(Trust me I know as I have a ton of friends in the GLBTI community)
I have to ask... what does that 'I' stand for. Everytime I see the label for the community it is like someone spilled alphabet soup all over it. isn't easier to just say the gay community? I am being honest here, so there is no snark intended.
The I stands for Intersex, someone neither male or female.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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(Trust me I know as I have a ton of friends in the GLBTI community)
I found out what a bear was the other day. My nickname is 'the wookiee' and someone kept calling me a bear. I didn't think anything of it. Then someone asked me if I was a bear or a *bear*. I said "I have long hair and a beard, and I am stocky. That does not make me a real bear." They said something to the order of "no but are you a *bear*?"
I used to be called The Bear in High school. As I started running with a different crowd, I dropped that nickname for much the same reasons.*
(Bit more mature 'Bear story')
When the first picture came up, I'd never seen anyone hit the delete button so fast in their life.
*
The I stands for Intersex, someone neither male or female.
(Trust me I know as I have a ton of friends in the GLBTI community)
I have to ask... what does that 'I' stand for. Everytime I see the label for the community it is like someone spilled alphabet soup all over it. isn't easier to just say the gay community? I am being honest here, so there is no snark intended.
I thought androgynous was used to describe people who exhibit the intersex characteristic. Is that not hte case anymore? Or is it completely different?
EDIT: Upon searching I had no idea those were psychological issues. I thought it was just a correctable biological condition.
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(Trust me I know as I have a ton of friends in the GLBTI community)
I have to ask... what does that 'I' stand for. Everytime I see the label for the community it is like someone spilled alphabet soup all over it. isn't easier to just say the gay community? I am being honest here, so there is no snark intended.
I thought I new a bit about the community because of my sister in law. Clearly I do not.
I found out what a bear was the other day. My nickname is 'the wookiee' and someone kept calling me a bear. I didn't think anything of it. Then someone asked me if I was a bear or a *bear*. I said "I have long hair and a beard, and I am stocky. That does not make me a real bear." They said something to the order of "no but are you a *bear*?"
I said NO, because I do not hybernate for the winter. (annoyed because I thought the person kept insisting I was a mammal that hybernates).
Than my wife explained to me what the person meant by *bear*, and that basically if I was gay that is what I would be. Turns out the person was my sister in law's female straight friend. Now they all call me a bear. Sigh.
So yeah that is why I think Harsk is a bear. Just a little one.
I = Inter-sexed it was a recent addition to the GLBT (like 4 or 5 years ago)
Inter-sexed are those people born of both genders or neither gender if some want to look at it that way. I actually have 2 cousins born that way. 1 Very mild and they made her female, the other very inter-sexed that should have been made male but they made her female. They actual term for them is Hermaphrodite. When they are young the medical society used to decide right away what gender they should be. In some cases they made the wrong choice. It has been discussed recently (like past 5 or 6 years) to actually wait and see what gender the child deviates to as that is the gender they should be. if the choice is made to early, then the child suffers through a much more difficult life and even more surgery.
In some respect this is also how transgender works. The brain is programmed in the mothers womb to be male or female not just in the brain but the chromosome. While the chromosome may say XX or XY the brain may be different. You cannot change the brain, or the chromosome but you can change the appearance and thus prevent much discomfort and the brain is thus satisfied to the gender it thinks itself to be.
This HAS been proven to be a medical issue and not a mental issue and why most civilized countries actually cover for the needed surgeries to correct this medical "Defect" The US is the ONLY civilized country besides maybe Russia that does not. Even Iran and Cuba cover it funny enough and accept these individuals while the US is 3rd world in that belief even though the AMA (American medical Association) says it is discriminatory not to cover or treat this condition.
So hope that gives insight to it.
As for Bear... I guess I do not get it. To me, bear means someone large in body... not ummms well, you get the point. Not just someone who has long hair or a beard or what ever.
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Its all fun and dandy to have Gay/Les/Trans/Bi....did I get everyone? Sorry if I missed a group or two ;)
Don't you think it will distract from gaming? I mean we all know what gamers do and say when the Barmaid comes to the table at the local tavern. A couple seconds of sexual remarks is the norm I guess but any more than that the game gets hijacked by PC's who want to go around and have sex, relationships with x,y,z NPC's! I've seen it recently and my is it sad and frustrating for the other Players at the table.
