so i was looking up alternate races and goblins get a natural +10 to stealth. 4 size, 4 racial, and 4 dex. so why is it that i've never met sneaky goblins? they are always talking and noisy
Just because someone is good at something, doesn't mean they like doing it. :D
so i was looking up alternate races and goblins get a natural +10 to stealth. 4 size, 4 racial, and 4 dex. so why is it that i've never met sneaky goblins? they are always talking and noisy
Dodgy DM'ing and poor encounter design?
Then again, maybe you only 'met' the stupid ones... the smart one are in your town burning your tavern.
so i was looking up alternate races and goblins get a natural +10 to stealth. 4 size, 4 racial, and 4 dex. so why is it that i've never met sneaky goblins? they are always talking and noisyDodgy DM'ing and poor encounter design?
Then again, maybe you only 'met' the stupid ones... the smart one are in your town looting your tavern.
Fixed
Hm. This needs a more informative title, please.
Because 1st level players are delicate gentle flowers, and would get overrun by sneaky goblins.
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Fixedso i was looking up alternate races and goblins get a natural +10 to stealth. 4 size, 4 racial, and 4 dex. so why is it that i've never met sneaky goblins? they are always talking and noisyDodgy DM'ing and poor encounter design?
Then again, maybe you only 'met' the stupid ones... the smart one are in your town looting and burning your tavern.
Double fixed.
so i was looking up alternate races and goblins get a natural +10 to stealth. 4 size, 4 racial, and 4 dex. so why is it that i've never met sneaky goblins? they are always talking and noisy
Of course you've never met the really sneaky ones. They're really sneaky remember!
Do the Goblins have fire resistance?
Double fixed.Fixedso i was looking up alternate races and goblins get a natural +10 to stealth. 4 size, 4 racial, and 4 dex. so why is it that i've never met sneaky goblins? they are always talking and noisyDodgy DM'ing and poor encounter design?
Then again, maybe you only 'met' the stupid ones... the smart one are in your town burning and looting your tavern.
Triple fixed.
I can just see the leader now: "NO NO NO... Rape, Pilliage, Then Burn. <Facepalm> Not again..."
Because goblins are sneaky when they're not trying to attack...
They're sneaky when they avoid humans. They're not the most intelligent beasts out there, but in the case of RotR they manage to infiltrate a town with no one noticing.
They attack in a crazy, screaming, tacticless manner. But prior to that attack they are sneaky sneaky.
Depends what sort of Goblins you want to use -
Tolkien = Hordes of ugly smelly brown warlike vicious little tikes.
Brothers Grimm = Capricious cavern and forest dwelling tricksters who possess college graduates once per year.
Goblins are not brain dead. If Elves have been fighting them for years and now started fighting Humans who encroach their domain, the Goblins may assist the Humans.
In some myths Goblins are earth spirits so perhaps they are simply protecting their sacred areas.
Not all challengers have to lead to combat.
Sneaky Goblins may steal stuff, use stealth and create havok, but they would not hang around to fight, once hurt they'd scarper. The target of their pranks doesn't have to be the PCs, it could just happen near them.
Maybe these sneaky goblins work for Hags or the Faerie queen.
Maybe the goblins (of either type) have moved into the area because someone else kicked them out of their old area, which leads into higher level plots.
Then again, maybe you only 'met' the stupid ones... the smart one are in your town looting AND THEN burning your tavern.
Fixed
Double fixed.
Triple fixed.
Come on, guys, get it right! These goblins aren't suicidal! ;-)
Quadruple fixed.
I can just see the leader now: "NO NO NO... Rape, Pilliage, Then Burn. <Facepalm> Not again..."
<winces> ... that's not a place to get burns ...
... mind you it adds a new dimension to the question: "Do you smoke after sex?"
Then again, maybe you only 'met' the stupid ones... the smart one are in your town looting AND THEN burning your tavern.
Fixed
Double fixed.
Triple fixed.
Come on, guys, get it right! These goblins aren't suicidal! ;-)
Quadruple fixed.
I humbly must disagree with your characterization of goblins. I would suggest the following alternative wording of the aforementioned sentence.
Then again, maybe you only 'met' the stupid ones... the smart one are in your town looting while burning your tavern.
One more fix...
Then again, maybe you only 'met' the stupid ones... the smart ones are in your town looting while burning your tavern.
