Sartel Bollen, Mistress of the Headless Caravan


Round 3: Create a villain stat block

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Scarab Sages

William Senn wrote:
Where are you getting +4 for a green hag's charisma modifier? They have 14 charisma. That's a +2.

Nevermind me. I'm a moron.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

I liked Sartel quite a bit last round. If I had had 5 votes, she would have gotten one from me. It's a shame however that you didn't take advantage of refining her this round. Nothing specific that I think was needed, but I'm sure you could have given more goodness. As it is, others did a great job updating and some at least have surpassed Sartel.

The stat block was well done, but there wasn't a lot of excitement. As a melee/magic threat, I'd have preferred to see Sartel take advantage of that with more buff spells. Mage armor, bull's strength, etc, would have been good. Also, switching her levels around to use eldrich knight would have helped a ton. Losing 1 level of spellcasting isn't a big deal since she'd still have 4th level spells. Yes, her tactics say she's there for spellcasting and lets her minions do the melee, but if that's the case, why even have a level of fighter and magic weapon? I'm also curious why she has enlarge person. Neither she nor her undead minions qualify, so who's she planning on enlarging? Finally, I'm not a big fan of animating dead opponents as a tactic in combat. At her CR, is adding a standard medium zombie really going to change things? Especially if the PCs have been fighting her zombies all day presumably and have gotten through them with no problems?

The new feat is a cool idea, but tragically flawed, as has been discussed. I'm not sure if it needs to be +2 spell levels(though I lean in that direction), but it definately needs to be only possible for a single target.


William Senn wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

There are too few feats. 19 HD = 10 Feats. 1 fighter level = 1 bonus feat. 9 sorcerer levels = 2 bonus feats (levels 1 & 7).

Even not figuring into the equation the Human bonus feat which Sartel would have had (assume for the sake of argument it was lost due to the mind-bending effects of the transformation process), this still makes 13 feats, and I see only 12 listed.
Monster HD don't grant feats like class levels do. Monster HD still grant 1 feat per 3 HD.

Hmm. Not too sure what to make of this. I checked the Beta (page 296) and you appear to be correct.

11 class levels/HD= 6 feats, but now I am not clear on if the 7 Hag hit dice should be 2 feats or 3 and if the human bonus feat comes into it or not. Given that the Hag hit dice are not the 'starting' hit dice, I would think only two feats from the 7 Hag hit dice would make sense, and if the human bonus feat disappeared then suddenly Sartel now has too many feats...
Aaaaargh!!!
Hopefully the human bonus feat did not go away. I don't think it would if this had been a reincarnate.

Jason Bulmahn:
Please, please, please, for the sake of consistency and saving headaches, think seriously about giving monsters the same Feat/HD progression as regular 'PC' races.


Sartel Bollen moved to the priority votes pile where she goes head to head with Jeroim Borloz, Gulga Cench, and Bracht Darkhouse for one of my last two votes.

Edit:

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Jason Bulmahn:

Please, please, please, for the sake of consistency and saving headaches, think seriously about giving monsters the same Feat/HD progression as regular 'PC' races.

I meant the same same Feat/HD progression as is obtained by regular advancement of HD by class.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 aka Lord Fyre

Honestly, I can say that I am liking this Villain. :)

The stat block needs tightened up, and this has the potential to be a TPK at normal levels for a CR 10 villain. But, I think that has more to do with already existing problems in the rules with "non-associated" classes & taking monsterous cohorts via Leadership.

But, when you decaptiate a Ghoul or Lamia - does that not destroy them? Would they not immediately become zombies?

Would manditory decapitation be a massive dis-incentive for followers coming to join the caravan?

The feat, as written, is overpowered. Looking at what it can do (adding ability damage to damaging spells), I do think that a +2 spell level might be more appropriate.

So I am on the fence with this entry. The concept is great. But there are a couple of rules issues that are bothering me.

Scarab Sages

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
but now I am not clear on if the 7 Hag hit dice should be 2 feats or 3 and if the human bonus feat comes into it or not. Given that the Hag hit dice are not the 'starting' hit dice, I would think only two feats from the 7 Hag hit dice would make sense, and if the human bonus feat disappeared then suddenly Sartel now has too many feats...

Green Hags have 9 hit dice :) So, it's clearly 3 feats from monstrous hit dice.


