Everything in this book is legal for play with the following exceptions: a pseudodragon is not legal for purchase unless you're a wizard with the Improved Familiar feat, elephants are never legal for play, and armored kilts are not legal.
Except the version of flayleaf in Adventurer's Armory is terrible. Pesh is the superior drug in that book. (And yes, I am in the exact same boat as you.)
Also, tobacco in Adventurer's Armory seems to be addictive. Does that make it count as a drug?
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I'll point out the obvious that businesses generally avoid controversy as that affects the bottom line, and Paizo is a business.
So I'd expect things to come out in print and not be acceptable in PFS which is a public relations effort.
Blood Transcription was outlawed in PFS and there is some minor consternation over the use of Wands of Infernal Healing. Yes - if you took away the [evil] descriptor and called it Threnodic Transcription (no free drinks) and Faster Healing (with troll ichor) the issues would go away. ahh well...
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The GM needs to set the tone. If you are running with 10 year olds or a Baptist preacher, you should be able to modify your game for all the players. (I've played with both and have had a great time.) Schools are a prime example.
Drugs, sex, Calistra etc are all fine when all at the table are adults and ALL are fine with it.
The needs of the few (that sex starved Undine, or druggie rogue )should be toned way down in certain situations,.
Respect the guidance of the GM and respect the venue.