Goblins; the "smart" ones
“They loot and burn all my stuff”
The innkeeper cries
Studpuffin, your claps
A monster's heart is soaring
my work here is done
so why is it that i've never met sneaky goblins? they are always talking and noisy
You didn't meet the sneaky ones because you didn't notice them; they were hiding across the path from the talkative decoys.
And they have a base move of 30, which is nice when moving at half speed.
Hm... looks like goblins aren't as good at math as they are at sneaking...
4 + 4 + 4 = 12
LOL
haha yea its mostly DM's not doing any research. Was a time my friends thought kobolds were just cannon fodder. Then after a short " out post" they changed minds. Was right after i got on my " kobolds are awesome" kick,and i got several source books. Goblins are probably not so differant from kobolds, also idea that goblins and kobolds are " dumb " i dont think is accurate. They come off that way because common isn't there primary language never rp'd or had a goblin or kobold in my campaigns be dumb mentally.
Think about it a second, when your 1/2 size of guys usually work for(orcs, ogres ect) have to make up your size some how. Ingenuity, is usually how you'll do it. be it traps(kobolds) or stealth and guile(goblins) you WILL make up your size some how. When DM's stop thinking of orcs, goblins, kobolds, gnolls and the like as cannon fodder or morons fights get alot more interesting!
Hm... looks like goblins aren't as good at math as they are at sneaking...
4 + 4 + 4 = 12
4+4+4/2=10
wanted to play one of these little jerks since cracking the bestiary.
can you crack a pdf?
Hm... looks like goblins aren't as good at math as they are at sneaking...
4 + 4 + 4 = 12
dex score of 4 = +2 stealth skill, but good job on that arythmetic
+17 stealth check at level one is a bit insane. Still does not keep them alive if found way out front all alone. But gods they make sneaky rogues
Sheesh...
When I was running RotRL my players wanted to random run off and fight goblins instead of following the storyline. I did notice the goblins had huge stealth skill and simply said that the goblins are always just shadows moving at the edge of your vision. Chasing goblins in the dark is not an easy task after all! :)
At least... chasing any goblins not currently in the act of burning something.
Then again, maybe you only 'met' the stupid ones... the smart one are in your town burning your dog and eating it.
I humbly submit the above correction.
+17 stealth check at level one is a bit insane. Still does not keep them alive if found way out front all alone. But gods they make sneaky rogues
sorry, but i believe that is only if they have a 20 dex at lvl 1(with a +4 that is possible, but not likely to find wandering about
Doesn't require 20 dex. Check: We have already established a +10 from misc. mods.
+4 for a rank in a class skill. That's +14... for the average ones.
+3 for Skill Focus for those who take it, and the average (14 dex) goblin will have a +17 a 1st level. Take Stealthy at 3rd (and two more skill ranks) and you get a whopping +21 at 3rd level, for an average goblin.
An "18 Dex" goblin - that is, one who had 18 dex before racial mods, could have +21 to stealth at 1st level and +25 at 3rd level. How rare are these? Well, 3d6 yields an 18 in 1:216 rolls... and goblins are prolific breeders, so 216 births probably take a few months at longest...
Clearly, goblins are an r-selected, rather than a K selected, species.
If goblins aren't sneaking in your campaign, the GM is doing it wrong.
Several times while playing, the party would be travelling overland and we'd randomly encounter things like giant lizards or orcs or what have you, and run in to slaughter them. What would catch us is when we would find one or maybe two goblins. Thats when we would panic.
Because we know the little buggers travel in packs.
If you only see one goblin dancing around up ahead, one of the party members is likely missing half his stuff, or you're about to get hit flat-footed. A lot.
If you would build a Goblin rogue, it would get really nasty:
Elite array: 15, 14, 12, 11, 10, 8
This could reasonably be ordered thus:
St 14, Dx 15, Co 11, In 12, Wi 10, Ch 8
Goblin mods
St 12, Dx 19, Co 11, In 12, Wi 10, Ch 6
This would give a 1st level goblin rogue a stealth score of:
1(rank)+3(class skill)+4(dex)-1(armor)+4(size)+4(race)=+15.
Small chance that 1st level PCs EVER see the Goblin. You could go over the top with the Stealthy feat, adding another +2.
