Homosexuality in Golarion


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Paul Watson wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
Back to the topic at hand can someone actually tell me where this Abortional alchemist actually is. I don't recall seeing it anywhere and I have the majority of Paizo's source books (Is quite possible I have just missed it)
It's the midwife in Sandpoint, Hannah Velerin. She's mentioned on page 70 and 71 of Burnt Offerings. This is part of the background detail of Sandpoint in that adventure.

And it seems our anti abortion crusader forgot the read the line where, "Hannah encourages all of the women she sees to carry to term."

Dark Archive

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SwnyNerdgasm wrote:
Now as for the deific interracial relationship in Tien, I have no plan to pick up said book so I may be wrong, maybe the Tien cultures just don't see anything wrong with this coupling and understand love is love.

Note that the relationship is only mentioned in the write up of one of the goddesses in question, and even there it's said that neither god will confirm nor deny the relationship.

There's plenty of wiggle room for this to be nothing more than gossip, or even gossip being spread by one clergy, and not at all approved by the other church.

Given how much inter-species hoochie-coochie is going on in the average fantasy setting (dragon on human, human on elf, orc on human, angel on human, human on devil, human on vampire, hag on human, dryad on human, human on satyr, ogre on human, human on genie, etc.), I could imagined a concerned parent being relieved that their human son is 'only' shacking up with another male human...

Nothing says 'unnatural abomination' like finding out that your kid is in bed with something from another dimension entirely (even if the angel is really pretty).

Silver Crusade

Paul Watson wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
Back to the topic at hand can someone actually tell me where this Abortional alchemist actually is. I don't recall seeing it anywhere and I have the majority of Paizo's source books (Is quite possible I have just missed it)
It's the midwife in Sandpoint, Hannah Velerin. She's mentioned on page 70 and 71 of Burnt Offerings. This is part of the background detail of Sandpoint in that adventure.

Probably highly relevant at that considering on of the big breaking points before the adventure.

Rise of the Runelords spoilers:

Spoiler:
What with Nualia's anxiety over her pregnancy and her father's judgment, and then all of it going horribly wrong.

A lot of people used Hannah in different ways to get certain bits of info across, IIRC, and to drive some of the tragedy home.


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Set wrote:
Given how much inter-species hoochie-coochie is going on in the average fantasy setting (dragon on human, human on elf, orc on human, angel on human, human on devil, human on vampire, hag on human, dryad on human, human on satyr, ogre on human, human on genie, etc.), I could imagined a concerned parent being relieved that their human son is 'only' shacking up with another male human...

I never thought of it that way, that actually makes sense.

Dark Archive

Ah okay I see now

Copy and pasted from the actual source

Spoiler:

While Abstalar Zantus (area 1) does his best to take care of
Sandpoint’s truly sick and needy, he can’t help everyone. For
minor aches, pains, and illnesses, most of Sandpoint’s citizens
depend on Hannah Velerin (NG female elf cleric 3/expert 1).
Hannah spends most of her mornings out in the surrounding
wilds, gathering herbs or simply enjoying Gozreh’s bounty. In
the afternoons, she returns to her shop and home here to prepare
medicines and receive patients. Hannah’s ironically the one to go
to when either one wants to end a pregnancy or needs a midwife
to aid in a birth; Hannah encourages all of the women she sees
to carry to term, and advises the use of pinberry extract to young
women as a way to prevent unwanted pregnancies from happening
in the fi rst place, but in cases where there’s no other option, her
other services are discrete and confi dential.

For one thing she aint no Alchemist

Contributor

Set wrote:
SwnyNerdgasm wrote:
Now as for the deific interracial relationship in Tien, I have no plan to pick up said book so I may be wrong, maybe the Tien cultures just don't see anything wrong with this coupling and understand love is love.

Nothing says 'unnatural abomination' like finding out that your kid is in bed with something from another dimension entirely (even if the angel is really pretty).

Yog Sothoth is the "Key" and the "Gate." Heh-heh-heh, if you know what I mean....

Silver Crusade

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Kevin Mack wrote:

Ah okay I see now

Copy and pasted from the actual source

** spoiler omitted **

For one thing she aint no Alchemist

For the best. Who wants a bomb-packin' midwife in the house?


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ewan cummins 325 wrote:

It is still a very poor marketing move, IMO. If that sort of thing becomes common, I will no longer buy Paizo products. Others have also expressed concerns about this political content.