Now imagine party members getting it on and roleplaying those encounters. What a drag (no pun) on the campaign.
At a recent Chicagoland D&D meet up a couple Gay guys played and kept doing all the above, in their case the male bouncer at the tavern and making advances to the male PC's of the group. At first it was amusing b/c we are roleplaying and having fun with it. After a while it just got weird and we had a hard time (no pun) getting on track to run the game. Thankfully the "gamer" got a hold of them and we actually rolled some d20's and saved the day.
The other time a straight guy playing did the same thing to a female NPC in the game. This one was so over the top we now call it "I'm a Badass Barbarian" incident. I'd be happy to tell you all the story if your intersted.
In summary, I stay away from the personal stuff in regards to sexual orientation of the NPC's & Players.
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Its all fun and dandy to have Gay/Les/Trans/Bi....did I get everyone? Sorry if I missed a group or two ;)
Don't you think it will distract from gaming? I mean we all know what gamers do and say when the Barmaid comes to the table at the local tavern. A couple seconds of sexual remarks is the norm I guess but any more than that the game gets hijacked by PC's who want to go around and have sex, relationships with x,y,z NPC's! I've seen it recently and my is it sad and frustrating for the other Players at the table.
Now imagine party members getting it on and roleplaying those encounters. What a drag (no pun) on the campaign.At a recent Chicagoland D&D meet up a couple Gay guys played and kept doing all the above, in their case the male bouncer at the tavern and making advances to the male PC's of the group. At first it was amusing b/c we are roleplaying and having fun with it. After a while it just got weird and we had a hard time (no pun) getting on track to run the game. Thankfully the "gamer" got a hold of them and we actually rolled some d20's and saved the day.
The other time a straight guy playing did the same thing to a female NPC in the game. This one was so over the top we now call it "I'm a Badass Barbarian" incident. I'd be happy to tell you all the story if your intersted.
In summary, I stay away from the personal stuff in regards to sexual orientation of the NPC's & Players.
Pretty much everyone plays a variant on the game.
In mine the players have relationships but we fade to black in the bedroom.
It works okay.
Of course, nobody plays a lame jerk who hits on every other npc.
Would any of this change of we had not-hetero PCs or NPCs? Well, it hasn't so far.
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IMHO it should NEVER go into detail. My inquisitor of Calistria brokered a deal to not only get paid in gold but a night with 2 of the best guards. It was never more than Ok you spend the night them and one was good the other bland. It took no more than 2 minutes for it all. it took less time than PC's buy equipment. There is a point when it becomes to much RP, but the RP SHOULD happen just like any, as long as it never goes over the top, but this includes anything from performing in the tavern, to praying at the temple, or studying at the school
My BF once played a bard. It would be said he was a bit, Mick Jagger, Elvis, Jim Morrison, Rod Stewart. In darn near every tavern ir inn we went to he had to attacked the ladies. he's make his roles and then it went to black screen and that was that. On occasion my swashbuckler would walk in on him and cause him grief, but it was all part of the sexual tension between the two and made for some fun RP as he would talk his way out.
But what if you actually had a pair of same-sex gods? And not the god of gay-love I and the god of gay-love II, but like the god of farming and the god of banking or something (I tried to avoid god of crafting, god of blacksmiths, god of sailors, or anything else possibly stereotypical just to make them as non-niche as possible).
God of lumberjacks perhaps? Certain song comes to mind... ;)
"As for Bear... I guess I do not get it. To me, bear means someone large in body... not ummms well, you get the point. Not just someone who has long hair or a beard or what ever.
IIRC from speaking with a declared gay gamer on one rpg chat a few years ago that "bear" may refer to big and hairy homosexuals (i.e. someone might say that he has foundness for *bears* when stating what type of partners he likes, physically). I don't know how common it is amongst LGBDSMTI* and some other letters are added in more or less random order
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But what if you actually had a pair of same-sex gods? And not the god of gay-love I and the god of gay-love II, but like the god of farming and the god of banking or something (I tried to avoid god of crafting, god of blacksmiths, god of sailors, or anything else possibly stereotypical just to make them as non-niche as possible).God of lumberjacks perhaps? Certain song comes to mind... ;)
"As for Bear... I guess I do not get it. To me, bear means someone large in body... not ummms well, you get the point. Not just someone who has long hair or a beard or what ever.IIRC from speaking with a declared gay gamer on one rpg chat a few years ago that "bear" may refer to big and hairy homosexuals (i.e. someone might say that he has foundness for *bears* when stating what type of partners he likes, physically). I don't know how common it is amongst LGBDSMTI* and some other letters are added in more or less random order