William Senn wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
but now I am not clear on if the 7 Hag hit dice should be 2 feats or 3 and if the human bonus feat comes into it or not. Given that the Hag hit dice are not the 'starting' hit dice, I would think only two feats from the 7 Hag hit dice would make sense, and if the human bonus feat disappeared then suddenly Sartel now has too many feats...
Green Hags have 9 hit dice :) So, it's clearly 3 feats from monstrous hit dice.

Right. Assuming I am correct in thinking the '1' of '1+3/racial HD' has disappeared, and the human bonus one has not?

Or does the human bonus feat need to disappear too? If it does, Sartel now has one too few...
Or does she?
I'll try going over the stat block again.

Edit (update):
I seem to have read the Annis entry out of the 3.5 Monster Manual wth regard to my 'hag has 7 HD thought', instead of the Green Hag entry.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
William Senn wrote:


Honestly, I don't even know what this "Elder Evils" is. Can you give me a link? The decapitated deity is straight out of the Pathfinder campaign setting (Golarion), as are all the personalities and place names except for Sartel and her cohort. So, if it's an homage, it's one fully supported by the setting.

Well, that's fair enough. I didn't know there was a decapitated snake god in Golarion. n.n;

Elder Evils was one of the last books put out for 3.5 by WotC. It essentially featured 'Apocalypse Beasts' and 'Eldritch Horrors' that could end the world. Sertrous was a snake-like demon lord (who existed in D&D before that book, I think,) who got decapitated but still managed to corrupt his holy slayer after "death." James Jacobs wrote that portion of the book, from what I remember.

And thanks for the info. I feel a lot better about this entry, knowing that.


Sartel Bollen wrote:

Sartel Bollen, Mistress of the Headless Caravan

Female green hag fighter 1/ sorcerer 9

As far as I can make out the starting creature is a human fighter. That's 1 feat for 1st level, 1 bonus feat for being a human, and 1 bonus feat for being a fighter. So there should be 3 feats total from here.

Then the green hag transformation weirdness gets applied. That's 9 HD, at '1 feat + 1 feat/3 HD', except I'll assume the '1 feat' disappears because it's a character whose already got a HD. Since reincarnated characters do not lose feats (Beta, Page 262), I'll assume the human bonus feat stays though. So there should be 3 feats total from here.
Then 9 more levels get added of sorcerer. At 1st level of sorcerer and at 7th, bonus feats get added. At 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 8th level, regular character level advancement feats get added. So there should be 6 feats total from here.

If I'm correct in my assumptions, that should be 12 feats total overall. Does that match?

Edit:
It does! Yay!


Tactics review:
Fairly straight forward but as a minor quibble, the DM is left with no indication of just how many minions Sartel is likely to have with her; since the lamia matriarch is named in the stat block as a cohort (I presume she has been permitted to keep her head and to remain alive) it would seem reasonable to assume that she is part of the encounter as she is part of Sartel's CR.

No mention is made of is of the Hungry Decpaitant to 'sound the alarm' which is a missed opportunity I feel.

At this point I start wondering if headless zombies can 'see'?; if not then their opponents have a serious advantage in terms of 50% miss chances.

Scarab Sages

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Fairly straight forward but as a minor quibble, the DM is left with no indication of just how many minions Sartel is likely to have with her

To be fair, the entrants were instructed not to detail anything that wasn't directly part of the villain's stat block, even alternate forms such as wild shape. Cohorts were just supposed to be mentioned by name and level as part of the Leadership feat. Minions are presumably part of the Lair round and not the stat block round. Obviously, there are at least 3 minions involved in the combat, since she retreats if there are fewer than that many. Presumably there are several more, since what kind of villain runs back home when a single zombie dies? :p

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
At this point I start wondering if headless zombies can 'see'?; if not then their opponents have a serious advantage in terms of 50% miss chances.

Of course they can. Skeletons can see with no eyes (or brain, for that matter), after all, and ghosts don't even have a physical presence.

Ghouls might be a different story, since they're more than simple animated remains. But then, they might not. Organs aren't really relevant to undead.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 aka Lord Fyre

William Senn wrote:
Ghouls might be a different story, since they're more than simple animated remains. But then, they might not. Organs aren't really relevant to undead.

Ghouls have an even bigger problem. A ghoul with no head cannot eat. A Ghoul's reason for being is the eating of human (or other secentient) flesh.

Also, remember that the ghouls would lose their bite attack.

(But then I still think that decapitating a ghoul would destroy it.)


