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I have noticed that the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook does not contain a list of specific potions and oils. It only has the table showing minimum potion costs for various spell levels of the various casters.
The three different areas where potion creation is described have the following criteria:
- Duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level
- Must have a casting time of less than 1 minute
- Must target one or more creatures (objects too, I assume)
- Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions
- The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect
- The person applying an oil is the effective caster, but the object is the target
- When you create a potion, you make any choices that you would normally make when casting the spell, yet “though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect.” (Are there potions of resist energy [fire] or just potions of resist energy?)
- Magic oils are similar to potions, except that oils are applied externally rather than imbibed (Any spell can be an oil rather than a potion, right?)
Searching the core rulebook spells that meet the above criteria yields this list of spells that would function well as potions and as oils:
Aid, Barkskin, Bear’s Endurance, Blur, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Cure Light Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, Cure Serious Wounds, Darkvision, Delay Poison, Dispel Magic, Displacement, Eagle’s Splendor, Endure Elements, Enlarge Person, Feather Fall (only useful if falling long enough for a standard action, 500 ft ?), Fly, Fox’s Cunning, Gaseous Form, Good Hope, Guidance, Haste, Heroism, Hide from Animals, Hide from Undead, Inflict Light Wounds (good for undead to use), Inflict Moderate Wounds, Inflict Serious Wounds, Invisibility, Invisibility Sphere (would this do anything beyond the imbiber or oil applyee?), Jump, Levitate, Mage Armor, Magic Fang, Greater Magic Fang, Magic Mouth, Message (talk to yourself?), Neutralize Poison, Nondetection, Owl’s Wisdom, Pass without Trace, Prayer (does this target one or more creatures?), Prestidigitation, Protection from Arrows, Protection from Chaos, Protection from Evil, Protection from Good, Protection from Law, Protection from Energy, Rage, Reduce Animal, Reduce Person, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Fear, Resist Energy, Resistance, Lesser Restoration, Sanctuary, Sculpt Sound, Shield of Faith, Shield Other (still useful, read the spell), Silence, Spider Climb, Stabilize, Status (maybe useful), Tongues, Undetectable Alignment, Virtue, Water Breathing, Water Walk
Whereas this list should only be oils for obvious reasons (Remove Paralysis) or because the spells target only objects (assuming object targeting spells are acceptable for potions and oils):
Align Weapon, Animate Dead (who controls the undead if anyone?), Animate Rope, Arcane Lock, Arcane Mark, Bless Weapon, Chill Metal, Continual Flame, Darkness, Daylight, Deeper Darkness, Detect Poison, Diminish Plants, Entangle, Erase, Explosive Runes, Flame Arrow, Gentle Repose, Goodberry, Grease, Heal Mount (“The person applying an oil is the effective caster, but the object is the target.”), Heat Metal, Hold Portal, Keen Edge, Knock, Light, Mage Hand (who controls the object?), Magic Aura, Magic Stone, Magic Vestment, Magic Weapon, Greater Magic Weapon, Obscure Object, Open/Close, Phantom Trap, Plant Growth, Purify Food and Drink, Pyrotechnics, Quench, Remove Paralysis, Rope Trick, Shatter, Shillelagh, Shrink Item, Snare, Soften Earth and Stone, Spike Growth, Stone Shape, Warp Wood, Wood Shape
This last list of spells would technically be legal for potion and/or oil creation, but would require some creative thinking to be useful. One simple idea is the suggestion spell: “Drink this potion.” Another idea is to take a standard action (that provokes an attack of opportunity) to apply the oil to a creature.