Everything is political. It would be equally political to deliberately NOT include homosexuals or other minorities.

Dark Archive

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Yog Sothoth is the "Key" and the "Gate." Heh-heh-heh, if you know what I mean....

Ew! I forgot those aberrant blood sorcerers, which suggest that somebody got busy with a gibbering mouther at some point.

Shadow Lodge

ewan cummins 325 wrote:
Alice Margatroid wrote:

... Hannah? Really?

...

I guess Night Tea is a political statement too.

:)

Not quite. Night Tea is a drug or poison- not a character. There is a clear difference. I think that Night Tea is a dubious and unnecessary addition to the equipment list, but it is not in your face and objectionable like the inclusion of a good aligned abortionist.

You asked about a hypotehtical evil aligned abortionist. I would actually be against that as well, although it would be harder to know if it should count as propaganda. Allow me to explain.

I'm not aware of anyone who claims that an evil person could NOT perform abortions, but a great many people do claim that abortion is murder and therefore an evil action. A good-aligned abortionist therfore seems calculated to offend a whole lot of people.

Now, you might argue that making her evil would have also been a politcal statement. Let us grant you that.

Why include abortionists in the game at all?

It does not fit the PG-13 feel they are supposedly going for in their products.

This is a prime example of the sort of thing that should be left out of the official books. It's way too controversial, and no matter how they handle it, they may offend a lot of people. We arem't just talking about lifestyle, we are talking about something millions of Americans consider to be murder. That's a big deal. I think Paizo would be most unwise to publish more NPCs like Hannah. One might be excused, but if a pattern is seen to develop, the reaction could be very bad.

YMMV

There have always been methods to terminate unwanted pregnancies. Many cultures throughout history did not view abortion as evil. Golarion is not America. Take your pick...

Silver Crusade

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Alice Margatroid wrote:
I'd like to return to thinking about Daikitsu and Nalinivati in the Dragon Empires, which is a very interesting coupling, in my opinion. The Tien apparently think that fertility and agriculture are strongly connected--and I can see why. Planting seeds, etc. But it's also an interracial relationship...and not something as minor as elf x human! Are the Tien more accepting of oddball relations like this?

Gah, those were the two I remember being mentioned before. AntiElite, you said you were looking for inspiration? ;)


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Starfinder Superscriber
Set wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Yog Sothoth is the "Key" and the "Gate." Heh-heh-heh, if you know what I mean....

Ew! I forgot those aberrant blood sorcerers, which suggest that somebody got busy with a gibbering mouther at some point.

We used Flumphs for the sorcerer in my game. It's just funnier that way. And let the flumphs not care if it was male or female they impregnated.

Silver Crusade

Set wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Yog Sothoth is the "Key" and the "Gate." Heh-heh-heh, if you know what I mean....

Ew! I forgot those aberrant blood sorcerers, which suggest that somebody got busy with a gibbering mouther at some point.

Hey, coulda been an azruverda y'know.

....

Oh God I can't unsee

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
DJEternalDarkness wrote:
Set wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Yog Sothoth is the "Key" and the "Gate." Heh-heh-heh, if you know what I mean....

Ew! I forgot those aberrant blood sorcerers, which suggest that somebody got busy with a gibbering mouther at some point.

We used Flumphs for the sorcerer in my game. It's just funnier that way. And let the flumphs not care if it was male or female they impregnated.

When I finally get my Heavens Oracle/Aberrant Sorcerer in play, I'm just going to roll with benign-alien-thing-that-looks-like-the-sea-people-from-The Abyss-except-with-tentacles-,also-Desnan.

Also, no battery smell.

Dark Archive

Mikaze wrote:
When I finally get my Heavens Oracle/Aberrant Sorcerer in play, I'm just going to roll with benign-alien-thing-that-looks-like-the-sea-people-from-The Abyss-except-with-tentacles-,also-Desnan.

Ooh, the Abyss aliens were both *alien* and yet beautiful. Great choice!


One member of my gaming group likes to play the village wise woman/hedge witch kind of trope. When he does, he makes sure she's always well stocked with those preventative herbs and whatever passes for prophylactics. Another player would regularly play the slutty kind of bad girls and always go to the hedge witch character for that morning after medicine.