*** spoiler omitted **.
My BF refers to it as GLBTIOU, so I know the whole adding of letters thing and how confusing it can get. The letters keep growing. i think it was 10 years ago it was just GLB and yes the letters also get swapped, LGBT or BGLT how about BIGLOT O for Other :P
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In RPGs I've played the gamut. Straight female, straight male, gay male, lesbian female, bisexual, combination of. The only appreciable difference is what the player chooses to input.
As a GM I've run games for characters that run a wider gamut. A whole party of transwomen. A dedicated furry. A completely asexual fighter. A magically engineered fully functional hermaphrodite.
My current game includes an inquisitor of Calistra who considers 'brothel inspection' a necessary duty of her class and goddess. And only proper that the female inquisitors be the ones who inspect the female prostitutes because how could a male tell if conditions and, ah, things were working right?
Homosexuality in Golarion is what you make of it. Paizo gives us the option to make something of it. That option, IMO, is what makes Golarion superior. Just as Numeria gives us the option for robots, Alkenstar gives us the option for flintlock pistols, and the Darklands give us the option for drow and serpentfolk.
I prefer to use these options. All of them. Not just because of my own identity but because options are what make a setting rich, broad, appealing, and organic. Because this is what makes Golarion alive.
First I want to say that I honestly appreciate the inclusion of homosexual characters in Pathfinder, Queen Ileosa and Sabina for example, as most RPGs seem to ignore this group completely. However it seems to me that Paizo has fallen into the trap of only making female gay characters. What I would like to see are some gay male characters and transsexuals in Golarion, the women have had their fun, let the boys and anyone in between in on it as well!
Also, I would like to see some information on how these groups are generally treated in the various societies on Golarion (most of what I've seen up til now seems to be quite progressive, but I doubt that is true for the entire world).
well, I'd like to say that it's not a perfect world until you have characters representing pretty much everything our world has to offer. One thing I'm surprised about is that it's so controversial (i.e. Hot Topic).
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In RPGs I've played the gamut. Straight female, straight male, gay male, lesbian female, bisexual, combination of. The only appreciable difference is what the player chooses to input
Same here, I have played each gender as gay/les, bi, and straight. One of the guys in my group played a shemale character once.
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Here's a question that I've got about the whole gay thing...
If someone put on a belt of opposite gender or whatever it's called and ended up a dude (or a chick).
we know that
1) The belt ONLY changes gender and nothing else. This, I assume... would be what they are attracted to.
Sooo... if a straight man or straight woman put the belt on, then they would still be attracted to the gender they were attracted to before, right? Because everything, including the spirit stays the same, only their XY chromosome changes.
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Here's a question that I've got about the whole gay thing...
If someone put on a belt of opposite gender or whatever it's called and ended up a dude (or a chick).
we know that
1) The belt ONLY changes gender and nothing else. This, I assume... would be what they are attracted to.
Sooo... if a straight man or straight woman put the belt on, then they would still be attracted to the gender they were attracted to before, right? Because everything, including the spirit stays the same, only their XY chromosome changes.
That's the way it works for us.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Here's a question that I've got about the whole gay thing...
If someone put on a belt of opposite gender or whatever it's called and ended up a dude (or a chick).
we know that
1) The belt ONLY changes gender and nothing else. This, I assume... would be what they are attracted to.
Sooo... if a straight man or straight woman put the belt on, then they would still be attracted to the gender they were attracted to before, right? Because everything, including the spirit stays the same, only their XY chromosome changes.
So not safe for work, but here's a 3.5 take on it
This is probably off topic but since it's been brought up I will educate those who don't know.
Bear - generally heavy-set men with hairy bodies and/or facial hair.
Cub - generally younger version of a bear with the exception that they sometimes lack the hairy body.
Otter - generally men who are slender and hairy
Wolf - generally men who are muscular and hairy
These are the four main catagories for those with a hairy fetish.