Bestow Curse, Bleed, Blindness/Deafness, Cause Fear, Charm Animal (regard yourself as a trusted friend and ally?), Charm Monster, Charm Person, Chill Touch, Command, Command Plants, Command Undead, Confusion, Lesser Confusion, Contagion, Daze, Daze Monster, Death Knell, Deep Slumber, Discern Lies (know if you are lying?), Dominate Animal (dominate yourself?), Doom, Enthrall, Faerie Fire, Lesser Geas, Ghoul Touch, Halt Undead, Hideous Laughter, Hold Animal, Hold Person, Hypnotism, Lullaby, Magic Circle against Chaos (focused inward to hold a creature), Magic Circle against Evil, Magic Circle against Good, Magic Circle against Law, Magic Missile (technically), Misdirection (really confound a diviner), Poison, Scare, Shocking Grasp, Sleep, Slow, Suggestion, Touch of Fatigue, Touch of Idiocy, Vampiric Touch (converts hit point into temporary hit points)
Have any core rulebook spells to add? Do you think any of the above spells should be removed from the list or placed in a different section? Have any good ideas on when a potion of Charm Person would be useful? Before posting, please be sure to read the spell in question and keep in mind the criteria.
thanks
The way you make a potion of Charm Person useful is you make it a classic Love Philtre: The drinker is charmed by the next creature he or she sees with no saving throw. And a greater Love Philtre can be made with Charm Monster.
The "no saving throw" may be problematic for some people to go with, but honestly, getting someone to drink something is the hardest part of the trick, and Love Philtres make for great entertainment. Especially when the paladin becomes enamored with the wizard's ferret.
I usually go with the idea that anything that affects a creature must be a potion and needs to be drank to gain the effect. Yes this does eliminate some possabilities when someone isn't physically able to drink a potion when they need it but thems the breaks. We allow force feeding potions to others. Anything that applies to an object is an oil.
This is just a house rule of mine, but I thought I'd drop it in. Spells like Inflict Light Wounds, Blindness, and other 'damaging' spells that qualify for being made into potions, can be created as clay pellets, that can then be thrown or fired from a sling at the bad guys, with the spell affecting the creature hit (along with 1d3 damage, it's only a clay pellet after all). I've used it for several months now, and it seems to work fine for my players (even when they got ambushed by a group of Gnoll slingers using Daze and Inflict Light Wounds on them).
Feather Fall (only useful if falling long enough for a standard action, 500 ft ?)
Or voluntarily jump with a move (or just take a 5-foot step off a cliff) and drink it with a subsequent standard action in the same turn. Pretty damn handy, actually.
Potion of fireball is a great "frag grenade" wannabe.
Have any good ideas on when a potion of Charm Person would be useful? Before posting, please be sure to read the spell in question and keep in mind the criteria.
As you pointed out your self, a potions drinker is both the target and the caster of the spell. Thus a potion of charm person is useless.[unless the drinker has very strong compulsions to hurt himself]
As a potion is a concogtion that has to be drunk to affect a creature or has to by applied to an item, a potion of fireball is not usable as a missile weapon.
For Philters of love, Flask of fireball or any other liquid that does not abide by the conditions posted by MillerHero you need the Craft Wondrous Item feat. This feat can allow you to make elixiers with almost any given effect or spell level.
There is a reason why Brew Potion and Craft Wondrous Item are separate feats, so if you basically allow players to make any potion they like (regardless of restrictions) you are actually giving them an extra feat for free, not to mention too cheap magic items. The next thing your players will request are gallon sized potions to replace wands or that a potion can be poured onto a spellbook and can scribe it self :)
Feather Fall (only useful if falling long enough for a standard action, 500 ft ?)Or voluntarily jump with a move (or just take a 5-foot step off a cliff) and drink it with a subsequent standard action in the same turn. Pretty damn handy, actually.
Yep, I've done this on several occasions. It's handy for avoiding Climb checks when you're in heavy armor, for instance.
I don't believe that Prestidigitation can be made into a potion; none of the effects listed targets a creature, as far as I can tell. You could make an oil out of it, though.
I don't believe that Prestidigitation can be made into a potion; none of the effects listed targets a creature, as far as I can tell. You could make an oil out of it, though.