Grand Lodge

It is strange or maybe I am just insensitive, but in my 30+ years of gaming, homosexuality or sexuality was never a really big part of our campaigns.... We rolled characters, went on epic adventures and that was it..There was very little or no relationship drama added..It was like "They were together" and that was as far as it went if that...We were more focused on kicking ass and taking names...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

A few things,

1) I want to point out I'm not ewan. I'm opinionated, not censoring. :P

2) I'm sad for my fellow Christians* who can't take a bit of ribbing. Compared to lions, torches and internal fighting, having 'teh gheys' showing up in a book isn't going to bring down anyone's faith.

3) Yeah, every faith has its fanatics. We had Amish attacking other Amish for not being "devout enough" here in Ohio of all things. It all comes down to choice. If free will means anything, conversion at the point of a sword (or AK-47) flies against (my belief in) Christianity.**

4) Personally, for me 'diversity' includes the good and the bad.***

5) What kind of 'symbols' do people think minorities would use to identify each other in Golarion? In Waterdeep, I seem to remember a flower code where how you wore a rose said if you were attached, looking for romance or a one night stand. Also using a steel grey rose was the 'sign' you preferred your own sex.

6) I still want a Left Handed Iconic. We deserve representation too! :P

*

Spoiler:
Clearly I'm generalizing. Personally I find it funny that my sister, the youth minister, reads her horoscope and gets tarot readings.

**
Spoiler:
I'm by my own admission a heretic. But my wiccan friends and I have an understanding. I joke "You don't try to turn me into a toad, I won't burn you at the stake." The truth of it is I don't interfere with them, and they return the favor.

***
Spoiler:
Yes, that means the evil bi queen in CotCT should be presented as much as a heroic bear. I find the controversy about Freedom Ring educational. Again, I don't recall any outcry when Thunderstrike was killed. If you're going to have any minority depicted realistically, making them all good is as bad as making them all evil. As a sub I knew said "We're not kinky people we are people who are kinky."

Spoiler:
best guess to who flags this first.

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

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I'm going to be removing a bunch of posts here, but before I do so, I would like to point out that the best part of the phrase "flag it and move on" is the "move on" part. If you see something that's uncool, please do flag it. But do not crap all over the thread by saying "I totally flagged this s+!!." That is uncool and does not help the conversation and will just get removed.


Matthew Morris wrote:
CotCT plot:
Yes, that means the evil bi queen in CotCT should be presented as much as a heroic bear. I find the controversy about Freedom Ring educational. Again, I don't recall any outcry when Thunderstrike was killed. If you're going to have any minority depicted realistically, making them all good is as bad as making them all evil.

CotCT plot:
Queen Ileosa's and her female lover(s) seemed to too easily fall into a few tropes (1, 2, 3) that have consistently reappeared over and over ad nauseum in mainstream entertainment. I know that certainly wasn't Paizo's writer's intent. And yes, I agree that "a**h*lishness" doesn't discriminate, hence a certain percentage of LGBTIQ peeps (fictional or otherwise) will be a**h*les. But for many of those LGBTIQ peeps still struggling to have their basic humanity and equality recognized, these wounds are still pretty tender.

Matthew Morris wrote:

A few things,

1) I want to point out I'm not ewan. I'm opinionated, not censoring. :P

2) I'm sad for my fellow Christians* who can't take a bit of ribbing. Compared to lions, torches and internal fighting, having 'teh gheys' showing up in a book isn't going to bring down anyone's faith.

3) Yeah, every faith has its fanatics. We had Amish attacking other Amish for not being "devout enough" here in Ohio of all things. It all comes down to choice. If free will means anything, conversion at the point of a sword (or AK-47) flies against (my belief in) Christianity.**

4) Personally, for me 'diversity' includes the good and the bad.***

5) What kind of 'symbols' do people think minorities would use to identify each other in Golarion? In Waterdeep, I seem to remember a flower code where how you wore a rose said if you were attached, looking for romance or a one night stand. Also using a steel grey rose was the 'sign' you preferred your own sex.

6) I still want a Left Handed Iconic. We deserve representation too! :P

*** spoiler omitted **
**** spoiler omitted **
***** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

I also want a left handed iconic.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks, PMG.