I'm an Otter and thoroughly enjoy going to leather bars. :)
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Here's a question that I've got about the whole gay thing...
If someone put on a belt of opposite gender or whatever it's called and ended up a dude (or a chick).
we know that
1) The belt ONLY changes gender and nothing else. This, I assume... would be what they are attracted to.
Sooo... if a straight man or straight woman put the belt on, then they would still be attracted to the gender they were attracted to before, right? Because everything, including the spirit stays the same, only their XY chromosome changes.
Assuming you're defining "straight" as "only physically attracted to/aroused by a particular sex" mixed with "happen to be the opposite sex." Another definition could be "only physically aroused by/interested in heterosexual intercourse" in which case this works just fine. Thorne Smith did this rather famously in a novel Turnabout where a husband and wife switch bodies.
Gender swapping is one of those famous "curses" that are only curses when they're undesired or uncontrolled.
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Here's a question that I've got about the whole gay thing...
If someone put on a belt of opposite gender or whatever it's called and ended up a dude (or a chick).
we know that
1) The belt ONLY changes gender and nothing else. This, I assume... would be what they are attracted to.
Sooo... if a straight man or straight woman put the belt on, then they would still be attracted to the gender they were attracted to before, right? Because everything, including the spirit stays the same, only their XY chromosome changes.Assuming you're defining "straight" as "only physically attracted to/aroused by a particular sex" mixed with "happen to be the opposite sex." Another definition could be "only physically aroused by/interested in heterosexual intercourse" in which case this works just fine. Thorne Smith did this rather famously in a novel Turnabout where a husband and wife switch bodies.
Gender swapping is one of those famous "curses" that are only curses when they're undesired or uncontrolled.
Yeah, I mean they're great for people who are transgendered. No long bouts of hormone therapy or surgery. Just a spell and you're a new woman... or man.
Unless it goes wrong, then you're an it...| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is probably off topic but since it's been brought up I will educate those who don't know.
Bear - generally heavy-set men with hairy bodies and/or facial hair.
Cub - generally younger version of a bear with the exception that they sometimes lack the hairy body.
Otter - generally men who are slender and hairy
Wolf - generally men who are muscular and hairy
Thank you for informat...
These are the four main catagories for those with a hairy fetish.
I'm an Otter and thoroughly enjoy going to leather bars. :)
I said thank you! This is certainly too much information now!
;)
This is probably off topic but since it's been brought up I will educate those who don't know.
Bear - generally heavy-set men with hairy bodies and/or facial hair.
Cub - generally younger version of a bear with the exception that they sometimes lack the hairy body.
Otter - generally men who are slender and hairy
Wolf - generally men who are muscular and hairy
Thank you for informat...
These are the four main catagories for those with a hairy fetish.
I'm an Otter and thoroughly enjoy going to leather bars. :)I said thank you! This is certainly too much information now!
;)
lol, sorry. I'll try to keep the TMI to a minimum next time. ;)
I'd prefer my rpg's to be free of political axe-grinding, no matter the flavor. The Crimson Throne relationships are good stories and don't stick out like a sore thumb. "Let's make a gay paladin and good doctor that provides abortions" and "one or more of the iconics is gay" strikes me as intentionally sticking the same sore thumb in the collective eye of people who are bothered by those ideas. Does Paizo really need to take a stand on these issue? What's next? Militant vegan iconics? Anti-union iconics? Does one iconic support the closing of the Chilexian border?
I could really do without yet another media outlet sneaking in their unrelated editorial bias. For what it's worth, I'm generally inclined to agree with the Paizo editorial bias, but that's not really the relevant question. The question is whether Paizo is serving the story or their political ideology. If it's the former, I'm groovy (I'm looking at you Crimson Throne), if it's the later, I'm a little disgusted (a gay iconic). Just as I would encourage my fellow posters to air their political views in the appropriate forums or threads, so too would I encourage my friends at Paizo with regards to their beliefs. I don't give a rat's ass what the sexual preferences of the iconics are in a vacuum - if you've got a story to tell and it involves those issues, I'll listen, but I can do without the pithy political soundbite and attempts to beat people with an unwelcome ideology, regardless of whether its my ideology or not.
Sebastian,
Thank you for wrapping up all my thoughts in that paragraph. After reading many of the posts of the Paizo staff I believe its the later.