William Senn wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Fairly straight forward but as a minor quibble, the DM is left with no indication of just how many minions Sartel is likely to have with her

To be fair, the entrants were instructed not to detail anything that wasn't directly part of the villain's stat block, even alternate forms such as wild shape. Cohorts were just supposed to be mentioned by name and level as part of the Leadership feat. Minions are presumably part of the Lair round and not the stat block round. Obviously, there are at least 3 minions involved in the combat, since she retreats if there are fewer than that many. Presumably there are several more, since what kind of villain runs back home when a single zombie dies? :p

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
At this point I start wondering if headless zombies can 'see'?; if not then their opponents have a serious advantage in terms of 50% miss chances.

Of course they can. Skeletons can see with no eyes (or brain, for that matter), after all, and ghosts don't even have a physical presence.

Ghouls might be a different story, since they're more than simple animated remains. But then, they might not. Organs aren't really relevant to undead.

With regard to minions, at least I do have some general idea of those at Sartel's disposal, however - unlike some other entries which specify the use of minions in tactics but leave little idea of the specific nature of those minions. ;)

The decapitated undead, though, is bothering me, not least because in some traditions (and films) taking the head off of a physical undead such as a vampire or zombie is an accepted means of destroying it.
I know that there are stories out there that go the other way, where headless phantoms prowl the countryside, but these tend to be more incorporeal undead of a 'spirits' type so far as I am aware, and they are either searching for their heads or occasionally in the thrall of the necromancer/sorcerer who holds their head/skull.
If Sartel Bollen had an army of headless phantoms, surrounding a wagon piled high with the heads taken from their mortal remains (assume the creation/control to be something to do wth the head of Ydersius)... well that would be a much more lethal encounter for most parties, but a lot more flavoursome, I think.

Thinking further on this issue, whilst Arcane Poison has been fun to debate, I think it could have made for a stronger entry to have had the 'new rule' tied to all the shambling undead attached to the caravan.

Scarab Sages

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Thinking further on this issue, whilst Arcane Poison has been fun to debate, I think it could have made for a stronger entry to have had the 'new rule' tied to all the shambling undead attached to the caravan.

That's not a valid new rule entry though, because it'd have to be done as a template, and templates were specifically prohibited. In D&D, cutting off an undead's head does absolutely nothing, because D&D does not have location-based damage (the lone exception is a vorpal sword, and that, IIRC, specifically excludes undead).


William Senn wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Thinking further on this issue, whilst Arcane Poison has been fun to debate, I think it could have made for a stronger entry to have had the 'new rule' tied to all the shambling undead attached to the caravan.
That's not a valid new rule entry though, because it'd have to be done as a template, and templates were specifically prohibited. In D&D, cutting off an undead's head does absolutely nothing, because D&D does not have location-based damage (the lone exception is a vorpal sword, and that, IIRC, specifically excludes undead).

(edited, feat names corrected)

Gah. Typical... the one time I don't copy a response to clipboard, the boards eat the post.

Try again...

Perhaps I didn't explain the last bit so clearly.

I mean anything to do with undead would have been better in the context of a tightly themed Round 3 package than the very general Arcane Poison feat.
At the moment, Sartel is wobbling out of contention for my fourth vote because the feat isn't as tightly themed with her and what she does as the feats for Bracht Darkhouse and Jeroim Borloz are with them and what they do.
If the feat had been for zombies to have iron claws, or not a feat at all but a spell specifically intended to buff undead or a statting up of the Head of Ydersius it would have given Sartel a little more oomph than I'm seeing for what the Arcane Poison feat offers her.
Yes the Arcane Poison feat is generally useful, but it does the same for Sartel as it would for any spellcaster who prepares spells such as Hecataeus, or another spontaneous caster such as Malgana.
I see the Command Golem feat, and I think yes, Hecataeus would have to take a feat like that, as it works well with what he does.
I look at the Arcane Poison feat and think well Sartel could have taken Quicken Spell or Spell Focus [evocation] or Craft Wondrous Items instead...
I don't know if I'm being any clearer this time.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Tarren Dei

I may regret saying this, but I still like Sartel. She got one of my votes in the last round and has only gotten better since.


I think the imagery of this character carries it even through its few flaws. I love it and it gets my vote.


Sorry I did not comment on this before.

This is amazing. I LOVE the feat (though it does need some tweaking) and it is very much in line with the villain's theme.

Also, to the people who think that a villain having an army is "too hard" of an EL or whatever...have you ever watched a movie or read a story with a villain in it? They almost always have lackeys and minions and armies. Obviously only a very powerful party could confront such a force head on, and it would be foolish to do so generally, which I think is a GREAT plus for having this villain in a game. It might take some *gasp!* planning and role-playing before rushing in and hitting things!