That's a good point the spell description target reads "see text" and the only nouns the text mentions are material, items, nonliving material, and objects. It does mention that it cannot affect the concentration of spellcasters, but doesn't mention creatures anywhere else. I've seen this spell used to change the color of a creature's hair or to clean a creature before; I wonder if those uses were legal as written or not.
Feather Fall (only useful if falling long enough for a standard action, 500 ft ?)Or voluntarily jump with a move (or just take a 5-foot step off a cliff) and drink it with a subsequent standard action in the same turn. Pretty damn handy, actually.
The trouble with a feather fall potion (or oil) is that the feather fall spell as written only works upon free-falling objects or creatures, thus the reason it is an immediate action. Any action longer than that, and the object or creature would have fallen well out of range by the time the spell completes. Drinking a potion (or applying a oil) is a standard action, which would mean that you would have to be falling for at least part of a round before you could complete your standard action to gain the benefits of the spell.
The duration is: until landing or 1 round/level. If cast on a creature standing on the ground, 1. they are not free falling (insert Tom Petty joke here) 2. they have already 'landed'All that being said, at my home game I would be completely fine with people using a feather fall potion and jumping from a height safely. But I do not want my Pathfinder Society players purchasing these potions thinking that they will work this way at any table they happen to play at.
The trouble with a feather fall potion (or oil) is that the feather fall spell as written only works upon free-falling objects or creatures, thus the reason it is an immediate action.
Feather Fall is an immediate action so you can use it to save a falling companion when it's not your turn.
Any action longer than that, and the object or creature would have fallen well out of range by the time the spell completes.
Wherever possible, the abstraction of combat as a sequence of events in a specific order should be removed. It exists only to put enough order into the chaos for a simple tabletop simulation. The idea that one cannot take a move and a standard action in one's round because the move action was jumping off a cliff is based on the idea that they happen in that order, and not simultaneously or interspersed, which for this purpose is an unnecessary over-abstraction. The standard action to drink a potion involves pulling the stopper, putting it to one's mouth, pouring in an ounce of fluid, and perhaps swallowing. The idea that you can't properly time that last bit (whether or not you rule the swallow as part of the action) to happen between jumping and landing doesn't work for me. (And I've jumped down distances in the 5-to-10 feet range on numerous occasions.)
That's a good point. I haven't found anywhere that all standard actions are prohibited during a move. Just because Spring Attack and Shot on the Run say that normally "You cannot move before and after an attack," doesn't necessarily mean the rule applies to other standard actions. Two standard actions that I can think of where you would assume take place during a move are 'Concentrate to maintain an active spell' and 'Total defense.' Why can't 'Read a scroll' and 'Drink a potion' be done during a move?
Two standard actions that I can think of where you would assume take place during a move are 'Concentrate to maintain an active spell' and 'Total defense.'
While flavour-wise I might consider those to be simultaneous, in practice I think the total defense or concentration would come before the movement.
At any rate, with a potion of Feather Fall, you should be able to get the desired result with a readied action (i.e. ready an action to drink as soon as you're falling).
Hello, I have been checking just that this weekend because my party have many question about potions.
I have to add that the wording in TPFRPG is almost the same as in 3.5. But in 3.5 we have a list of potions and now we are free to choose (but IMO we can't expand the list too much).
Btw, list of d20 potions at:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/magic-items/potions---final
My problem is what "targets one or more creatures" is supossed to mean, the wording is horrible.
I was reading an old WotC article from Skip Williams ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041214a) about Potions in 3er Edition, but there were potions in 3.5 that already broke the guidelines sugested by Skip Williams. The only thing that seems to make sense is that a spell which creates an Effect or an Area that can't target an individual creature can't be a potion or oil.
I will check your list of possible potions later if I can.
Btw, in 3.5, with the same wording, potions were resist energy [fire], resist energy [cold], etc... so no "resist energy" potions that would allow the imbiber to choose the kind of protection were available.