Woo, tangent. Also, that thing? With the tsundere times three? THAT HAPPENED.That's dangerous.
Also, :D
It would be more impressive if the thread hadn't slipped back into dormancy after I tried to link you to the post.
But yes.
:D
Verily.
Now I just need to find the right devian...er, artistic genius to take on the DamielxLirianne Project™.
Though now there's a part of me that is tempted to go with a HayatoxSeltyiell BroodingAngstyHurt/Comfort type thing, in light of this thread. "His honor demanded he spare the magus; the magus' pride demanded he offer something to the samurai. Conflicted, they found themselves unexpectedly force to work together, a bond forming that neither could have foreseen..."
I believe its up to the DM/Players to decide where they want to take their game. Let us decide whether or not Harsk is doing Lem in the back of the wagon between dungeon crawls.
My suggestion would be for Paizo to spend more creative time making their books hold together and less time creating a politically correct, diversity utopia. Leave that to the players.
This doesn't make much sense to me. Simply noting that homosexuals exist in the Golarion setting is not an attempt to be politically correct. If that were true, and you believe in a god, then god was being politically correct by creating this Universe when he allowed the existence of homosexuals.
Homosexuality is a real sexual preference seen in nature...why shouldn't it be found in Golarion? To me saying it is up to the DM to decide whether they want homosexuals in Golarion is the same as saying that every human in Pathfinder should be white and it is up to the DM to decide if he wants to add black people.
Does anyone else find this entire thread amusing or am I just twisted?
Its up to the GROUP if they want Homosexual "content" in the game.
Leave God out of this please? I do not wish to get into a Theological discussion on the boards b/c i'm 100% certain I'll be flagged by the board mafia and then banned. I'll just say your wrong and you will understand one day. (Bait not taken)
I cannot with a clear mind equate homosexual activity to a racial/gender group. That is another topic I wish to stay away from for the same reason. What I will say is that equating it to womans suffrage and the civil rights movement is simply wrong.
On the topic, since I and my gaming group play in a traditional D&D setting based in a fantasy midevil Europe which is White and we are all a shade of Indo-European we just play our characters as White and assume NPC's are White.
Really man, you could do whatever you want with your character. Just find a group that wants to play your game.
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I'd prefer my rpg's to be free of political axe-grinding, no matter the flavor. The Crimson Throne relationships are good stories and don't stick out like a sore thumb. "Let's make a gay paladin and good doctor that provides abortions" and "one or more of the iconics is gay" strikes me as intentionally sticking the same sore thumb in the collective eye of people who are bothered by those ideas. Does Paizo really need to take a stand on these issue? What's next? Militant vegan iconics? Anti-union iconics? Does one iconic support the closing of the Chilexian border?
I could really do without yet another media outlet sneaking in their unrelated editorial bias. For what it's worth, I'm generally inclined to agree with the Paizo editorial bias, but that's not really the relevant question. The question is whether Paizo is serving the story or their political ideology. If it's the former, I'm groovy (I'm looking at you Crimson Throne), if it's the later, I'm a little disgusted (a gay iconic). Just as I would encourage my fellow posters to air their political views in the appropriate forums or threads, so too would I encourage my friends at Paizo with regards to their beliefs. I don't give a rat's ass what the sexual preferences of the iconics are in a vacuum - if you've got a story to tell and it involves those issues, I'll listen, but I can do without the pithy political soundbite and attempts to beat people with an unwelcome ideology, regardless of whether its my ideology or not.
Sebastian,
Thank you for wrapping up all my thoughts in that paragraph. After reading many of the posts of the Paizo staff I believe its the later.
I'm not certain why having a gay iconic would be any more disgusting than having an African (or at least Mwangi) iconic (Seelah), a renegade suffragette from a patriarchal culture (Amiri), or a runaway slave from an enslaved race (Lem). Certainly it could be boring to read long speeches from Seelah about the repression of the Mwangi people by colonial powers, exhaustive feminist tirades from Amiri about the evils of the patriarchy, and endless recitals of whatever the Cheliaxian analogues are for "John Brown's Body" and "Uncle Tom's Cabin" from Lem (though to be fair, I would love to see the Cheliaxian's faces at a production of the later, especially when Simon Le Gris is swallowed up by the river and Little Eva is taken up into Heaven).