Anyway, this villain definitely gets my vote. Awesome work.


After reading the discussion on Arcane Poison, I'm of the opinion that it's over powered as written. While you may or may not think it's a good idea, the round to vote on ideas was round 2. Round 3 is about execution.

In addition, the feat isn't well matched with the villan. I would have prefered something that dealt with those severed heads she carries around. You said "Heads of scholars hang from her saddle ready to supply knowledge and offer council." How are they able to do this? Why would they want to offer advise?

I still like the headless army idea. However, this is probably not going to get one of my votes.

Scarab Sages

Jason Rice wrote:
You said "Heads of scholars hang from her saddle ready to supply knowledge and offer council." How are they able to do this? Why would they want to offer advise?

You did see the wand of speak with dead in her gear list, right? No new rules required.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6 , Dedicated Voter Season 6

Solid execution on a concept that was in my top half last round. The feat doesn't grab me - I don't particularly like spell-riders, and it potentially adds more die-rolling. But with a nerf or a boost in caster level, it could be a workable feat.

Sadly, I think this one's going to narrowly miss my vote again, but I expect to see you advance regardless.


After consideration, Sartel Bollen was not a tightly enough themed overall package for me.
Despite my overall reservations regarding this villain from the previous round, Sartel was executed as a stat block well enough to at least make me take a long hard look at her for my last Round 3 vote, which put her in my top 6 for this round.


I am completely enamored with this entry. I have been since the last round. I can think of several story arches for my players the involve run ins with her. I would love to see how the Head is handled. I can't wait to see what this entrant does with her for the next round. #1 on my list.


Does Sartel Bollen even have a lair?
Well now perhaps we find out*!
Congratulations on making Round 4.

Edit:
*Or perhaps not, having seen the Round 4 rules....

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Tarren Dei

Tarren Dei wrote:
I may regret saying this, but I still like Sartel. She got one of my votes in the last round and has only gotten better since.

Congratulations. I was worried that there would be a surprise and either you or I wouldn't be in this round, but I'm glad you're here.

Dark Archive

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Does Sartel Bollen even have a lair?

Yep, the description says that she flees back to the place where she found the head(I'm pretty sure its the same place). Personally though, I think seeing a caravan designed like a lair would be awesome. I really hope someone picks it up.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4

Arcane Poison (Metamagic)
You can imbue your damaging spells with a deadly arcane venom.
Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd.
Benefit: Upon gaining this feat choose one ability score (strength, dexterity, etc.). Upon casting the spell, the caster chooses one, and only one, of the spell's targets to be effected by the arcane poison. If that creature takes hit point damage from the arcane poison spell, it also take 1 point of temporary ability score damage to the chosen ability each round for a total of four rounds. Each round of ability damage, the poisoned target gets a save to negated this and later rounds of poison delivered by this specific spell. The saving throw is a Fortitude save (DC equal to 10 + base spell level + spellcasting ability score modifier). Creatures cannot be effected by more than one arcane poison spell, that deals the same type of ability damage, at the same time. Spells that do not deal hit point damage are not affected by arcane poison. Creatures that are immune to poison are immune to the arcane poison. An arcane poison spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new ability score. You can, however, apply arcane poison multiple times to the same spell, so long as each application affects a separate ability score.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4

After reading what everyone wrote above and some play testing on my own, this is what I have came up with to level out the Arcane Poison feat. Please read it closely and play test it a little and give me some more feed back. I really think this is a feat take players would want in there list of choices, not just a feat to give an one-time villain.

That said I would like to thank everyone for their comments, if you voted for me or not. Yes it would be nice to win this contest, but I also think we are here to learn how other gamers away from our personal gaming table work and think, and what they want. The more you comment, the more myself and the others in the contest can learn and grow as authors and designers. So again thank you.


On the spelling/grammar nitpick front, I think you mean 'affected', not 'effected'.... :)

Edit:
The feat looks less abusable to me, but I'm not familiar enough with ability damage vs. non-stacking penalties to be able to say if it still has some level of abuse in it.

Scarab Sages

A friend of Matt's (Not me! I'm not that talented) drew up an image of Sartel and her caravan shortly after round 2, but he didn't want to post it before he was eliminated out of a desire to not skew the voting. Also, he wasn't able to get it scanned 'til just now. Anyway, here it is, and IMO is an amazing piece of concept art and really captures the character well:

Sartel Bollen, Mistress of the Headless Caravan

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