I like the idea about symbols, Matthew. I recall my father talking about how gay people (in this area perhaps?) used to wear yellow socks to indicate their persuasion. That was back a couple of decades though, so I guess these kinds of symbols would only be used in places where they might be repressed or it's not seen as appropriate to be openly gay. I suspect it would be very region-specific. Flowers is a good one... they're cheap and easily obtainable. Clothes as well, maybe a simple badge you could sew onto your clothes, or certain colours in certain places, like the socks idea.


Alice Margatroid wrote:

Thanks, PMG.

I like the idea about symbols, Matthew. I recall my father talking about how gay people (in this area perhaps?) used to wear yellow socks to indicate their persuasion. That was back a couple of decades though, so I guess these kinds of symbols would only be used in places where they might be repressed or it's not seen as appropriate to be openly gay. I suspect it would be very region-specific. Flowers is a good one... they're cheap and easily obtainable. Clothes as well, maybe a simple badge you could sew onto your clothes, or certain colours in certain places, like the socks idea.

You mean something like this? I actually used this for inspiration for my homebrew setting


Wow!

Didn't expect thread necromancy on this 'un, but I'm glad to see it discussed again... :)

IIRC, isn't "Rise of the Runelords" being updated and released as a hardcover campaign book this year? Maybe Hannah will be remained as an alchemist, since the character class didn't exist back then...

Also glad to hear that more gay characters will be appearing in print, even if it's most likely the novels.

Perhaps the upcoming Pathfinder comic will allow us to find out which of the iconics is family??

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda

Liberty's Edge

Wow... did not know that handkerchief code existed, Swny. But no, it was just basically a sign to say "hey, I'm gay and looking". Nothing more complicated than that.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Distrubing Hanky Code story.

Spoiler:
I went to my great aunt's 90th birthday party and I had a 15 year old distant cousin there. I was distubed to see a rather suspicious looking necklace and a grey hanky sticking out of her left back pocket. I wasn't about to ask her, but I knew what it could mean. I'm hoping it was a coincidence...

I could see a level 1 variant of arcane mark that glows when a command word is spoken. Using such as graffiti would be a way for an underground to function, whether it be Kuthites or polygamists.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Freedom Ring:

Spoiler:
I think it's part of the plot armor corundum you have with a 'special' character. It's like with Tara on Buffy. I've read that Willow's SO was doomed to die, whether it being OZ or Tara. So Willow would have gone all dark as a straight chick or a lesbian. Something like that is what is important to me as a view/reader. That if the character gets protection from their actions because they're different, then they aren't a character anymore to me. As written, stright Willow would have done the same things gay Willow did. Just like Freedom Ring was doomed straight or gay. I've said elsewhere I liked Sister Clarice's family in Caprica and Sam and his partner, because they were just 'there'. There wasn't a 'very special episode' for either.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Freedom Ring:

Spoiler:
I think it's part of the plot armor corundum you have with a 'special' character. It's like with Tara on Buffy. I've read that Willow's SO was doomed to die, whether it being OZ or Tara. So Willow would have gone all dark as a straight chick or a lesbian. Something like that is what is important to me as a view/reader. That if the character gets protection from their actions because they're different, then they aren't a character anymore to me. As written, stright Willow would have done the same things gay Willow did. Just like Freedom Ring was doomed straight or gay. I've said elsewhere I liked Sister Clarice's family in Caprica and Sam and his partner, because they were just 'there'. There wasn't a 'very special episode' for either.

Spoiler:
Ah, but Tara getting wacked plays into another old trope to give a protagonist the motivation to "cross the line" into unethical levels of violence, except in this case it's female Willow instead of a guy protagonist.

I'm not saying LGBTIQ peeps should be immune to being evil or a**h*les or doomed to die. I'm suggesting that because these three roles have been their roles almost exclusively in mainstream media until very recently, that recycling these plots/roles yet again and again ignores all the potential other growth (and setbacks) those characters could experience.


Mikaze wrote:
For the best. Who wants a bomb-packin' midwife in the house?

Well, thanks. Now I'm going to have to go and make one.


Set wrote:
Given how much inter-species hoochie-coochie is going on in the average fantasy setting (dragon on human, human on elf, orc on human, angel on human, human on devil, human on vampire, hag on human, dryad on human, human on satyr, ogre on human, human on genie, etc.), I could imagined a concerned parent being relieved that their human son is 'only' shacking up with another male human...

Hag on human has a funny ring to it.


ewan cummins 325 wrote:
Alice Margatroid wrote:

... Hannah? Really?

...

I guess Night Tea is a political statement too.