Certainly gay rights is at the forefront of current day political dialogue, at least in the United States--it's already been pretty much settled everywhere else in the Western world, or at least in Canada, most of Europe, and I don't have time to look up the list. The Civil Rights movement was before that, at least in the US. Women's Suffrage before that. Before that the abolition of slavery. You get the general picture.
But rather than looking at the US, look at another modern wealthy nation like, say, Saudi Arabia where women still don't have the right to vote. Sure, they've been promised it--in 2015--but imagine running Amiri's bio sheet across the desk of some member of the Saudi religious police. Might he be offended at the sight of this unveiled woman in midriff-baring armor wielding a giant broadsword with an axe to grind and then some about women's rights?
I'm certain he'd be able to cite the relevant passages of the Koran as to why midriff-baring armor is taboo and related centuries of precedent as to why women voting isn't a great idea either. Most people reading this would write him off as a prudish repressive old coot who needs to get with the 21st century rather than hide behind one or two lines in an antiquated holy book. Women have voted in other countries for generations and the world hasn't ended yet. Similarly bikinis have failed to end it as well.
Move across the Atlantic to the US and imagine if, for example, in some new book, there was some brief scene with the iconics where it was revealed that Sajan was gay, Valeros was bi, Seoni was unconcerned with this revelation, and Merisiel was only upset that she hadn't been invited to watch--not that this stopped her--and it was a pity that Sajan didn't like girls because those Kama Sutra positions had looked really hot.
Could there be any objections to this beyond a line or two in an antiquated holy book and failure to get with the 21st century? I'm not talking about a scene with long pontificating about equal rights, just a bit of candid banter between old friends about sexual encounters and pairings that had happened off-stage, with this relevant in some way to the rules mechanics in the next section, like for example Sajan needing a catamite to charge up his kundalini to deal with the BBEG.
Also, if Merisiel became Sajan's new best friend, would she count as a hag for purposes completing a witch's coven?
sigh....I wish another company took over the 3.5 brand and left the real world head aches in the real world.
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Thanks for that evenhanded response KAM. I really don't see how being inclusive equals politcal axe-grinding either.
I remember when 3.0 first hit and some people raised hell about OMG BLACK PEOPLE in their PHB messing up their pristine medieval European fantasy(never mind that D&D had grown past those boundries a LONG time ago but that's a thread derailin' tangent). And some complained about that being an example of political correctness gone wild.
@#$% that noise.
Also, if Merisiel became Sajan's new best friend, would she count as a hag for purposes completing a witch's coven?
FAQ'ed for PFS legality.
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It would be more impressive if the thread hadn't slipped back into dormancy after I tried to link you to the post.
That thread keeps coming back up when I'm at work. :( One of these days...
HayatoxSeltyiell BroodingAngstyHurt/Comfort type thing
Y'know, if there's any iconic that's going to be the fandom bicycle for Pathfinder yaoi fangirls....
Thanks for that evenhanded response KAM. I really don't see how being inclusive equals politcal axe-grinding either.
I remember when 3.0 first hit and some people raised hell about OMG BLACK PEOPLE in their PHB messing up their pristine medieval European fantasy(never mind that D&D had grown past those boundries a LONG time ago but that's a thread derailin' tangent). And some complained about that being an example of political correctness gone wild.
@#$% that noise.
FAQ'ed for PFS legality.Also, if Merisiel became Sajan's new best friend, would she count as a hag for purposes completing a witch's coven?
Yeah, I never heard anyone raising hell about Black people in the PHB. If you did those people dont belong at my gaming table.
Yeah, I never heard anyone raising hell about Black people in the PHB. If you did those people dont belong at my gaming table.
Believe me you, *I* did.
Not out of malevolence, either, but out of a sort of inexplicable cognitive dissonance.
Never mind that a good number of my then-group were fans of Conan style swords and sorcery, and the fact that there were certainly folks of a darker persuasion in THOSE stories, Howard's proclivities and eccentricities aside. For whatever reason, High Fantasy trended towards a lighter shade of humanity overall in their heads. Some had particularly...tactless...things to say regarding Al-Qadim back in the 2E days, and the last of the group who hadn't relocated was quick to put his foot in his mouth regarding Nyambé. He'd already made comments about Affirmative Action Iconics then; I've not heard from said individual in a while, so I don't know where they stand on Seelah.