At second level, this Goblin Rogue would probably take Fast Stealth as Rogue talent - with the feat, he would be at +18 now, and able to to move at full speed while stealthy. Read: He is in and out again before you even noticed he´s been there at all.
Stefan
If you would build a Goblin rogue, it would get really nasty:
Elite array: 15, 14, 12, 11, 10, 8
This could reasonably be ordered thus:
St 14, Dx 15, Co 11, In 12, Wi 10, Ch 8
Goblin mods
St 12, Dx 19, Co 11, In 12, Wi 10, Ch 6
This would give a 1st level goblin rogue a stealth score of:
1(rank)+3(class skill)+4(dex)-1(armor)+4(size)+4(race)=+15.
Small chance that 1st level PCs EVER see the Goblin. You could go over the top with the Stealthy feat, adding another +2.At second level, this Goblin Rogue would probably take Fast Stealth as Rogue talent - with the feat, he would be at +18 now, and able to to move at full speed while stealthy. Read: He is in and out again before you even noticed he´s been there at all.
Stefan
Build this little bugger towards Shadowdancer and you have a real terror on your hands. Literally could sneak in, nibble on your fingers, and sneak out...why you watch!
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Small chance that 1st level PCs EVER see the Goblin. You could go over the top with the Stealthy feat, adding another +2.
Half-Elf Lv1 Rogue(Finesse and Trapfinder) 10 point buy
Str8 Dex16(14) Con13Int12 Wis12 Cha10
Skill Focus(perception), Weapon Finesse
Perception: +10=(1 wis, +1 rank, +3 class skill, +3 feat, +2 racial)
That's with the 10 point buy, which is even less than the Elite Array(correct me if I'm wrong). That's pretty dang close to +15, and I've seen builds that can see invisible threats(at levels higher than 1 of course).
+10 isn't really that close to +17, let alone +21. Even if you were a half-elf druid, and boosted your Wisdom up to 18 (20 with the racial bonus) that would give you a +14. If you rolled a natural 20 on a Perception check, you would still miss 15% of average sneaking goblins, and fully 35% of the super-high Dex ones. On average (10 on a d20), you miss 65% of the normal sneakers and 85% of the high-Dexers.
Edit: If you replace Weapon Finesse with Alertness as a 1st level feat, reduce each of those percentages by 10.
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+10 isn't really that close to +17, let alone +21. Even if you were a half-elf druid, and boosted your Wisdom up to 18 (20 with the racial bonus) that would give you a +14. If you rolled a natural 20 on a Perception check, you would still miss 15% of average sneaking goblins, and fully 35% of the super-high Dex ones. On average (10 on a d20), you miss 65% of the normal sneakers and 85% of the high-Dexers.
Edit: If you replace Weapon Finesse with Alertness as a 1st level feat, reduce each of those percentages by 10.
The person I quoted had a goblin at +15, and by tanking Str even more(along with Cha and maybe Con), one could get the modifier even higher.
Okay, so subtract 10% from all percentages for the -2 stealth on the goblin, then add 5% for each two points of Wisdom lost for the player since a 20 is out of bounds. And if the goblin does take Skill Focus, add another 15%, plus another 10% for Stealthy. Still doesn't come out well for the player - in fact, it comes out worse.
Okay, so subtract 10% from all percentages for the -2 stealth on the goblin, then add 5% for each two points of Wisdom lost for the player since a 20 is out of bounds. And if the goblin does take Skill Focus, add another 15%, plus another 10% for Stealthy. Still doesn't come out well for the player - in fact, it comes out worse.
His character had a 12 wisdom, not 20
The percentages I gave above were for someone with a 20 in Wisdom - 18 natural, and the +2 racial placed there. Generally, you can't get higher at 1st level so any modifiers to Wisdom would be downward.
And I realize his character only had 12 Wisdom, my point was to provide an even more optimized perception character that still had trouble. His 12 Wisdom character would have an even tougher time - increasing each of those percentages by 20%!
Percentages don't take into account luck, but then I don't believe in luck. With a well made dice, you have exactly a 1 in 20 chance of rolling a given number. A series of rolls will average out to about 10.5. As for other factors... yeah, there could be a +2 for favorable circumstances. Of course, that could cut the other way, too, with the goblins getting a +2 or you getting a -2. I consider circumstance modifiers to generally even out between the two, so are negligible.