:)

Not quite. Night Tea is a drug or poison- not a character. There is a clear difference. I think that Night Tea is a dubious and unnecessary addition to the equipment list, but it is not in your face and objectionable like the inclusion of a good aligned abortionist.

You asked about a hypotehtical evil aligned abortionist. I would actually be against that as well, although it would be harder to know if it should count as propaganda. Allow me to explain.

I'm not aware of anyone who claims that an evil person could NOT perform abortions, but a great many people do claim that abortion is murder and therefore an evil action. A good-aligned abortionist therfore seems calculated to offend a whole lot of people.

Now, you might argue that making her evil would have also been a politcal statement. Let us grant you that.

Why include abortionists in the game at all?

It does not fit the PG-13 feel they are supposedly going for in their products.

This is a prime example of the sort of thing that should be left out of the official books. It's way too controversial, and no matter how they handle it, they may offend a lot of people. We arem't just talking about lifestyle, we are talking about something millions of Americans consider to be murder. That's a big deal. I think Paizo would be most unwise to publish more NPCs like Hannah. One might be excused, but if a pattern is seen to develop, the reaction could be very bad.

YMMV

This thread is vaguely starting to stink of D&D demon controversy. Have chik make a comic strip about pathfinder promoting abortions now...

Utterly ridiculous to attribute this to pathfinder.


Paul Watson wrote:
ewan cummins 325 wrote:
Aretas wrote:


Yes.

Are you kidding? WTF were they thinking?

Are they actively trying to lose customers? What happened to PG-13?

Taking a side in the hot button abortion debate, even bringing it up...NOT A GOOD MOVE.

They're probably thinking their customers are mature, sane people who can distinguish between fantasy and fiction. After all, Paladins conduct genocidal crusades on green-skinned things and are good, whereas in the real world they'd be up for war crimes charges. It also occurred in the first AP in the description of Sandpoint as far as I can determine. The outrage predicted didn't happen, possibly because Paizo predicted correctly their customers' maturity level.

I believe the war crimes charge is a lot more complicated than that my friend.

Yes we are all mature enough to know its just a game and it is fiction, but Paizo crossed into that shadowy area I think should be left to the gamers to flesh out.
Lets face it everyone, we play a game with Demons, Devils, Possession, ect, ect. We are not faint of heart when it comes to controversial subjects. The outrage if I can call it that is just gamers commenting on real world issues creeping into the campaign as a default, I hope I'm making myself clear?

Nobody is rioting or lining up for suicide missions! lol


Alice Margatroid wrote:

... Hannah? Really?

...

I guess Night Tea is a political statement too.

:)

I love the name! "Night Tea"! LOL.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The Catholic Church's exorcists would like to have a word with you about devil possession as a real world topic.


ewan cummins 325 wrote:
Alice Margatroid wrote:

... Hannah? Really?

...

I guess Night Tea is a political statement too.

:)

Not quite. Night Tea is a drug or poison- not a character. There is a clear difference. I think that Night Tea is a dubious and unnecessary addition to the equipment list, but it is not in your face and objectionable like the inclusion of a good aligned abortionist.

You asked about a hypotehtical evil aligned abortionist. I would actually be against that as well, although it would be harder to know if it should count as propaganda. Allow me to explain.

I'm not aware of anyone who claims that an evil person could NOT perform abortions, but a great many people do claim that abortion is murder and therefore an evil action. A good-aligned abortionist therfore seems calculated to offend a whole lot of people.

Now, you might argue that making her evil would have also been a politcal statement. Let us grant you that.

Why include abortionists in the game at all?

It does not fit the PG-13 feel they are supposedly going for in their products.

This is a prime example of the sort of thing that should be left out of the official books. It's way too controversial, and no matter how they handle it, they may offend a lot of people. We arem't just talking about lifestyle, we are talking about something millions of Americans consider to be murder. That's a big deal. I think Paizo would be most unwise to publish more NPCs like Hannah. One might be excused, but if a pattern is seen to develop, the reaction could be very bad.

YMMV

Well said.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thaaat's your problem:

*millions of Americans*

Paizo's customer base isn't limited to one country, one constitution and one Roe vs. Wade. The fact that you don't take that into the account pretty much tells where are you coming from and where are you going to.