The weird thing is, such issues are never a problem in regards to actual day to day life - it's when it 'intrudes' upon his fantasy time that it becomes a source of kvetching.
An un-amusing irony to me is that one of my group members from high school, who committed suicide during his junior year over the internal conflict between his orientation and his faith, had played characters of all genders and orientation, and showed a marked preference for being the party womanizer when orientation-appropriate to the character, even though he had no interest in them in the real world. He also made sure that, for sake of fairness, female characters were equally subject to the leering flirtations, regardless of player.
For some reason this brings to mind the complaints people have about Oriental Fantasy getting mixed in with their Generic Fantasy, and the sheer amount of complaint that resulted vis a vis Ultimate Combat. Ogre Magi are fine if you don't call them oni, but heavens forbid you invoke anything that smells faintly of ninja, samurai, or a hint of wuxia...
Given how much of a kitchen sink Fantasy can be at times anyways, why would someone obsess about 'purity' in their settings, unless it's a specifically Historical Fantasy, and at that point wouldn't they be self-selecting at that point? I mean, you aren't exactly going to be finding baku in Eternal Rome, or Wendigo in the Testament setting RAW...
That thread keeps coming back up when I'm at work. :( One of these days...It would be more impressive if the thread hadn't slipped back into dormancy after I tried to link you to the post.
I try to keep it updated for people. Plus, people seem to get distracted and/or freaked out in waves, so it becomes a matter of reviving it once the 'skeeve' factor has waned. That, or people only hit that thread up when they have immediate art to contribute, instead of brainstorms or artist suggestions. Why, no, that's not a hint at all...
HayatoxSeltyiel BroodingAngstyHurt/Comfort type thingY'know, if there's any iconic that's going to be the fandom bicycle for Pathfinder yaoi fangirls....
Bicycle, nothing, from his inception he has been the Iconic (SNERK!) Doorknob. Consider; white haired pretty boy, token evil team mate, the Woobie, bishonen (to many tastes), 'impossibly' low neckline, dark and troubled past...
The only way he could be more seme-tastic is if he sparkled, and since he's an arcane caster, he could do that too if he wanted.
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??? What does alignment have to do with political messages? What? You could equally say that making him (who are we talking about anyway? is this just a hypothetical alchemist?) evil would be a political statement. I think people are reading far too into this. You need a lot more than a throw-away character tidbit and an alignment descriptor to start a political movement.
So, uhh, back on topic, I wonder what Asmodeus thinks about homosexuality. I believe I read somewhere that Hell is actually specifically misogynist and male-centric. Gay devils? Or would it simply be a bunch of hooligans egging the "Sacred Whores" on to put on a show for them?
On the other side of things, we have Socothbenoth, who probably sleeps with anything living (and some things that aren't)... demons probably couldn't give a toss about this kind of thing.
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??? What does alignment have to do with political messages? What? You could equally say that making him (who are we talking about anyway? is this just a hypothetical alchemist?) evil would be a political statement. I think people are reading far too into this. You need a lot more than a throw-away character tidbit and an alignment descriptor to start a political movement.
So, uhh, back on topic, I wonder what Asmodeus thinks about homosexuality. I believe I read somewhere that Hell is actually specifically misogynist and male-centric. Gay devils? Or would it simply be a bunch of hooligans egging the "Sacred Whores" on to put on a show for them?
On the other side of things, we have Socothbenoth, who probably sleeps with anything living (and some things that aren't)... demons probably couldn't give a toss about this kind of thing.
I suspect as long as one partner was clearly dominant, the big A would be ok with it. Probably an attitude similar to the ancient Greeks or Roamsn, can't remember exactly which, that only the one 'receiving' was gay and the other was just demonstrating his superiority and dominance.
It's a fantasy game with "dragons" and other monsters in it. Since it's not real, who cares. With the number of players out in today's world, you don't have to accept anyone at your table (unless you're married to them) and as long as you make it clear at the front of your game, what your fantasy concept is, and everyone agrees to it, you're golden.
Likewise, the game needs to be tailored for your player audience. If it's a bunch of kids, (they already know more about sex than I do at 39.) You downplay the relationships between toons and focus on the adventure. If it's a more mature audience, then great explore whatever "fantasy" you want to explore. The goal is to have fun with your friends and buddies.