Imo, what the person drinking the potion controls is whatever thing that must be decided after the spell is cast, as where to send an object enchanted by mage hand, concentrate to maintain the spell, etc..
Btw, in 3.5, with the same wording, potions were resist energy [fire], resist energy [cold], etc... so no "resist energy" potions that would allow the imbiber to choose the kind of protection were available.
Imo, what the person drinking the potion controls is whatever thing that must be decided after the spell is cast, as where to send an object enchanted by mage hand, concentrate to maintain the spell, etc..
Sorry; the same rule applies in Pathfinder.
"Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect--the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect)."
Also, "targets one or more creatures" means that (a) the spell has a "Target" line, and (b) the "Target" line says something like "one creature" or "one creature/level" or something like that (but not "you", for instance).
Also, "targets one or more creatures" means that (a) the spell has a "Target" line, and (b) the "Target" line says something like "one creature" or "one creature/level" or something like that (but not "you", for instance).
Uhmm, makes sense.
I would add some spells that mention creatures in their "Area" line, even if they don't have a "Target" line.I.e. Magic circle against Evil, no Target line, but the area is "Area 10-ft.-radius emanation from touched creature". That spell was a potion in 3.5.
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As you pointed out your self, a potions drinker is both the target and the caster of the spell. Thus a potion of charm person is useless.[unless the drinker has very strong compulsions to hurt himself]
Wow... a potion of self-love. I wonder... temporary self-esteem booster, followed by an equal opposite crash of *I have to use magic to love myself*?
This just makes me giggle soo much! Now I know what they use in the sanitariums!
My problem is what "targets one or more creatures" is supossed to mean, the wording is horrible.
I agree, the wording is horrible. That's why I included such potions as magic missile and shocking grasp - Target lists creatures. Granted, the potion drinker would damage himself. I don't think it makes sense to have potions of magic missile and others, but from my understanding they are technically legal.
I wish the Pathfinder RPG people would just make a definitive list.
Individual DMs always had final say in their games for this.
I'm for letting the GM rule on all matter of things. However, I organize and run a lot of Pathfinder Society games and people are always asking about what kind of potions they can buy. I could really use a definitive list that all Pathfinder Society characters across the world have access to, not just what I or another GM says is legal.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/magic-items/potions---final
As Derek Poppink pointed out, 4th level Paladins creating an oil of Bless Weapon have a caster level of 1.
Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is equal to her paladin level – 3.
Therefore, an oil of Bless Weapon should cost 50 gp not 100 gp.
Great work on the d20pfsrd by the way. How can I help (without knowing code)?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/magic-items/potions---finalAs Derek Poppink pointed out, 4th level Paladins creating an oil of Bless Weapon have a caster level of 1.
Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is equal to her paladin level – 3.Therefore, an oil of Bless Weapon should cost 50 gp not 100 gp.
True, and there are other potions and oils that have a different price in PF (the d20 list is the list of potions from 3.5 Ed.).
Great work on the d20pfsrd by the way. How can I help (without knowing code)?
I'm not a member, so I don't know for sure, they have an unofficial FAQ with answers from developers (from the boards) and their own boards.
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A few years back in a game of d20 Modern, I was running a Supernatural style campaign, and my wife brought up the Charmed Ones.
Her argument was they are making Potions and then they throw them, and when the liquid LEAVES the vial, the potion has the effect. This is as opposed to having to actually swallow the liquid.
So I said 'Hmmm,' and thought about it, and my response was 'No, they are really just preparing the spell in a different format than 'Abracadabra - hand motions - crispy bad guy'.
I also brought up that some of the potions did have to br drunk, and those potions could actually be per the Brew Potion feat, but could just as well be spells prepared in a different fashion.
So, after getting a grumpy look from the missus, and being threatened again with no latenight gaming sessions, I house rules that basically they are spells stored in a device, like a scroll, and since she already had a scribe scroll ability, I simply said now instead of reading a spell, you have to throw the 'potion spell'.