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Aretas, my issue with your argument is that art imitates life. You want a fantasy RPG without real life issues? Well, that can't be done. For example, feminism. No matter how you construct things in your fantasy world, your world has just taken a stance on the real world issue of women's rights. You cannot avoid it in any way.

Furthermore, real life is where all the inspiration comes from. If you refuse to bring in real life issues, what can you bring in?


Asphere wrote:
Aretas wrote:
Asphere wrote:
Aretas wrote:

I believe its up to the DM/Players to decide where they want to take their game. Let us decide whether or not Harsk is doing Lem in the back of the wagon between dungeon crawls.

My suggestion would be for Paizo to spend more creative time making their books hold together and less time creating a politically correct, diversity utopia. Leave that to the players.

This doesn't make much sense to me. Simply noting that homosexuals exist in the Golarion setting is not an attempt to be politically correct. If that were true, and you believe in a god, then god was being politically correct by creating this Universe when he allowed the existence of homosexuals.

Homosexuality is a real sexual preference seen in nature...why shouldn't it be found in Golarion? To me saying it is up to the DM to decide whether they want homosexuals in Golarion is the same as saying that every human in Pathfinder should be white and it is up to the DM to decide if he wants to add black people.

Does anyone else find this entire thread amusing or am I just twisted?

Its up to the GROUP if they want Homosexual "content" in the game.

Leave God out of this please? I do not wish to get into a Theological discussion on the boards b/c i'm 100% certain I'll be flagged by the board mafia and then banned. I'll just say your wrong and you will understand one day. (Bait not taken)

I cannot with a clear mind equate homosexual activity to a racial/gender group. That is another topic I wish to stay away from for the same reason. What I will say is that equating it to womans suffrage and the civil rights movement is simply wrong.

On the topic, since I and my gaming group play in a traditional D&D setting based in a fantasy midevil Europe which is White and we are all a shade of Indo-European we just play our characters as White and assume NPC's are White.

Really man, you could do whatever you want with your character. Just find a group that wants

...

I don't want to get into a discussion between Human beings and animal Homosexuality. I believe its comparing apples to oranges. Please respect my opinion. I respect yours.

Sure homosexuality existed in midevil Europe, so did Asians, Blacks, Arabs, ect..ect..But in large party its a White, Lord of the Rings style setting. Yes the game has changed with all the diverse campaign settings but I believe I'm not alone to assume that the vast majority of people playing play in that fantasy midevil setting.


ewan cummins 325 wrote:
Alice Margatroid wrote:

Do you think that Bachelor Snuff is also "a dubious and unnecessary addition to the equipment list"?

You seem to be focusing on this "abortionist" issue, which suggests to me that it's you that has the political line to push, rather than anyone else. Burnt Offerings has been out for... how many years now? Has anyone ever had a problem with it before now?

Here's the relevant description about her in this regard:

"Hannah’s ironically the one to go to when either one wants to end a pregnancy or needs a midwife to aid in a birth; Hannah encourages all of the women she sees to carry to term, and advises the use of pinberry extract to young women as a way to prevent unwanted pregnancies from happening in the first place, but in cases where there’s no other option, her other services are discrete and confidential."

Is this really what you think is OMG CONTROVERSIAL and not PG-13? My advice: don't read Hook Mountain Massacre if that's how you think. :)

EDIT: Also, if you feel the need to flag something, please just flag it and move on. You realise you're encouraging him by responding, correct?

Bachelor Snuff is not an abortofacient, so there is no comparsion. Apples and oranges. I don't think it really needed to be on the list, though.

Now, as for your attempt to draw me into a real-world political debate (which I will not have here)...flagged for trolling.

LOL! Bachelor snuff! I wish the fantasy world overlapped with the real world on this one! Perhaps the snuff can be enchanted with a cure disease or resist disease like resist energy!

Contributor

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Removed some additional posts that were missed. Please keep it civil.


Quote:
Sure homosexuality existed in midevil Europe, so did Asians, Blacks, Arabs, ect..ect..But in large party its a White, Lord of the Rings style setting. Yes the game has changed with all the diverse campaign settings but I believe I'm not alone to assume that the vast majority of people playing play in that fantasy midevil setting.

What do you base this on? Surely not ogres. I personally use a fantasy analogue of North America with earlier colonization and colonists from both Europe and Asia. I love this setting, and I'd never want to excise the Native Americans, Asians, or Mesoamericans from it. That puts me outside your vast majority.

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