A buddy of mine simply allows his players to brew the spells into a potion, but requires a ranged touch attack for the potion to have an effect.
If this issue were to come up in my Pathfinder game, I would research the brew potion cost, then the scribe scroll effect, then probably charge whichever cost more, or even just double the cost of the potion to allow a different delivery method.
I've always liked the concept of harmful potions. A crafty rogue swapping out a potion of cure serious that will be used later is pretty entertaining. We had an invisible bard swap out the potion of the captain of the guards the PCs knew they were going to take on later with a confusion potion. When the time came, the little trick worked brilliantly!
I'd love to hear one of the staff's thoughts on harmful potions or areas of effect spells used in potions.... ;)
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Where are you finding the rule "Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions"? I don't see that on page 477-478 of the CRB, where the other rules are. And why wouldn't "Target: you" count as a target for these purposes? Exclusing "Target: you" leaves out perfectly reasonalbe potions, such as a potion of Expeditious Retreat. Do the game designers really mean to say that in a world of "magic technology" there has never been a halfling wizard who has figured out how to make a potion of Expeditious Retreat? That just seems silly to me.
Where are you finding the rule "Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions"? I don't see that on page 477-478 of the CRB, where the other rules are.
Page 551.
Generally, spells that affect objects are made into oils. Spells that affect creatures are made into potions. This is only a rule of thumb, as one could easily make a spell that effects creatures into an oil (you could also make a spell that affects items into a potion, but most items can't "drink").
Does one of those birds that tips onver into the glass of water count as drinking?
Generally, spells that affect objects are made into oils. Spells that affect creatures are made into potions.
Ah, but I prefer my magic fang as oil/toothpaste/nail polish.
As a potion, there would be no easy way to determine which natural weapon is goning to receive that bonus...
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http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/magic-items/potions---finalAs Derek Poppink pointed out, 4th level Paladins creating an oil of Bless Weapon have a caster level of 1.
Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is equal to her paladin level – 3.Therefore, an oil of Bless Weapon should cost 50 gp not 100 gp.
Great work on the d20pfsrd by the way. How can I help (without knowing code)?
I'm a contributor, and all you really have to do is send an email using the links on the page saying "I wanna help" and one of the mods will invite you to join the Google Group. It's a great community and they're always looking for people to help. :)
Individual DMs always had final say in their games for this.I'm for letting the GM rule on all matter of things. However, I organize and run a lot of Pathfinder Society games and people are always asking about what kind of potions they can buy. I could really use a definitive list that all Pathfinder Society characters across the world have access to, not just what I or another GM says is legal.
I was looking in the GameMastery Guide in chapter five under rewards is a listing of potions/ oils as a "random" roll table it may help figure out what one are legal for PFS games.
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I was looking in the GameMastery Guide in chapter five under rewards is a listing of potions/ oils as a "random" roll table it may help figure out what one are legal for PFS games.Individual DMs always had final say in their games for this.I'm for letting the GM rule on all matter of things. However, I organize and run a lot of Pathfinder Society games and people are always asking about what kind of potions they can buy. I could really use a definitive list that all Pathfinder Society characters across the world have access to, not just what I or another GM says is legal.
The table is just a sampling of random stuff to help you with random treasure generation. The possibilities far exceed it.
Any spell which meets the following criteria can be made into a potion or oil:
• 3rd level or lower
• Casting time less than 1 minute
• Targets one or more creatures or objects
• Does not have a range of "personal"
The list of legal options is huge. Some nontraditional examples include:
Potion of hold person
Oil of bestow curse
Potion of magic missile
Oil of daylight (okay, that one's not quite so nontraditional)
The only way in which PFS rules differ from the Core rules regarding potions/oils is that in PFS you can only buy a potion or oil at the minimum caster level for the spell in question, unless you find it on a Chronicle sheet at a higher CL.
I don't think fireball works as an oil because it targets an area, not a creature.
